is this consider friendzone

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See, before she did this I would have said you were right. Because she WAS the exception, she was the female friend who listened when I had relationship trouble and tried to help me, and made me think that I had just had run ins with a few nasty users. But then she did exactly the same thing all the girls she badmouthed, she even threatened to beat one of them up, had done to me.. except she did it on such a monumentally bigger scale that it makes what the rest did look like amateur hour. None of them told me they loved me, none of them told me they wanted to spend the rest of their lives with me, none of them went so far as us going to get sized for rings together.

The thing is, I didn't feel like I was working hard at all, I could tell how much she appreciated our connection, and though for most of the time we knew each other, even when there was no sex involved, she was exceptionally emotionally supportive of me. Going to visit my mom in the hospital, going out of her way to help me if she could. That's the part that's so immensely frustrating, because I'm not sure if it was just her immaturity that caused it, or if she was really as manipulative as it now feels. That's exactly the problem though, is that from now on, I won't simply give people I meet a bank of trust like I have in the past. Now they start with none and have to earn it.. where as before they were simply given it automatically by dent of me not having any reason not to trust them. Simply put in the last 2 years, EVERY single female who I've come across except for her attempted to use me or otherwise string me along with the promise of a relationship in order to get either emotional or financial (most of them were financial) support out of me.. I would have trusted her with my life.. and she still betrayed me. It's pretty f****n' bad that I'm getting to the point now where I feel the only woman on the planet I can trust is my mom.

I know that's not fair, but perception is a very difficult thing to work around.

well, to be fair, you weren't exactly nice about women in general before you had this relationship. so don't try to pin it on her, as though she suddenly made you distrust women. anyone can go back through your posting history and see what i'm talking about. yes, she was pretty horrible to you, but you can't rewrite history like she made you think badly of women for the first time - you went into this with some preconceptions that weren't based on a bad relationship.

and now you're saying she was actually a good friend for part of it... sounds like you haven't sorted out all of your emotions yet. you're saying it's one way, then the other. perhaps you're not sure how you feel yet.

My feelings about women are based entirely on my interactions with women. Growing up, most of my friends were female, I was raised in a house full of women, and I didn't have a negative thing to say about them until I started trying to date them. You're trying to blame me for things other people have done to me, Again. But see, that's just as good for you to say "one only has to look at your posting history"... well You have a Blame the Victim streak a mile wide which is in evidence EVERY TIME someone says something you don't agree with. You've done nothing but Assume how I feel about women from the moment I first started here because I don't allow users to keep using me.. and then expect them to actually.. gasp.. be held responsible for their actions. So long as it has to do with women, you seem to take the stance that it's NEVER her fault and she NEVER did anything wrong.. no matter what. And to make matters worse, now you're implying that I was some how responsible for my ex-friend dumping me so she could go f**k a drug addict... since clearly I had so much to gain from that.

She was an exception to my interactions from the get go.. which is precisely what made her so important to me. I know pretty much how I feel about this, is that for the first time in a long time I found a woman who wasn't, at least on first sight, a user, and who treated me like a true friend, who then betrayed me so she could go have sex with a loser drug addict following her falling off the wagon herself. It makes me feel pretty goddamn worthless, and on top of that makes me feel like I let her down by not still being her friend regardless of what she did to me. But i'm not about to martyr myself to make sure she doesn't get into too much trouble..

That's the only part I'm conflicted about. I don't want to think that the person who was my friend was ultimately responsible for this. I don't want to believe she lied to me, and I don't want to believe that I really meant so little to her. But unfortunately I can't come to any other conclusions.. this leads to conflict.. either I have to accept that she really didn't care about me from the outset.. and just used me.. and was doing so even when she didn't ask for anything... or that the opposite was true... and she simply made a ruinously bad impulsive mistake which destroyed our ability to be friends... and thought that I was going to be able to deal with it emotionally and still be her friend. If that's the case then it only makes me feel more guilty for failing to live up to such a herculean task.

