Men, Math and Marriage--arguments against marriage

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AnonymousGIrl
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09 May 2013, 11:45 am

appletheclown wrote:
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DialAForAwesome wrote:
This is ridiculous.

Heads we lose, tails we lose.

I'm glad I decided to start avoiding women in real life for the most part now. I love 'em, but if they can wave their finger and magically you're the bad guy, then there's something wrong.


Where did you get "heads we lose, tails we lose" and what is the heads and what is the tails? I've only seen one scenario mentioned that guys are suffering due to societal expectations.

I don't see what is wrong as this magical waving power seems to be on similar groups as either gender can wave their finder at someone and magically that person is bad:
Gals can wave their finger at a gal and magically she's the bad gal.
Guys can wave their finger at a gal and magically she's the bad gal.
Gals can wave their finger at a guy and magically he's the bad guy.
Guys can wave their finger at a guy and magically he's the bad guy.


Funny, as how you are only concentrating on the bad in guys, and never giving any examples of how men can be good, or valiant. Why do you constantly need to point out evil guys, and not the opposite. This actually does suggest you dislike men, and think men to be all violent, instead of seeing the good in them. Women are great to me, and me to them, you are just disrupting this. I hope you find some man who agrees with you, and matches your personality, I hope to high heaven you do.

Funny is how when the topic is magically waving and making a person 'bad' I'm suppose to talk about good guys or I dislike guys and think men are all violent....despite how earlier I said thinking men are all violent is a low misandric opinion. :roll:

I don't have a constant need to point out evil in guys it seems you're the one with a constant need to always have the good in guys pointed out in them even when good is not being discussed. For all your "women are great to me" I also didn't mention any good gals so how come you're not oh so upset that I'm only concentrating on the bad in gals never giving any examples of how gals can be good? :?:



AnonymousGIrl
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09 May 2013, 11:46 am

appletheclown wrote:
Anomiel wrote:
DialAForAwesome wrote:
Well that makes sense I guess. Women's suffering is all men's fault, and men's suffering is all men's fault as well. :roll:


The idea of "traditional masculinity", and that men should be violent etc, is an idea uphold by all genders of society. If you can't understand something, then you ASK QUESTIONS.



Violent? Hmm, don't blame society for everything. Men are not completely responsible for the world's hurt, not by a long-shot.


Egh blaming society isn't holding guys completely responsible as society is made of both genders. She even states this is upheld by all genders. Where did you get this solely blaming men?



AnonymousGIrl
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09 May 2013, 11:51 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Okay, so AnonymousGirl agrees with Mr. Elam.

One reason for a man to marry is if he wants to have his own biologic children, if for no other reason than to have someone to get his stuff when he dies. If a single person dies alone--possibly when his mail piles up, the mailman will decide to call the police to investigate after a few days. If he uses a PO box, then he could be rather thoroughly decomposed before anyone bothers to call anyone to look for him.

In some countries, men feel obliged to marry in order to please their parents. In the USA, everyone's first priority is to please one's self.

Since we don't have our own wombs, and child support can get expensive (and land us in prison if we can't pay), taking the risk of marriage would probably be our best option, and is still generally regarded as the most noble (even if it is increasingly considered an exercise in stupidity), if we want our own children. A less risky option would be to find and pay a willing surrogate (as gay couples sometimes do), but that only becomes feasible if you are as wealthy as Elton John, and can hire a wetnurse and nanny.

I partly agree with him the majority of his statements seem to be blame shifting.

Egh in my opinion having children is not a logical reason for a guy to marry unless said guy doesn't want to be the primary caregiver passing off the sole/main duties to the wife. Surrogacy is not as expensive to be limited to only the wealthy in my experiences so I don't think taking the risk of marriage would probably be the best option.

Basically what you're saying is one reason for guys to marry is a less expensive breeder who will take care of the child? Bit of a turnaround on the claims that gals only marry to have children and treat the guy like an ATM.



ArrantPariah
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09 May 2013, 12:03 pm

Yes. One reason for a man to marry is to have a wife who will serve as an inexpensive breeder, and who will be less expensive than hiring a surrogate, wetnurse and nanny.

Other than that, the economic costs and risks might seem to exceed the benefits.

From what I'm told, a fleshlight makes for a decent substitute.



AnonymousGIrl
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09 May 2013, 12:23 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Yes. One reason for a man to marry is to have a wife who will serve as an inexpensive breeder, and who will be less expensive than hiring a surrogate, wetnurse and nanny.

Other than that, the economic costs and risks might seem to exceed the benefits.

From what I'm told, a fleshlight makes for a decent substitute.

Telling how that reason is supportive of my reason for gals not to marry. Seems guys reason(s) to marry make marriage a disadvantage for gals in my opinion.

