So my GF cheated on me

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You know all his peers' levels in relationships? I knew plenty of NT guys who got their first relationships at mid-twenties, but they are very NT in every way.
Being little "behind" his peers in term of relationship exp and knowledge is not an indication he's AS but I believe that having social/relationship experience in a very young age is a strong indication it's not AS but his oddities might be something else, like IQ-giftness perhaps?

I know the norm for his country. He did struggle much more than his peers in terms of sex, ad having a real relationship at the same level of his peers. There was a lag of quite a few years on both those markers.

The lag time on a development basis if social skills is far to much to be anything else. He does have an incredibly high IQ and does use that to compensate where possible. Doesn't always succeed either because I have been on the receiving end of his ToM issues first hand multiple times.

This reminds me of the times I have been accused of not being aspie for having a social circle and having been in dates or in relationships.

People seriously need to stop using it as a playing card.

I strongly believe (it's a just belief) that his incredibly high IQ is what makes him mistaken as AS but it's not what it compensates his AS-related "lackings". Intellectual Giftedness and Asperger's look so alike in many ways.

This is an article that put some light on this issue: http://changelog.ca/quote/2012/04/15/in ... look_alike

and this:
http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/10/w ... in-common/



and this:
http://www.sengifted.org/archives/artic ... d-children





All in all, this is what I strongly believe about Shatbat's case - regardless if I am right or wrong, I wish him well.

Thank you Kjas. I can't disagree with you there

Before going any further it would be useful to talk about what you think AS is, and what I think AS is. You say "AS by definition is chronic social ineptness + other symptoms". I prefer to look at the original cause, to me AS is a difference in brain structure which causes the social ineptness and other symptoms (which are actually very important, AS goes beyond social issues), like different sizes of certain parts of the brain, different wiring, different levels of neurotransmitters and neuroreceptors and so on. And when you say there is no cure for it, well, there certainly is not. The outward symptoms can be managed through coping mechanisms or choosing one's environment to a lesser or greater extent, but the underlying issues are still there, and will always be there.

You say there are things I've mastered, some of them are far from mastered. really. For starters, there is a big gap between knowing the right course of action and doing it when the moment arrives, which is something I struggle with. If I am knowledgeable about those subjects it is because I had problems with them and I seeked to solve them, an NT doesn't need to know about body language because he has it hardwired in his brain and just understands it automatically; I don't have that and therefore had to read, watch videos, observe people, think about those observations and how they related with previous observations and knowledge I already had, and all of this only works well when I focus my attention on it, otherwise I am pretty clueless. Ditto for social interaction in general, at one point of my life I read the "how to make friends and influence people" book, and I even took an university course on social psychology to understand social interaction better.

I actually do very badly in my bad days. My current strategy is to make sure I am on my "good days" as often as possible and I also have Sunday as my official "shut down" day, when I don't leave my apartment and rest from the world so I can recharge for the next week. And when that fails and I get a bad day anyway I end up locking myself in the room and skipping classes, not answering to my cellphone and having headaches when my apartment mates try to interact with me. All in all, I don't interact that much with people in the uni outside friends or good acquaintances, who don't tire me out. And if I have something like a date, I make sure I am in a good mood before going.

Having social experience at a young age is not a necessary indicator of not having AS either, there are people around who had them at an even younger age. Plus I didn't have my first girlfriend until after I made a major paradigm shift in my way of thinking, read and internalized plenty of PUA material to the point I had a better intellectual grasp of it than the friend who showed it to me, having him teach me and show me how he texted, how he thought, and doing various experiments, some of which were embarrassing failures.

I don't think I am such a child prodigy like the first example, I actually didn't start talking until I was two and a half, and had to go through speech therapy, and there was one point were my parents though I had some serious kind of mental impairment.

