Encountered a pair of Pick-Up Artists last night.

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Right, so Shau's cage has been thoroughly rattled.

I'm friends with this Latin American girl, this other Laotian girl, and this Kenyan guy, and they're a part of my GF's social group. They're heading home very soon so we were having drinks to celebrate. Mr. Kenya flats with a couple of guys who I think were PUAs. I was watching them ply their trade on my Latin American and Laotian friends. My GF was tired so I ended up taking her home early, so she didn't witness most of this. One of the guys even mentioned offhand to me in a conversation we had been having that he "knew a lot about game". I asked him what he meant (trying to get him to admit he was a PUA) but he just said "just a lot of practice man".

...~sigh~. That guy got further with my Laotian friend in one night than I've managed in 3 months with my GF. He just went for it despite the fact that they explain how conservative yadda yadda they are to ME...and when this guy just goes for it she doesn't seem to say a damn word. Whatever. Maybe she's less conservative, I dunno, but it does raise doubts in my mind. She isn't very reserved as far as Laotians go I know that much so maybe she's more relaxed on sexual mores as well. I'm not gonna knock a man for doing a good job of attracting a woman, but just...keep reading.

Now my Guatemalan friend is...MARRIED. Yea...and this guy is putting his hand on her leg, around her waist, whispering into her ear in Spanish, and for most of the night it seems to stay at that. Instant red flag. However, his mate had went to the bathroom right? But then when he did, he started talking to my Laotian friend telling her to go "hide in his room" while he was gone to "play a joke on him". He'll "think you left and get upset and it'll be funny". Yea...well she goes into his room, and of course the other guy goes right in a minute later. A classic trick, this one, I knew it even as a teenager.

As for him, he spent an awful lot of energy trying to isolate Ms. Guatemala from everyone else at the gathering. When she'd go for a smoke, he'd invite her to a "walk around the block", "Hey I wanna show you something" and start trying to lead her to his room, etc. At one point, she whispers into my ear "[Shau] don't leave tonight" when he tried to get her into his room. So yea...later on, everyone is getting ready to leave, and he leaves with her early to where the cab was gonna pick them up. I guess she relented to that cause she let him. I'm following a couple minutes later with the other guy and the Laotian girl, and what do ya know, there they are making out on the bench.

REALLY? They stop after we had been observing them for a few seconds, it's hard to say if they noticed us or not, and I just say nothing...about 20 minutes after I'd gotten home, I get a phone call from Ms. Guatemala, who is kind of freaking out. I am pretty damn unimpressed and lay into her a bit, telling her that she had done a lot to damage my trust in women (unfortunately true, though a lot of it was repaired in the subsequent conversation). She had ASKED ME TO STAY because she KNEW those guys were gunning for the poon and wanted me there in case things went bad. Hearing those words whispered into my ear was one of the ghastliest things I've ever experienced.

So yea, I'm doing my best to be both comforting and restraining how upset and disappointed I was. She says that it was like 5-10 seconds and that it was a "moment of weakness". Now, wanting to make the best of this situation, I tell her that "hopefully that's as far as it would have gotten even if we hadn't been there, and you should take it as a chance to learn and shock you into never doing it again". There's often ways to turn misfortune and mistakes into valuable knowledge and experience, after all. We start to pick apart why things seemed to work, what she felt while it was happening, what she was thinking, etc. I learned quite a lot actually. They catch a woman off guard while at the same time getting their juices going often despite their mental objections...their body just responds and it gets increasingly harder and harder to resist as time goes on. Making her particularly vulnerable was the fact that she had been away from her husband for several months.

So I bring up the problem of me and my GF not really getting anywhere in our relationship intimacy-wise. After I had brought her home, I tried to step it up a notch and embraced her a fair bit closer and more tightly, telling her this was a "close hug" and asking her if she liked it. While she didn't seem actively bothered, she didn't really seem that into it either, but she's reserved so it's always hard to tell. She's told me before "Just because I do not make big expressions does not mean I do not feel something, or that I find it boring". How very Aspie of her. I explained this to Ms. Guatemala and she basically encouraged me to be more forceful. Amp it up EVEN MORE, and if that doesn't work, then have a serious talk with her about it.

BLAH. Well if that isn't basically the advice Fnord and the others were giving me! Son of a b***h, and from a woman no less, a woman I just witnessed getting worked over by a PUA! At least I'm pretty sure they were, they had a lot of the same traits and tactics so it makes no difference really. I just dunno what to do. But then she also spent a long time explaining how "disgusting" she feels about it all in the end, a sentiment that has been repeated by women on this forum before about the same thing.

