Getting the right mindset : The First step

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nobody has needs when it comes to sex with other people. sex is a desire. and friends can offer intimacy.

i think that some people would be best off coming to terms with being alone. coming to terms with it and being happy with it would mean that they could lead a happy and fulfilling life alone. nothing has to be a final decision, but it could definitely help people cope with reality. fact is, a certain number of people will not ever date or marry. and some will date or marry but still end up alone. learning to live with that could allow a person to lead a good life.


people have given all different kinds of advice on the forum. everything from asking out 100 people a day to doing CBT to reading books on the opposite sex to making friends to being a jerk in the bar to.... well, everything. you're not seeing it clearly.


it isn't the same advice. it is different in every thread. there are some common themes, but those themes don't come up in every thread.

I've spent my life in one relationship or another, this is the first time I've been single for longer than 12 months since I started being interested in girls and it's awesome. I have absolutely no responsibilities to anyone other than myself. I don't know if I'd even bother, again. If you think you're missing something, think again.

I'm trying a different approach. I want to get you angry. It's a form of tough love.

If you're convinced you're an abject failure and nothing good will ever come of it, then the only thing to do is give up. To embrace your uselessness and turn it into an art form. And the point is - you won't do it. No matter how much you declare your life hopeless, some bloody minded part of you won't give up.

This is exactly how (some) drug addicts and alcoholics turn their lives around. You can be nice to them forever and nothing will ever change, because they have no reason to change. Their lives have to get worse. Much worse. I'm talking loss of family and friends, of job, of home, of everything. If they don't reach rock bottom, they won't change. It's not love and compassion that brings them back, though it'll be needed in spades when they start coming back. That first step is anger. Anger at themselves, their addictions and the mess that their lives are in. Not everyone makes it to that stage, and some unfortunates decide to go the other way and quit in a more permanent fashion.

You're not (as far as I know) an alcoholic or drug addict. But the mental patterns are very similar. You're dependent on failure. You expect it, to the point that you don't know how to cope with success. You're subconsciously sabotaging your own efforts because part of you wants to fail. That is not going to change until you change it - and that means getting angry.

You could be a great guy if you let yourself. So could MXH, I'm pretty sure, though I've less to go on there. But all the loving kindness in the world isn't going to change you.



No, you breed confidence from within. You are not nothing. You have skills and knowledge and personality and dreams and thoughts and a life. You can do pretty much anything - but you need to put the effort in. Perhaps you don't have many skills yet, but have confidence in the ones you do have. One of them is a skill at learning new skills and improving your existing ones. Do that, and you have more to be confident about.

Don't measure your success by other people. I learnt to tie my shoelaces at 16. I can bake some fantastic shortbread biscuits, and that's a success for me. I'm not declaring myself a failure because I'll never win Masterchef.

My I add Step 0?

For above 24 adults, this should be done before this Step 1.

Step 0: Getting the necessary equipment:

- Learn how to drive and get a car (if you live in a place with a poor public transportation)
-Get a job
-Get a place of your own, independently. (a must for those living in the west)


I am saying this because i'v noticed a lot of guys here wanting a gf before having any of those. Lacking those would reduce your chances by like 80% at least, then good luck in getting a single date

wasn't trying to be a dick when I asked that. sorry if that's how I came across. Was genuinely curious why someone who seems to believe he truly has no chance at all in the romance dept would torture himself by continuing to read these threads. if I was mistaken about your belief in your chances, then I apologize. but, in a lot of ways, you do come across as someone who's already given up.



it is generally similar advice in most threads, I'll grant that. perhaps that is because that is what has worked for members here. no one expects you to just "get some confidence." learning to be more confident is very helpful, but also a very personal thing. sorry, but a bunch of internet people just aren't going to know you well enough to be able to give you personally tailored advice regarding this. there have been some suggestions though. some have advised starting a workout regimen to raise confidence, I could see that working well for a lot of guys. in the past, I've advised approaching people and attempting to start more conversations in day-to-day life, the idea being that you will slowly come to realize the insignificance of being rejected, and slowly get better and better at it, both of which should serve to raise confidence. if you don't think any of the advice given will help you, I won't argue with you about that. but it's all the advice anyone has.



was I making stupid comments? wouldn't be surprised, I say stupid s**t all the time. seriously, if I did, please tell me exactly what I said. but I didn't perceive any part of this thread as being about bringing new ideas to the table. I saw Wolfheart try to refine some old ideas, give concrete advice on how to build confidence, and I saw people rejecting those ideas without offering any others.

The idea behind the "shotgun approach" is to get to know lots of women, that way you can make an informed decision about which ones you think you may be compatible with. It is not about hitting on a bunch of random women and settling for the first one that says "yes." It doesn't work unless you are willing to quickly cut loose the ones that don't seem like a good match.

Personally, I got all those things AFTER getting a relationship (I would have struggled to get them before). But I was under 24 at the time, so I'm not sure what that actually proves...

YOU ARE HOMOSEXUAL anyways !

Sorry, i had to say it!!

