Why don't more women make the first move?

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First of all @ OP - whoever thought of that was genius, it seems like they're trying to break that trend and even if its one day out of four years its still a day where the excuse is made. I still don't know if that one's made its round to the states yet though.

My take on why its still like this:

1) Old social trends, while dead and gone, still haven't had their roads in our social structure washed away yet
2) Its probably still looked at as better or preferable, by women, for self-esteem if the guy asked albeit I get the impression past the age of 25 if they're still single practicality catches up
3) Its hard to ask someone out so in that sense if guys had gotten the pass for generations we'd still likely stick to our benefits if we could as well.
4) Guys are taught to roll things off better, if a girl shoots a guy down he feels it but he's taught to roll it off, women have a harder time doing this and, by the way public thought process goes, if a guy turns a girl down he essentially called her ugly - something a great many women (again, college age and younger) aren't equipped to think past since at that age its pass or fail rather than the possibility that one person interested in the other finds out that they were just too different and that it was for the better.


As for women just liking the upperhand for the sake of it - maybe again, under 25, but for the most part I get the impression that if their choices are impractical they suffer just as much as a guy who makes impractical choices; that includes staying so aloof or pretentious to the market that they price themselves out or never really try hard enough to figure out where they can cut weight, what are the most critical things they need vs. what they can compromise on. For either gender though that's just part of the maturation process though.

That said hope you guys and girls in the UK all have a busy leapyear's day!

I know where you are coming from with some of this. It's extremely annoying to discover that someone is only friendly because they're attracted to you. It undermines you as a person and is a little bit insulting. I suppose it is best to not take it personally, they have to react to the rejection somehow, and if creating distance is their way then let it be.

As for the who makes the first move thing, well that's just the hangover of a tradition is still alive and well in most parts of the world. Unfortunately, it is the way it is and no-one is to blame for it.

Exactly. I feel completely objectified by it. It makes me question how interesting a person I actually am, if men only want to know me when they're after a relationship. It's as if when they woke up from their feelings, they discovered I wasn't worth knowing.

Can't you kind of tell though? I mean if someone's following you around vs. enjoying a good conversation regardless, the kinds of things they want to try and do like almost force 'moments' rather than just let things go as they are, say hi and bye like its indifferent, etc..

Many women make the first move but the guy needs to be attractive enough in her eyes for her to want to make the first move on him.

"So why don't more women make the first move? Especially those who regularly claim there are no decent guys out there but continuously reject every offer they receive (i.e basically assuming anyone who shows interest isn't good enough for them and then they wonder why they're constantly single) surely they would be doing themselves a favour by pursuing the men that they actually do like? It should be remembered men are not mind readers, we can't always tell if somebody likes us."

There's a lot of truth to what Smudge is saying.

When women say there are no decent guys out there what they actually mean is that there are no guys that are going to meet her personal "requirements" or ideal list of what she wants.

She might say she wants a sensitive, thoughtful and caring guy but in her mind, she wants those traits in the "ideal" category. There is another category that must be satisfied first in order to be considered and that is the "non-negotiable" category and such things would generally include confidence, that she is aware of him as a male and also attracted to him to some extent, etc.

If a guy doesn't make the "non-negotiable" category (which is usually subconscious by the way), then she won't even see him as a viable option.

In closing, your question of "why don't more women make the first move?" is due to that subconscious decision making process in which the ability to approach a woman (without hiding your intentions or having ulterior motives) goes straight towards the assessment of how confident a man is. Women may give you a signal to approach or an opening, but the guy will have to be the one to actually make the first move if he wants to show her he can meet at least one of the requirements in that "non-negotiable" category.

If nobody meets their requirements that's their opinion (and their loss ultimately) but they shouldn't then complain about being single afterwards.

Lol, I never said they shouldn't complain, just why they won't make the first move.

The desire for a man or a relationship would still be there if she can't find a suitable guy. Much like a guys desire for a girl would still be there if he couldn't find a suitable woman.

Some shallow men don't, Erisad.



It might well be because they're not interested in you, or they wonder that you might be desperate, or they just don't know how to handle the situation.

Really? That's not my experience. Most of them gave me the, "let's just be friends" or some actually laughed at me. Apparently he was too hot for a fatass like me. Guys used to ask me out in high school as a joke. I, ironically, turned those as*holes down but next week I saw them sitting at the popular kids table so maybe humiliating fat girls is a path to popularity.

The only men who accepted my offer were people who ended up cheating on me or breaking up with me because their mother told them to. Basically after that I became scared to ask men out as apparently I don't know how to pick them or maybe only messed up men would accept an offer from a girl who was overweight. I don't know why it ended up so badly for me.

