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Why don't more women make the first move?

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ValentineWiggin
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29 Feb 2012, 12:18 pm

smudge wrote:
It is extremely rare for me to find a guy who is genuinely interested in the content of what I say. It's frustrating.


I've been rejected by two men in the space of a week, for being "too intellectual", and "too politically-focused".
8O :(


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Daemonic-Jackal
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29 Feb 2012, 12:18 pm

Tequila wrote:
It might well be because they're not interested in you, or they wonder that you might be desperate, or they just don't know how to handle the situation.


Isn't the reason men don't know how to handle the situation because the women don't do the asking out often enough?

ValentineWiggin wrote:
I've been rejected by two men in the space of a week, for being "too intellectual", and "too politically-focused".
8O :(


Sounds like the guys knew they were extremely out of their depth especially for saying you are "too intellectual"

As for being "too politically focused" well that's a strange one. I've never understood why some women consider it so important that their partners must have 'similar political thoughts'. But then I've never really cared much for politics, when it comes to the UK, all political parties are as bad as each other as far as I am concerned.


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Last edited by Daemonic-Jackal on 29 Feb 2012, 12:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

hyperlexian
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29 Feb 2012, 12:23 pm

rabbittss, that was exactly my point, above. when women ask men out, it's usually because the guy doesn't ask. and he doesn't ask... because he's not interested in the first place. so in many cases there's not much point in a girl asking a guy out.

sometimes it does work, because maybe the guy just didn't think of a female in that light, so when she signals interest it makes him notice her in a new way. or he could be shy or insecure. but that is an exception - i have been rejected A LOT, and been told that my forwardness is frankly scary. i am no more aggressive than an average guy, but that is more than some men seem to be able to handle.


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mv
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29 Feb 2012, 12:27 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
rabbittss, that was exactly my point, above. when women ask men out, it's usually because the guy doesn't ask. and he doesn't ask... because he's not interested in the first place. so in many cases there's not much point in a girl asking a guy out.

sometimes it does work, because maybe the guy just didn't think of a female in that light, so when she signals interest it makes him notice her in a new way. or he could be shy or insecure. but that is an exception - i have been rejected A LOT, and been told that my forwardness is frankly scary. i am no more aggressive than an average guy, but that is more than some men seem to be able to handle.


And this was my point. Well said!



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29 Feb 2012, 12:28 pm

It's nothing more than societal norms. No other reason. According to current Western society standards, the man is "supposed" to make the first moves and most people adhere to this as gospel. You can argue all you want about all the perceptions that go along with it but it all hinges on the base premise.

(This probably applies many Eastern societies too since many of them don't encourage women to do anything at all but I don't know much about those so I'm limiting my comment to Western.)


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Last edited by myth on 29 Feb 2012, 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ValentineWiggin
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29 Feb 2012, 12:29 pm

Daemonic-Jackal wrote:
I've never understood why women consider it so important that their partners must have 'similar political thoughts'. But then I've never really cared much for politics, when it comes to the UK, all political parties are as bad as each other as far as I am concerned.


a. Commonalities of political beliefs as a mating preference are not characteristic of women per se, nor uncharacteristic of men-
it is a preference like any other that some have and some don't
b. Insofar as political beliefs correlate with ethical worldviews and preferred lifestyles,
they can be very important- some people can't connect with those who have radically-different moral views
c. I'M not the one who rejected someone for having one political persuasion or the other;
I'M the one who GOT rejected for being too "into" political issues AT ALL

Daemonic-Jackal wrote:
I've never understood why some women consider it so important that their partners must have 'similar political thoughts'. But then I've never really cared much for politics, when it comes to the UK, all political parties are as bad as each other as far as I am concerned.


Thank you for adding this modifier- I'd say some women do it for the same reasons some men do-
though what those reasons are is whole 'nother topic.


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Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 29 Feb 2012, 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

smudge
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29 Feb 2012, 12:29 pm

rabbittss wrote:
mv wrote:
That's fine, but I'm saying that women do approach men, and it isn't always received well. Especially the "desperate" part - if men would like women to approach them, and women do so, how does it benefit the situation for the man to consider her "desperate"? That just makes no sense to me. You can't have it both ways: you either have to accept that men HAVE to do the approaching (and thus any woman who does so is "unnatural" and "desperate") or you can choose to have men or women do the approaching, with no ulterior judgments.


The problem is I seldom get asked out by women whom I find interesting/attractive.