Likely a fleshlight makes a decent substitute for many guys as sex is regarded as busting a nut I know I perceive hetero sex as nothing more to a guy than busting a nut in or on a gal.



kouzoku
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09 May 2013, 12:32 pm

How about this: Society encourages the sexes to hate each other. That's what I think. Too much battle of the sexes, even on jovial terms (like game shows for instance). Why do we always need pissing contests between the sexes?



AnonymousGIrl
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09 May 2013, 12:46 pm

kouzoku wrote:
How about this: Society encourages the sexes to hate each other. That's what I think. Too much battle of the sexes, even on jovial terms (like game shows for instance). Why do we always need pissing contests between the sexes?


Possibly because of gender roles like the guy is dominant the gal is submissive, the guy is the leader the gal is the follower, the guy is the captain the gal is the first mate. Those gender roles seem to make interaction a power play and gender identity since if the guy doesn't wear the pants aka isn't dominating, leading, or the one in charge he's less of a guy and she's less of a gal.



Last edited by AnonymousGIrl on 09 May 2013, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ArrantPariah
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09 May 2013, 1:06 pm

Well, illegitimacy rates are on the rise. Marriage is hardly a pre-requisite for breeding any more. I suppose that a man who was a bit old-fashioned might consider a marriage commitment with a good breeder to be in his own best interest, if he wanted what he thought was best for his brood.



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09 May 2013, 1:08 pm

AnonymousGIrl wrote:
kouzoku wrote:
How about this: Society encourages the sexes to hate each other. That's what I think. Too much battle of the sexes, even on jovial terms (like game shows for instance). Why do we always need pissing contests between the sexes?


Possibly because of gender roles like the guy is dominant the gal is submissive, the guy is the follow the gal is the leader, the guy is the captain the gal is the first mate. Those gender roles seem to make interaction a power play and gender identity since if the guy doesn't wear the pants aka isn't dominating, leading, or the one in charge he's less of a guy and she's less of a gal.


Image



kouzoku
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09 May 2013, 1:13 pm

AnonymousGIrl wrote:
kouzoku wrote:
How about this: Society encourages the sexes to hate each other. That's what I think. Too much battle of the sexes, even on jovial terms (like game shows for instance). Why do we always need pissing contests between the sexes?


Possibly because of gender roles like the guy is dominant the gal is submissive, the guy is the leader the gal is the follower, the guy is the captain the gal is the first mate. Those gender roles seem to make interaction a power play and gender identity since if the guy doesn't wear the pants aka isn't dominating, leading, or the one in charge he's less of a guy and she's less of a gal.


My experience in contrary; I've seen that in many families I've known, the women are actually the ones who make most of the decisions and call the shots. And I live in the midwest!



AnonymousGIrl
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09 May 2013, 1:21 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
AnonymousGIrl wrote:
kouzoku wrote:
How about this: Society encourages the sexes to hate each other. That's what I think. Too much battle of the sexes, even on jovial terms (like game shows for instance). Why do we always need pissing contests between the sexes?


Possibly because of gender roles like the guy is dominant the gal is submissive, the guy is the follow the gal is the leader, the guy is the captain the gal is the first mate. Those gender roles seem to make interaction a power play and gender identity since if the guy doesn't wear the pants aka isn't dominating, leading, or the one in charge he's less of a guy and she's less of a gal.


Image


I'm unsure what the picture's purpose is? If it's to say what I stated isn't the gender roles then that picture isn't supporting such as it shows a gal being 'unfeminine' alooking angry, violent, and unattractive typical of the overbearing nagging female partner trope which in turn 'shames' the male in the relationship as being a lesser male for having her wear the pants.



ArrantPariah
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09 May 2013, 2:47 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, illegitimacy rates are on the rise. Marriage is hardly a pre-requisite for breeding any more. I suppose that a man who was a bit old-fashioned might consider a marriage commitment with a good breeder to be in his own best interest, if he wanted what he thought was best for his brood.


On the other hand, even if a man does marry a good breeder, both she and he know very well that if he ever does anything to displease her, and even if he doesn't, then she and her lawyer can take him for everything he has.

A paid surrogate, paid wetnurse, and paid nanny would involve considerably more outlays up front, but would considerably reduce a man's exposure to risk.



Tyri0n
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09 May 2013, 2:52 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, illegitimacy rates are on the rise. Marriage is hardly a pre-requisite for breeding any more. I suppose that a man who was a bit old-fashioned might consider a marriage commitment with a good breeder to be in his own best interest, if he wanted what he thought was best for his brood.