You can't compare oranges to apples.

Please, don't mislead the heterosexual guys here by talking about your experiences without mentioning your sexuality! You date guys, they date girls, guys and girls are kinda two worlds somehow in the dating realm.

I've found his advice to be very sound, and I'm hetero. Ultimately, the qualities that most women and men, gay or straight, value are remarkably similar. If we were just talking about how to get casual sex, then yeah a gay guy's experiences and advice might not be applicable to straight men. But since we are, presumably, talking about finding LTRs, I see no problem with the advice he is giving.

I do concur that being positive has a much higher likelihood of success than being negative.

Unfortunately, even when I am as positive as can be things don't always go the way I want, and I become easily frustrated, and overall, life (society) seems like too much work to be worth it.

I am however good at computer games, and so I play those instead. If society wanted me to play their little games, they should have made them more fun for me. -This goes for every woman I've ever met, every person really.

Life is unfair and it's going to throw blows and disappointment at you, no matter what. Being able to discern that negativity is going to help you to recover faster and move on. If you get rejected, what good can come from it by over analysing and letting it define you as a failure? Having the ability to pick yourself up and carry on under fire will help you.

I agree, the employment part and finding a girlfriend run synonymously together because they both require displaying desirable traits and creating a good first impression. Having your own place is a sign of independence which is definitely an attractive quality and can help create a good first impression when it comes to dating.

I'm afraid to get angry. Everytime I get angry, I lash out and hurt people that may actually care about me. That's why all my anger is directed inward... to avoid hurting others. I'm the failure, not my parents, not my family, not anyone else, so I'm the only one that should feel that failure...

I disagree on your "rock bottom comments" though... Love and compassion are what I need right now. Love and compassion are what allow me to feel confidence in myself. Love and compassion are what make life worth living. And I haven't truly felt either in years. My family doesn't have any to offer me, and my dream of establishing a family of my own has fallen flat on its face.


Everyone has capacity in one form or another. I won't disagree with you on that point. I can fix computers. I'm good at editing photos, video, and audio. So you don't see me saying that i have no value in those fields. The problem is i'm a failure in the field that actually matters: interacting with other people. I can't get a girlfriend. I can't maintain the friends I have, nor am I able to make new ones. Every time I open my mouth, something awkward comes out.

Same here. Completely. Until about age 16 I was prone to lash out when under stress. I didn't usually hurt anyone besides myself - stuff got broken, but even in the middle of a meltdown I couldn't actually hit anyone. Not that they knew that, of course - it must have terrified them. And when the storm passed, I'd be an emotional wreck. I learnt to direct that anger inwards, developed a lot of self-hatred and developed a chronic depression that still hits me occasionally even now. There were times in my teenage years I'd think about suicide. Never got to the point of following up on them, but considering the various ways it could be done.

Getting angry isn't the same as those meltdowns. It's directed, controlled. It isn't about yelling and hitting stuff, but about resistance - you say no to the things you don't want, and fight for the things you do want. The yelling and violence doesn't usually help matters and is a symptom of losing control. I struggle to get angry myself, for the same reasons - I'm terrified of losing control.



You don't understand. Love and compassion are indeed what you need - but not from other people. Not yet. It's like trying to feed an anorexic. Yes, they need to eat because they're starving to death, but they won't accept food from anyone else. It has to be their decision.

You need to love YOURSELF. This is very hard to do from where you are now, but it's essential. Until you love yourself, you won't accept it from anywhere else.



That's a good start. You're good with computers - can you program? If not, do you think you could learn to? Certainly you've learnt to use some rather involved software.
The trick is to use what you know and adapt it to deal with others. Think of other people as software - given their general reliability, possibly from Microsoft. A lot of software has glitches that you need to learn how to work around. Interaction with people is not that far removed - it's a case of learning the commands, the capabilities, the little quirks, etc.

I learnt to interact with people through books and films and TV series. I've always had a good memory for TV programmes that interest me, so while I can't even remember the characters in Eastenders I can remember whole chunks of scripts from Red Dwarf. I used the dialogue in these sources as a point of reference, using phrases and expressions from things I'd seen and read.

It was, to start with, pretty awful. But that was okay. It was more interaction than I'd achieved before, and people already thought I was odd, so if I completely misjudged it and baffled someone, I wasn't really losing anything. Over time I refined and added to my store of phrases and concepts, and my conversations got better. I picked up jokes and innuendo, and eventually learned when to use them (and, more importantly, when not to).

Like learning anything, you'll get it wrong a lot. Don't beat yourself up over that. This is where embracing failure is the thing to do - failing is good, because not failing means not even trying.

So now you're covertly claiming that im a terrible guy? Really dude, you're not helping your cause by being a dick to those you try to "help" by saying what theyve heard, tried and failed at before.

I don't think you're a terrible guy. I just know Toady a little better through these boards than you, that's all. But I do get the impression that Toady feels he's a failure in himself and that you're angry at everyone else. It's much easier to assume everything is someone else's fault and deny responsibility, but then nothing ever changes.