Are you sure it's that you're not put off women who ask you out in the first place? I realise I don't know you, but with practically all guys I've met, they don't seem to know what they want (as mv said). Having said that though, I think women do the same thing - moan about why they can't find the "right guy", then they find the "right guy" but there's no attraction as there's no chasing. There's always something really special about a person you have to work hard to get.



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29 Feb 2012, 12:36 pm

mv wrote:
That's fine, but I'm saying that women do approach men, and it isn't always received well. Especially the "desperate" part - if men would like women to approach them, and women do so, how does it benefit the situation for the man to consider her "desperate"? That just makes no sense to me. You can't have it both ways: you either have to accept that men HAVE to do the approaching (and thus any woman who does so is "unnatural" and "desperate") or you can choose to have men or women do the approaching, with no ulterior judgments.


Depends on the manner of the approaching. The same applies with men approaching women too.



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29 Feb 2012, 12:37 pm

Tequila wrote:
mv wrote:
That's fine, but I'm saying that women do approach men, and it isn't always received well. Especially the "desperate" part - if men would like women to approach them, and women do so, how does it benefit the situation for the man to consider her "desperate"? That just makes no sense to me. You can't have it both ways: you either have to accept that men HAVE to do the approaching (and thus any woman who does so is "unnatural" and "desperate") or you can choose to have men or women do the approaching, with no ulterior judgments.


Depends on the manner of the approaching. The same applies with men approaching women too.

that isn't the only reason some men don't like it - often the approach is irrelevant.


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29 Feb 2012, 12:38 pm

Daemonic-Jackal wrote:
But then I've never really cared much for politics, when it comes to the UK, all political parties are as bad as each other as far as I am concerned.


You can have political thoughts but be effectively outside the political system. A lot of people are very interested in politics but often don't bother voting (or vote reluctantly, often for one of the main three or UKIP).



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29 Feb 2012, 12:38 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
that isn't the only reason some men don't like it - often the approach is irrelevant.


True, some men prefer submissive women. Some women prefer submissive men. What are you at?



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29 Feb 2012, 12:39 pm

Tequila wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
that isn't the only reason some men don't like it - often the approach is irrelevant.


True, some men prefer submissive women. Some women prefer submissive men. What are you at?

that the situation is not that simple.


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Tequila
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29 Feb 2012, 12:39 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
that the situation is not that simple.


By Jove! She's got it! ;)



Last edited by Tequila on 29 Feb 2012, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Daemonic-Jackal
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29 Feb 2012, 12:40 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Daemonic-Jackal wrote:
I've never understood why some women consider it so important that their partners must have 'similar political thoughts'. But then I've never really cared much for politics, when it comes to the UK, all political parties are as bad as each other as far as I am concerned.

a. Commonalities of political beliefs as a mating preference are not characteristic of women per se, nor uncharacteristic of men-
it is a preference like any other that some have and some don't
b. Insofar as political beliefs correlate with ethical worldviews and preferred lifestyles,
they can be very important- some people can't connect with those who have radically-different moral views
c. I'M not the one who rejected someone for having one political persuasion or the other;
I'M the one who GOT rejected for being too "into" political issues AT ALL


Thank you for adding this modifier- I'd say some women do it for the same reasons some men do-
though what those reasons are is whole 'nother topic.


Fair enough, it makes much more sense now that you've explained it. I don't mind political discussions on occasion and am willing to have debates every now and again, providing it doesn't take over somebody's life.

Tequila wrote:
You can have political thoughts but be effectively outside the political system. A lot of people are very interested in politics but often don't bother voting (or vote reluctantly, often for one of the main three or UKIP).


I get that completely, it's just no big deal to me. If someone had political views different to mine then I certainly wouldn't consider that a dealbreaker by any means (unless they were racist/sexist/homophobic which are traits that you wouldn't want in a partner anyway)


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Last edited by Daemonic-Jackal on 29 Feb 2012, 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ValentineWiggin
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29 Feb 2012, 12:40 pm

Tequila wrote:
Daemonic-Jackal wrote:
But then I've never really cared much for politics, when it comes to the UK, all political parties are as bad as each other as far as I am concerned.


You can have political thoughts but be effectively outside the political system. A lot of people are very interested in politics but often don't bother voting


+ 1


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29 Feb 2012, 12:41 pm

Tequila wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
that the situation is not that simple.


By Jove! She's got it! ;)

you made a statement that didn't cover the whole scope of the situation.


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