On the other hand, even if a man does marry a good breeder, both she and he know very well that if he ever does anything to displease her, and even if he doesn't, then she and her lawyer can take him for everything he has.

A paid surrogate, paid wetnurse, and paid nanny would involve considerably more outlays up front, but would considerably reduce a man's exposure to risk.


Yes, it's better to just co-habit. Traditional marriage is harmful to both men and women. The traditional idea of procreation and family is harmful too. There are definitely better solutions.

With the current system, you either have women bitching about having to stay home and take care of children or men bitching about how family law is stacked against them. It seems like a public daycare/boarding school agency could solve all these problems.

Or move to Quebec. I like Quebec's de facto marriage system. It sounds like it could work better for everyone.

Another solution would be to only adopt and not procreate. If you co-habit with someone in a de facto marriage, you could make sure that only one of you has complete custody of each child, so therefore, if there is ever a split, there would be nothing like alimony, child support, or custody battles that the woman always wins.



Last edited by Tyri0n on 09 May 2013, 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AnonymousGIrl
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09 May 2013, 2:59 pm

kouzoku wrote:
My experience in contrary; I've seen that in many families I've known, the women are actually the ones who make most of the decisions and call the shots. And I live in the midwest!


Interesting the only decision making I've seen most married gals have is household/childcare duties. Are you talking about household/childcare decisions as technically since they are day-to-day events often the gal is the sole/main one doing it is the bulk of the decisions?



appletheclown
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09 May 2013, 3:41 pm

AnonymousGIrl wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
AnonymousGIrl wrote:
DialAForAwesome wrote:
This is ridiculous.

Heads we lose, tails we lose.

I'm glad I decided to start avoiding women in real life for the most part now. I love 'em, but if they can wave their finger and magically you're the bad guy, then there's something wrong.


Where did you get "heads we lose, tails we lose" and what is the heads and what is the tails? I've only seen one scenario mentioned that guys are suffering due to societal expectations.

I don't see what is wrong as this magical waving power seems to be on similar groups as either gender can wave their finder at someone and magically that person is bad:
Gals can wave their finger at a gal and magically she's the bad gal.
Guys can wave their finger at a gal and magically she's the bad gal.
Gals can wave their finger at a guy and magically he's the bad guy.
Guys can wave their finger at a guy and magically he's the bad guy.


Funny, as how you are only concentrating on the bad in guys, and never giving any examples of how men can be good, or valiant. Why do you constantly need to point out evil guys, and not the opposite. This actually does suggest you dislike men, and think men to be all violent, instead of seeing the good in them. Women are great to me, and me to them, you are just disrupting this. I hope you find some man who agrees with you, and matches your personality, I hope to high heaven you do.

Funny is how when the topic is magically waving and making a person 'bad' I'm suppose to talk about good guys or I dislike guys and think men are all violent....despite how earlier I said thinking men are all violent is a low misandric opinion. :roll:

I don't have a constant need to point out evil in guys it seems you're the one with a constant need to always have the good in guys pointed out in them even when good is not being discussed. For all your "women are great to me" I also didn't mention any good gals so how come you're not oh so upset that I'm only concentrating on the bad in gals never giving any examples of how gals can be good? :?:


I am upset, stop being so stinking dark! Women and men do great things, I never said women do not do great things! Why does this topic have to have such an attitude being tossed around with it? You don't think I am upset about you not saying a word about women being good? You don't think I don't know there are a large number of women who are just as abusive and messed up as men? You don't think for one second mentioning how guys can be bad and not mentioning how girls can be bad might make some men who don't do that crap mad? Maybe we both need to calm down! And when I first replied, "Is every one here an idiot....", I wasn't implying anything, I was being aspie like and directly asking if everyone here is an idiot, not pointing out you mentioned anything! this whole argument you started is for nothing! I was pointing out men do good things too, and I will admit, I did not acknowledge women play a role too, and may have bashed feminism, but sometimes feminism grill guys completely innocent of anything, and makes them have to deal with nitpicky BS, so I'm sorry if I was a little rash.


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appletheclown
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09 May 2013, 3:46 pm

AnonymousGIrl wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
Anomiel wrote:
DialAForAwesome wrote:
Well that makes sense I guess. Women's suffering is all men's fault, and men's suffering is all men's fault as well. :roll:


The idea of "traditional masculinity", and that men should be violent etc, is an idea uphold by all genders of society. If you can't understand something, then you ASK QUESTIONS.



Violent? Hmm, don't blame society for everything. Men are not completely responsible for the world's hurt, not by a long-shot.


Egh blaming society isn't holding guys completely responsible as society is made of both genders. She even states this is upheld by all genders. Where did you get this solely blaming men?


Because you didn't blame women who do bad s**t stupid!


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