why men don't chase rich women

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I'm not surprised by any shocking behaviour any more, least of all the expectation we should pay for their company on a date despite a society where most women earn their own wage, and apparently do not need us to support them. I've decided that when I next go out with a woman, if she doesn't offer to pay her way it will effect her standing with me.

Women will be more attracted to those men with higher testosterone, it's only natural and it's something they can pick up on through pheromones. I noticed the same, women are more likely to be attracted to you when you're at your fittest, and look your smartest. I do not begrudge this at all. But I do begrudge the many women out there who would almost definitely criticize this behaviour in men when they go for only the most feminine, good looking, and well presented women.

It's well known the synthetic means to get big may make those men unstable though, so if they go for just biggest men more fool them.

I don't think women begrudge it so much as feel like they can't measure up - pretty much the same as men do from their side of the coin.

I think you've misunderstood my point a bit. It's not the person being abnormal that is the problem. An abnormal person who has intelligence and emotional maturity would make a fitting partner. However dating someone with below average emotional maturity would be akin to dating a teenager for me. They couldn't bring adult grown up feelings and ideas to the relationship. I need a partner not a son.

As it goes for looks, I always feel we ought to look in the 'general range' of our own attractiveness. Sadly we all have to accept there's a certain level of attractiveness we all must have. I do think there are women out there who would go for more attractive men even when they're not quite so attractive, I think that's because men overvalue women and how much we need them in our lives as a rule.

Fortunately for me, I seem to disagree with most men about what kind of woman qualifies as 'stunning', so I don't have the problem of playing out of my league or finding someone 'attractive'.

eh, I don't really buy this - attractiveness is a relative term and women are definitely more swayed by personality than looks. I think everyone normally tends to go for people that are attractive to them, regardless of how attractive they themselves are - I don't think people normally do a comparison analysis before they feel attracted to someone because true attraction happens before our conscious brain gets engaged.

I want the money. I don't care what anybody thinks of me either. They can call me her boy toy. I don't like being poor.

Of course I am not masculine and have never understood typical male reasoning when it comes to partner selection.

You're right about this happening before the concious mind is engaged.

There is actually a very different underlying reason why we're attracted to people that doesn't come down to looks or personality. The simple truth is we're attracted to people who have similar levels of self-esteem - we pick up on this and many other facts about people we just met without ever being aware of it all. I'm sure there is material out there on why confidence and self esteem should be internalized rather than externalized, but sadly we're not all perfect models of human beings and are able to do that, and actually there is no such thing as 100% internalized anyway afaik.

For that reason (especially given our neurotic way of life) I do believe we evaluate our relative worth based on how attractive we are, and so do other people*. Also, we cannot blame ourselves for viewing the world realistically - by not expecting every person to find us attractive enough for them just because we have a good sense of our self worth. I don't think this evaluation happens 'out in the field' if you like, but the way we think, our personality, and how much we value ourselves (which is tied into our confidence) does effect what we believe we can attain, and as a result, what we will try to attain.

Though I concede the most confident of men who really have the best speaking skills, plenty of wit and charm, will still be able to get women even if they look like the hunchback of Notre Dame. That's an example to us all, but I think having very high proportions of those 'skills' counts as a case of 'superhuman' - the average man is not a silver tongued master (or rogue) of seduction. So for us avies, I think we're better off having some looks to go along with whatever is 'under the hood'.

My apologies to the OP for going this far on an off topic discussion btw

But how can you be a fitting partner without any experience at all? I may be intelligent and emotionally mature, but dating me would still be a lot like dating a 15 year old. Why would NT date someone who can become a fitting partner when they can choose someone who already is one?

So that guy was right to say "what does she need me for, she's got everything", him living with parents means he's below average (in the west at least), and hugs won't fix that.

Cheers for the explanation.


Well done mate.



How do you define emotional maturity? Plenty of narcissistic bullying control-freak types are emotionally immature, yet they get plenty of relationships. Furthermore, if you have little or no relationship experience by the time you reach your mid 20's or even 30's, surely that means you're emotionally behind and therefore unlovable, no?

Good question. I see what you mean, but I think that having a conversation with an intelligent man with the same emotional intelligence as me would be enjoyable whether he had been in a relationship or not. If we enjoy talking to each other but he's not sure about certain things about being a boyfriend like when he should hold hands or whateever, then that shouldn't be as important as the connection two people have and the enjoyment of getting along together. I think all couples sort of work things out as they go along. Dating one person isn't exactly the same as dating another. We are all individuals. That's what I think anyway. I know not all women will be like that.