I guess it's a traditional thing that men tend to take the lead in that. It seems downright weird to me in these days of supposed gender equality. I guess marriage benefits the woman more than the man, at least financially. She would get much stronger rights to his pension and his wealth if he were to die first. I suppose the man would benefit similarly if the woman were the main breadwinner, but that doesn't happen much. So it's odd that women haven't traditionally proposed marriage. Maybe it comes from the times when the law said that the wife's wealth should be transferred to the husband. But that law has been dead for a very long time and there's no change in people's behaviour.

My experiences are mixed. For marriage itself, during my life so far, 5 women have discussed marriage with me. In every case, the woman was first to indicate that she would like to marry me, and the first to raise the subject.

But when it comes to starting relationships, I've always had to make the first move.....it's nearly always been a non-verbal sexual advance (not necessarily for full-on sex, it's sometimes been kissing and cuddling)......they've NEVER ONCE made such an advance to me, though they were often giving out strong indirect signs that I'd be OK if I did that. During relationships, partners have often approached me for kisses and cuddles, but it's been pretty rare that they've made stronger sexual advances than that. They've sometimes dropped hints ("ho hum, I'm tired, I want to go to bed") and kissed me so much that I felt it was probably an invitation to go further, and I once had a request for more, and once or twice they've been more explicit, but mostly they haven't.

Moreover, in the run-up to the relationship, most of them have not only failed to make the first direct move, they've often done the reverse for a while and put obstacles in my way. How many of those obstacles were genuine, I don't know. I never met a woman yet who admitted playing hard to get, though a lot of what they've done that resembles that has had an unlikely feel to it. I've usually found that if I just keep calm and keep approaching them, most of the apparent disinterest (or interest in other men) mysteriously evaporated.

I don't know why there's still this presumption that the guy makes the first move in the mating game. I guess it's to do with the ancient social system where the man was physically stronger and women were basically seen as objects or chattels to be bought. I suppose the man would naturally make the first move because he was the only one with that kind of authority. Definitely I've lost out a few times because I tried to respect the woman's overt wishes and not invade her or be presumptuous.

I don't understand their secrecy about it either. I can see how a test of my mettle might need to be administered without my knowing what was going on (naturally if I know it's just a straw man or a pile of BS about being too busy to see me, I will have a head start and could feel more confident than normal, thus appearing more resilient and eager than I might if I didn't know it was a test), but you'd think the buggers would 'fess up afterwards.........I really don't like having to live with the idea that the woman I'm committing myself to for life has been manipulative and dishonest with me and will deny it till she dies. But I never met one who would come clean, or even give a plausible lie to explain away that weird awkward phase they so often go through. When I asked, they just looked uncomfortable and tended to clam up.

That's fine, but I'm saying that women do approach men, and it isn't always received well. Especially the "desperate" part - if men would like women to approach them, and women do so, how does it benefit the situation for the man to consider her "desperate"? That just makes no sense to me. You can't have it both ways: you either have to accept that men HAVE to do the approaching (and thus any woman who does so is "unnatural" and "desperate") or you can choose to have men or women do the approaching, with no ulterior judgments.

Honestly, I think in my case it's been more that they weren't available (and I didn't know it, or else I wouldn't have approached them) or they didn't know how to handle the situation/weren't interested in crossing that line with me, yet. I'm also talking in broader terms, too, like me initiating physical contact once I was already in a relationship. Some men are horrified when women do that.

I can't speak to how attractive/unattractive I am to people, that's personal choice.

{Shrug} Just my experience. Sometimes it's difficult to discuss things objectively, here.

yep - i am extremely forward and i have had a lot of rejection for a few different reasons, but one major reason is because many men simply do not want a woman to be that aggressive (they have said so, in various ways).

the fact is, if they wanted me in most cases they probably would have asked already, so if i turn the tables i am putting them in an awkward position. men don't want just ANY women asking them out, they want CERTAIN women asking them out.

anyways, culturally, men are expected to be aggressors and women are expected to be more passive. when those roles are reversed, it seems to make the majority of people of both genders feel uncomfortable.

Fixed

Last edited by Trigas on 29 Feb 2012, 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

How do you mean? I can certainly tell when a guy fancies me, and I can tell when they're manipulating their answers to smooth things along. If you're saying what I think you're saying, then yes, it has happened a couple of times that I've met a guy who didn't purposely choose or manipulate his answers to suit mine, and that I've had great conversations with. They both found a girlfriend in the end and stopped contacting me though. It is extremely rare for me to find a guy who is genuinely interested in the content of what I say. It's frustrating.

As I said earlier.. I'd never consider a woman desperate for asking me out. I'd actually consider her to have pretty good taste.. The problem is I seldom get asked out by women whom I find interesting/attractive. I'm sorry if that makes me one of the people whom Erisad has experienced. It isn't a matter of wishing Ill Will on these women or anything like that, in fact I really hope they find some one who appreciates them for who they are.. It just isn't going to be me. One of these days I'll either find my perfect person, or I won't. But I'm not desperate either, so I don't plan to settle. As I've said again and again, that isn't fair to either partner.