Last edited by rabbittss on 18 Jan 2013, 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nope, i don't blame victims. do you consider yourself a victim of abuse? it seems you are a bit unclear on that still.

i am just pointing out the fact that your opinions about women didn't suddenly arise since this relationship, but are evidently a big part of your difficulties going back quite a long time. in fact, almost exactly a year ago, we had an enlightening conversation about how you would only talk to women if you were interested in dating them (you refused to talk to women for friendship purposes). it's interesting to go back and read that, and then to see how you complain about something like the "friendzone". but.... giving you the benefit of the doubt... you must have changed your opinions a lot since then if you decided you were willing to be friends with this girl even if she wasn't having sex with you.

I consider myself a victim of betrayal more than abuse... but if we had continued to "Be friends" following the betrayal I would have been leaving myself open to future abuse.

I think if you go back and read my posts from a year ago.. you'll notice that I often referenced a female friend. Well that was this girl. We tried dating way back then but decided it wouldn't work out because she wasn't interested in a long term thing and I was.. we Mutually decided not to follow that road.. and it worked out really well.. until she changed her mind and decided she wanted to have a long term relationship with me. And no, even she started out as "potential dating material", We tried going out, we knew we had different goals, we decided to be friends, and we did that BEFORE I started posting here, and she gave me a Hell of a lot better advice about women than you or any of the other people on this website did.

Unfortunately it's the people who you let in closest who are most easily able to slip a knife between your ribs, and she proved that in spectacular style.

from the sounds of it, you've really been through the wringer with this woman. it also sounds like you don't know all of your feelings yet, and in some ways you're still attached to her. like, you think badly of her but if anyone else says something bad you kind of defend her. nothing wrong with that, i think that it's just a side effect of being deeply attached to someone and being uncertain exactly where you stand and where to go forward. she must have really pulled you in close and really torn you apart, and i am sorry she did that to you.

Worms...yummy worms....

I bet they taste like chicken.

Do you think they taste good with Soya sauce?

[img][800:508]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_u9MGXhwr15w/TJQCSf5UdCI/AAAAAAAABzY/9AQ4fwq32LM/s1600/can-of-worms.jpg[/img]

I'm sorry to hear that, rabbittss. A similar thing happened to me last year. I was online friends with this girl for about 2 years, and about a couple months after we first "met" we'd actually discussed possibly dating if we ever met. Fast forward through me losing contact with her (I became homeless for a time) and her marrying her baby's dad and then getting divorced, and us reconnecting, and the possibility of us dating came up again. For a while we were not quite friends but not quite in a relationship. Over time she seemed to become bored of me, and decided I wasn't worth anything to her, which led to her humiliating me online, and us having a big argument, which led to us not talking for about 3 months. To make matters worse, she stopped sending me updates on her daughter, and became friends with her ex again (the same one she divorced for being abusive). At this point, I figured that maybe she thought that guy was better than me, and she still wasn't talking to me, so I was going to delete her. Something kept me from doing it, though. Then came the final insult, when she ended up with a guy who she swore up and down she'd never end up with. And what a big surprise it was that this guy was someone similar to her ex. So I said to hell with it and deleted her. Haven't heard from her since, thankfully.

Hyperlexian, I think that your definition of 'friends zone' is different. It could be its a difference of male vs female perspective.

My definition of friends zone is exactly what Rabits outlined. I have gone through the exact same experience he did very recently. Rabits really explained it well and in full detail how it is.

The thing is, from my perspective, being friend zoned is not something the girl does maliciously. Its just how things are. In our case, the girl really liked and enjoyed being with us and there was a deep emotional attachment from both sides... and the girl knowing perfectly well that we love her and want to be more than just a supportive friend...but it just happened than on her end that attachment did not extend to actually committing to us (become a couple, sexually, emotionally,etc) because (and this is my observation only) of the 'nice guy' issue:

Too nice, supportive, understanding.... in her mind we become the male version of a BFF with extra benefits (going out, expenses,etc). They don't find the alpha male dominant behavior that 'turns them on' so they jump at whatever guy that gives that to them even if that guy is an abusive criminal or such... once they get hurt they come back to us and the cycle continues. That is the curious thing too... its practically a highly predictable pattern that these girls always fall for the abusive and up-to-no-good types.