Let me tell you about a man I know. He's about my age. I never saw him having a girlfriend in all the time that I knew him, till he met a friend of a friend. It took a couple of years for the relationship to blossom. He was still living with his parents well into his 30s and she was living away from home and had been in a long term relationship in the past. He is intelligent and emotionally mature. I've always been able to have interesting conversations with him, but I didn't see him very often, so we never really hit it off (which I regret a little, but he definately wasn't interested in me). Even though he had little to no experience of relationships they just got along so well that it just worked out. They have been married for a couple of years now and it's all worked out quiet nicely.

If you get on well with someone you just get along well with them. So don't let a lack of experience put you off. If you meet the right woman she won't care. She'll like you for who you are. Any women that turn their nose up at you are not right for you. I know it is difficult to find an open minded, non shallow woman (or human being in general), but they are out there.

It's also not so much about actual wealth as it is about perceived wealth or benefits. I've known girls who were dated for their car, or their pool or their stereo or their guitar. Really. I was dated for my car a couple times but that did not last once I found out why. I did not get that car to attract guys, I got that car cause I liked racing. Some guys would get cars because they knew the car would attract girls, but that's a cop out to me.

I think they get relationships because they come over as charming and they date vulnerable women who get wrapped up in the image they portray only to find out slowly as he actually reveals his true nature and isolates her from her supportive friends and family until she is trapped, then she realizes that this man isn't so charming as he first appeared. Just because someone gets dates doesn't mean they are emotionally mature. We can't take positive and negative traits in isolation and say "a ha, this is they key!"

Emotionally maturity is something I personaly value. Not all people do. It is more about how one responds to other people. Do they respond like an adult or like a child? If they recieve criticism can a person take it on the chin or do they go and sulk or have a tantrum about it? Or can they have a relatively reasonable conversation about it. How do they handle conflict? When a disagreement arises do they insist on having their own way or can they work towards a compromise with the other person. Are they willing to be yeilding if the disagreement isn't really that important? Can they understand that other people may not see things the way that they do or do they shout at their partner for being stupid because they can't see the world exactly the way they can? If they see their spouse crying do they offer comfort or do they walk away and hope they will stop crying soon so that things can get back to normal?

A shy person who is a little unsure of approaching someone they have a crush on to ask them out isn't neccessarily emotionally immature in all aspects of life. Maybe they have good conflict manangement skills. Maybe they are responsible and don't blame others for their actions or throw tantrums when things don't go their way. Maybe they aren't shy and just haven't met someone they like enough to actually want to date because a person they connect with hasn't come along yet. That doesn't make them emotionally immature.

Google emotional maturity for more answers.

He was working though and had a nice car. He was just too cheap to spend money on rent when he could live rent free with his folks. That wasn't a problem for me. Why throw your money away on rent when you can put it into savings instead? (or buy a nice car) Perfectly logical reasoning to me. He lived with his folks up until he got married too, so that didn't put off his wife either.

Back in the day I asked him out a few times... he said no.

A lot of young people are living with their parents here so that they can save up a deposit for a mortgage rather than throwing money away on rent. However, I decided to leave home and throw my money away. I will never own a house.

And he was wrong. I liked him. Hugs are awesome! What rhymes with hug me...

Exactly. Relationships are overall about image.


Depends how warrented, constructive, how it is delivered and the motive for it.

We were talking in the context of an abusive relationship and how someone ends up getting themselves into one. When I said "image" I meant the persona he portrays. He would at first seem like a nice man, charming, interested in her. She liked the image he presented to her of his personality, which turns out to be a sham.

Ok some people are car, money big house type of image obsessed, but there are lots of people out there who are interested in more than just image, they are the people I'm defending. They do exist.

I am advocating focussing less on the people who are shallow and image obsessed
(what's the point, they exisit and we can never change them. There is no point focussing our thoughts and energy on people who don't deserve it.) rather focus on finding people with deeper interests. It may be more difficult to find them, but it's worth the effort in the long run.


Well yes, if you are with someone who is insistent on tearing you down at every opportunity then they are not a very nice person and you should probably get yourself as far away from them as possible.

I meant constructive criticism or valid points the other person raises that can be fixed. Like one says, why can't you do the dishes before bed? I feel like you expect me to do all the housework. The other might say "I don't see why I should have to do them when you say so" and then storms off in a huff shouting, "don't tell me what to do!" or they could say. "I feel too tired at night, why don't I do them in the morning. Please don't feel like I'm leaving them for you to do, I will do them in the morning." Then that is a comopromize and everyone is happy. It only works though if I actually do the dishes in the morning.

Although, even if your other half is really stressed and commincates their feelings bluntly and unfairly from time to time it is best to respond in a mature manner, rather than going into a rage and telling them where to go. No one is perfect. No one will ever communicate perfectly with another person, so that's why patience is a big part of being in a relationship. When one is stressed it is good if the other can hold it together.

See this
How to Communicate Without Anger

I really like this guy's blog about communication in relationships:
She feels blamed, I feel angry