Ladies, I am really worked up now. Last night freaked me out, this is the kind of s**t women deal with. I wasn't even the TARGET and the visceral fear of rape sent shivers up and down my spine that hasn't left me since last night, I can't even imagine what it's like having to be the woman. I will from this day on in my life always be fully sympathetic of the fear women feel in today's society. I'm just mistrustful of everyone and everything at the moment. It feels like I can't trust men or women...what if I hadn't been there and my GF had been the target? Could she have cheated on me? Would things had turned out much differently had I not come back to the gathering? And now it seems like women expect me to be just like those guys...

Hell of an update...haven't seen my GF yet since this...I just dunno what to think or do anymore...

People have an awful habit of saying and telling you what you want to hear much like a TV politician. It's not often what is really going on in their minds nor does it represent their integrity as a person. That is all.
Edit: Wow, you don't even do hugs with your GF normally? Gotta ask you something.. wasn't it you that brought up your GF was some Asian girl from overseas? Question 2, are you marrying soon?

I know enough in my life to know that most women fall for a player's tactics at least once in their life. Some girls, like the one I was seeing earlier in the year will do it more than once since they are likely looking for an excuse to get out of a relationship. Very typical for those who don't know what they want or for moments of insecurity. My understanding is that the Guatemalan friend of yours could have very well been vulnerable and she knew it too. However, the moral reasoning of us Aspies won't help in comforting them when they need help. Listening will.

The PUA's were obviously smart and probably picked up on something before even approaching. They obviously knew how to work things to their advantage. It sucks that you had to be there to deal with all of this, but you mentioned that your eyes are opened to something now.

The real question is whether your friend truly got manipulated, or pretended so she could fit her role of shy conservative. Imho, theres no such thing as game and manipulation, only guys making routines to sort quickly which want them and which don't.

Shau - reading about that, I can tell you that I deal with guys who are much much better than them at it on a regular basis. It is scary as all hell because you never know how far a guy is willing to go in public - which is bad enough. It's why I do everything I can to avoid being alone with them because most guys like this will totally ignore you if you say no. And if you are alone with them - you are truly screwed- I have literally had to fight them off before only to have them to tell me " I thought we were just playing".

I've had guys kiss me in public when it was totally unacceptable and I have frozen in shock. If I don't freeze, I slap them. But many women will not slap a guy who kisses her without her permission when he knows it's unacceptable, because as stupid as it sounds - many girls gave had it drummed into them to be try nice and to try to gain or keep people's approval unconsciously for so long. It can stop them from acting or reacting appropriately even when they want to.

I'm never safe. I can never afford to lose my awareness and my wits. It's one of the reasons I don't drink. The last time I did drink, someone did try to take advantage of it, even though I had only had 2.

I'm sorry you had to go through that OP.

I've witnessed things like that before.


But eh, I lost trust in humanity years ago. I'm slowly trying to let myself trust again.

painting by a pick up artist.

OP - turning into a vagina isn't going to get you any closer to another vagina.

It makes me sick to see this bs happening. But that is what is going on out there from both sides. I saw this in social settings as well. Women goes to this knowingly. They give in and then "then call it a mistake". It happened to me when I was just laying there and she jumped me and then called it a mistake afterwards. They have needs and they just cover it up in bs too.

It's a serious thing. Especially in places where girls are taught that standing up for themselves is being mean, bitchy, rude, and otherwise a behavioural a things that are disapproved of. And considered inappropriate. It's not as common where I am from, but it seems to be a big thing here. Many times they will state that they wanted to know definitively if he was an as*hole before they overreact needlessly. There is a fear of overreacting and I can only assume it comes from that.

And that is part if the problem - a lot of people think silence is consent. Silence is not consent. Saying yes or otherwise agreeing to it is consent. Silence is simply a lack of consent - and therefore should not be taken as consent.

All I'm getting from this is that no doesn't always mean no, and now I'm shell shocked because the reality hit me like a f*****g freight train.

f**k it all. f**k all of you. f**k you.

I hate humanity. This is why I'm a misanthropist. Men like me lose. It's just how it is.

I only got seduced once when I was 16.

Never again.

I don't care if I come across as a psycho. You invade my personal zone I will growl, hiss, then rip your flesh off with my teeth if I have to.

No one will take advantage of me again. EVER.

I reckon if more women didn't care what others thought of them, PUAs would have a much harder time (I mean, try picking up a girl when you're covered in scars from the last girl you tried to pick up...).