The effect of looks

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Brain and brawn aren´t mutually exclusive either. Most stupid people I know who´ve worked out (you´re average IQ 85 loudmouth who dropped out, started smoking at 12 and is happily oblivious to his own stupidity) have no dicipline whatsoever and seem to think that just bench pressing and bicep curling with a crappy technique is a good way to exercise. Of course, they don´t eat enough protein, they eat too much junk food, they continue to get wasted every week--with the result being that they give up in a matter of three months.

Bodybuilding is more than lifting weights. You need knowledge on how to create a workout routine specifically for your body type, a strict diet with knowledge about what´s good for you and above all dicipline. None of the above are found in your typical loudmouthed dropout who works as an asskisser at the warehouse, your typical wannabe gangster cruising in his 17 year old Ford Probe or your typical inbred hick who eats roadkill in his trailer.

Ronnie Coleman has an IQ of almost two standard deviations above the norm and a degree in economics. Nasser el-Sonbaty has a master´s degree in history and speaks seven languages. I´ve bought proteins from the former strongest man in Norway (Arild Haugen) before; off the television screen, he actully seemed both friendly and intelligent. Lastly, Frank Zane holds a master´s degree in chemistry and a bachelor´s degree in psychology.

b9, I'd thumbs-up your whole post, if I could.

Mods, can we have a "notworthy" smiley? Pretty-please?

i should that some people find others physically attractive only if their personalities are attractive first, so in that sense physical attractivenes is less shallow.

you CAN be an intelligent or educated bodybuilder, but it is not necessary to be one. there is no known or demonstrated correlation between bodybuilding success and education or intelligence. simple research into such programs can be done by *anyone* with a basic education. they may not choose to take such a narcissistic path, but they could.

I've never understood this notion, though it does make sense to me on some level. There's no way I can get to the personality if the appearance is (for me) off-putting or uninteresting.

What would be the "draw" in the first place? What about the individual would've compelled me to want to get to know him/her, if there was no immediate, "superficial" attraction or visual interest, of some sort? *That* doesn't make any sense to me.

I guess I kind of view most humans along the lines of insects - ants, or something - that are generally a nuisance, in my way, pests. There has to be something about a particular person that catches my eye, or I won't even acknowledge a person's existence (well, it's not quite that extreme, but I feel no need or desire to interact more than superficially with most people - why should I bother?). Humans are mostly interchangeable, in my eyes.

I don't get what you mean about the narcissistic part. Sure, many celebrities are narcissistic. But how can you generalise that to bodybuilders or people who learn exercise science?

narcissism  
1.
inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity. Synonyms: self-centeredness, smugness, egocentrism.
2.
Psychoanalysis . erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.

if a person is intentionally sculpting their body to appear a certain way, i don't know how it can be anything besides narcissistic as it is focused on the self. i think diet and exercise for health are not narcissistic (neither is sports science), but trying to create a certain body type for aesthetic reasons seems like it fits the definition

no, that isn't what you should have learned from this thread. what you should have learned from this thread was that you are basing attraction on more than just lifestyle standards, but also on aesthetic preferences. that's absolutely fine as it is your own personal choice, but you can't pretend it is anything but superficial. it is less "deep" than any other factors simply by definition. yes, superficial attraction based on looks is only is probably only _one_ of many factors, but don't pretend it isn't one of the factors involved.

i should that some people find others physically attractive only if their personalities are attractive first, so in that sense physical attractivenes is less shallow. and some people find non-traditionally goodlooking people attractive, as they find beauty where others do not. and to some other people, appearance simply isn't that important. it's all over the map.

No different to an artist painting a beautiful picture or a sculptor who spends hours, they are all doing it to accomplish a certain looks. Would you go so far to say that decorating is vain? that architecture is a vain pursuit? that art is a vain pursuit? after all they are also about aesthetics to an extent.

Are you saying you would go out with someone you found no physical attraction towards whatsoever ?

Yeah but do any of them talk in a dumb sounding Austrian accent like Arnold?

you have it backwards. i am saying that sometimes attraction is based on aspects other than physical appearance. yes i would go out with someone i was attracted to for those reasons. i would be physically attracted to them, but it would not be based on how they look. i like how they loo because of who they are.

I said that looks are a determining factor not the all deciding factor, of course there are other factors like creativity and personality.

they talk to them...

He´s been told by his manager not to lose his accent, since it´s a trade mark (the same goes for Van Damme). It´s a common phenomenon; back when WRC was at it´s most popular (when Colin McRae was alive) and Subaru dominated, Petter Solberg (at one time the world champion) was told to speak bad English on purpose, since his accent had become his icon.