All in all, I have experienced shutdowns, meltdowns, and sensory overload. I have procrastination issues, four days ago I was glared at for saying the wrong thing. I am clumsy and drop objects thrown at me more often than not. My working memory is laughable, the very opposite of what should be the case of the little geniuses you mentioned. I am known for not getting sarcasm at times, and for talking too long about a single subject when I forget to keep myself in check. People think I'm odd, the best I can do is to make it odd in a good way, which is better than repressing everything all the time. I am still very much socially awkward in new situations with completely new people, I haven't gotten the hang of it yet. And I know how worse some of those issues were when I was younger, when I didn't have means to deal with them, or the knowledge to find those means. I believe I do have AS, then, and that it affects my way of life. And this is important, because I also believe I can help others with AS; this would probably be our sticking point because although I don't really take issue or am offended by whether you think I have AS or not, if you used that as an excuse to dismiss my advice and the things I have to say by answering something like "you don't have AS so what you say doesn't work and is useless for everyone else" then I'd have to take issue with that. Otherwise, thanks for your good wishes.

having an ASD does not = being exactly like Boo



by your logic all shy and socially awkward persons are autistic.

Recently, my mother finally agreed that I am probably on the spectrum by saying: Well, to be honest, it does explain an awful lot of your little idiosyncrasies - when we always just thought you were moody.

I can fake it so well for a short period of time it would put career socialites to shame. I can fake it as a one off or once every year. I can't do that all the time. My brain melts from overwhelm.

It's not a question of mastering the ancient art of socializing. People are stupid and easily manipulated if you wanted to go that route you can do it easily. The problem is not faking it. Just being like everyone else. Having the feel for things instead of having to work it out in your head. Some of us are incredibly smart and fast so it doesn't show on a superficial level. But I know for a fact I will never know what it is to be/feel normal. I know this because I am curious and inquisitive and always asking questions and because I have been trying all my life.

Think about this logically. If he's this smart and there's still that many years of lag time on key social points - without his intelligence and willingness to try - he would be getting the same results as the average aspie.

A coping mechanism is just that - a coping mechanism. It does not mean that the AS does not exist - simply that you either find a way to cope or find a way to make it work for you. It requires us to manage our energy as an autistic person - and we pay a much much higher price for putting coping mechanisms in place that any NT ever will.

It's about time people on this forum stopped playing the "you don't have AS card". Just because some of us find ways to succeed does not make us any less autistic. It just makes us willing to try and willing to learn. We often fail much more because we try and because we take more chances in order to gain more experience than those who are sitting there saying were not aspie.

Leafplant

Social ineptness =/= shyness

Boo I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Could you try using more words?

Interesting, fine - I am not in the mood to discuss about your AS anymore - what about you make a thread about your PUA implementations and which PUA materials exactly? You said you wanted to help those with AS so here you go.

I should have used a stronger word than ineptness - it's social impairment; with persistent deficits in communication and interaction across multiple contexts+ other symptoms. Shyness is not that.

I don't really know what shyness is. Sometimes people will tell me that I am shy which is hilarious, I'm the least shy person in the World - but I guess my social issues can look like shyness from the outside.


you said multiple contexts - but what about online vs in person? So many people on this forum write long and beautiful posts and engage in lively debate but presumably they would never be able to do that in person? I know that I find it much much much easier to express myself in writing than orally.

Is this what you meant?

Just an idea, but maybe this discussion (which isn't uninteresting btw!) could happen in a new or other thread?
For the OP's sake.

No, by multiple contexts I mean social skills deficits in many areas like nonverbal, developing and maintaining relationships and friendships, social reciprocity; I am sure I've seen all this is the latest DSM's Autism diagnostic criteria.


In m still kinda shocked to find out that Shatbat is a hardcore PUA practitioner, btw.

That was back in 2009, when I was 16. I've changed a lot since then, and I don't longer read or follow PUA stuff.

But looking back, it was a necessary step and I wonder whether other people could benefit from it and use it as a sort of stepping stone. I am kinda busy right at this moment but I can elaborate on that idea later.

And sorry Shau for derailing your thread.

^ Thread's over. It can drift to whatever topic for all I care now.

Me and the GF have managed to come to peace with each other, and can remain as friends, but friends only.

Good for you!

*hug*