What I have noticed about this notion that women who are less interested in the 'bad boy' type after a certain age is not necessarily true. To say a women will go for a 'nice guy' once they hit a certain age is not necessarily true either. There is a difference between being the 'nice guy' and stepping up to be a man, and the same goes for the 'bad boy'. Ultimately women are more attracted to what they feel is a real man. Any attraction or emotional feeling for the 'nice guy' or 'bad boy' will be forgotten about when the woman truly finds what they are looking for. I don't know what the 'bad boy' will do but the 'nice guy' will likely blame everything on circumstances beyond his control due to whatever insecurity they have. This ultimately turns the girl off and I can assure you she will not keep in touch with the 'nice guy' for that reason.

Rabbits and DialA. Based on your stories given, the circumstances are definitely beyond your control and I applaud the effort to get rid of the negative feelings though. They obviously went with whatever feeling they had and obviously didn't care for yours. Communicating that this behaviour towards you (in regards to your feelings) as unacceptable was appropriate. Any judgment has the potential to destroy an entire friendship and possibly destroy yourselves since your ego can't let go of the attachment.
If there is anything I learned about things from before, communicating what isn't acceptable rather than being judgmental will set me free. I have to remember that the girl will not appreciate feeling I was being too hard on them for the actions they take though. They know the consequences for their actions as it is and being hard on them will for sure push them away from whatever friendship was left between the both of us. but they of course have to respect the decision I make in regards to my feelings. I know how I feel when people get judgmental towards me.

That's effectively it. I try not to complain about things which are legitimately my fault since I am the one most able to fix them.. sometimes things just happen beyond your control and all you can do is complain about them.. I don't believe in simply shrugging your shoulders and getting on with it.. some inequities deserve a bit of rumination.. cause they need to be figured out how to advance around the roadblocks they present. I'll be the first to tell you I don't fit the "Nice guy" mold. I'm usually an extremely harsh critic of people but never to the person I'm going out with.. (which is, playing to stereotype, something she loved).. but I'm mostly hard on myself because only by being hard on my self and requiring the most of my self can I keep moving forward. I am nice to people I know, I hold doors open and I put thought into presents and I like doing spontaneously nice things for people.. but I'd be the last to say I was a "Nice guy".. it just so happened that the guy she ran off with is a decidedly.. well.. not even just "Not nice" but Dangerous and drug addicted guy. I've been in contact with his ex-girlfriend who basically has been telling me horror stories of what he is like when he gets strung out on pills and so at this point I'm more afraid for my ex than I am angry at her. She's a stupid little girl who made a stupid impulsive choice but the last thing I want to happen is for some pill head to take a swing at her or put her in the hospital.

here's a better explanation than i could give as to why the friend zone isn't a real thing, and why protesting that you're stuck there realllly doesn't reflect too well on a person:


http://leastlikely.net/the-friend-zone- ... re-is-why/

in reality, if a person's friendship isn't a prize unto itself, don't be friends with them. in fact, i would argue that if it is some sort of purgatory to be stuck as a friend with a person, maybe you shouldn't be pursuing any sort of relationship with them at all!! !

I always thought the term was gender-inclusive. :/

The only scenario I can think of it being used in a sexist fashion is if the person in question applies it to all girls (or guys, I guess) they meet, instead of just ones they are attracted to/are interested in.

using it in a gender-inclusive way doesn't make it valid.

I that there a difference between actual female friend and a ''friendzone'' female friends.
The average female friends act like a friend.
where a friendzone female friends, act more like a girlfriend.

but who do have guys who do have crushes on their female friends ( I have before)
but their female friends only view them as friends only, and the female friend
has no idea the guy has ever had a crush on her.

in my case, I think my female friend, knew I like her but
she act like a regular friend and she didn't do the whole ''emonitional talk''
where she tell me how ''sweet I am'' and ''how much she care for me''
and how ''Im such a nice guy'' and all that stuff. and we never went on ''quasi dates''
(this was 10 years ago) and we weren't like close friends, either.