My Aspie Fiance

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As an NT lady in a relationship with an Aspie guy, I think a lot of what she's describing sounds like it could be communication and perspective issues and not actually abusive. I think, sometimes, what an Aspie would have to be experiencing to describe things the way the OP has is very different from what an NT would have to be describing, so that is why I say her descriptions sound like things which, coming from an NT, are probably things that can be learned and worked through. However, it's going to take awhile and a lot of learning to understand how to work through them.

OP, it sounds like you guys are making some progress with open communication, so keep it up. There were several things that I saw you say that really resonated with me, because I recognized the issue you were encountering, but I can't remember them all to address them all. Feel free to PM me on any issues, too, if you want, especially if there was something earlier in the thread that you'd really like to get thoughts on that I missed.

Of the more recent things you'd posted about, you mentioned he says he only yells when you yell, but you didn't think you were yelling. My Aspie guy has said I was yelling at him times when I didn't think I was, too - I think this is because his hearing is so much more sensitive than mine, so what I consider maybe "spirited" is "yelling" to him. That's the type of thing that as you guys work through and communicate more clearly about it, you'll be able to improve greatly, and I think a lot of the other issues will be similar.

Another theme I wanted to touch on quickly was his extensive gaming, especially on his days off and/or in his evenings after work. My guy is a gamer, too, and used to play a lot after work and often not want to do anything else till he'd played for awhile, and usually by the time he was ready to do anything else, it was time for me to go to bed. I used to take it personal, but discovered (and some others have eluded to this) that it was his most effective way of de-stressing from work. Yeah, I know, we're stressed from work too...but the level of stress he was dealing with was different, and it took me a long time to understand that. He was undiagnosed for the first half of our relationship, so when he'd talk about being too stressed from work, I never really understood it. He'd work a 4-hour shift at the grocery store and come home so mentally exhausted and stressed that he had to play games for hours before he felt better - to an NT mind, the response is, "What the heck? That doesn't even make sense..." But, after we discovered he was an Aspie (self-diagnosed), and as I read up more on it, I started to understand how his 4-hour shift putting groceries on shelves could be more draining than my 12-hour shift doing accounting work (12 hours was only during the busy season, but still happened ). I also began to understand why he'd still be stressed on vacation, because we had relatives around a lot and even interacting with them was draining. Now that I understand that all, we've been able to work out a much better situation - when he needs is de-stress time, I understand, and after he's been able to de-stress, he knows to help out. Part of our solution has included him quitting work, because that worked better for us personally (reduced his stress and reduced his de-stressing time), but I know that doesn't work for everyone.

Also you mentioned talking to him while he plays his game, if he's doing something that doesn't require too much mental attention - kudos to you realizing to do this. My guy is better at talking when he's doing something else at the same time and it took me a long time to realize that he can actually pay more attention when multi-tasking than when trying to do nothing besides talk, so bravo for figuring this out and working with it!

All in all, you guys have a lot of work ahead of you, but no good relationship can be had without work - just the specifics of the work vary from relationship to relationship. Stay committed and you guys can make this work!

I accidentally started speaking when one of his games was giving him instructions to do so he couldn't hear it and he got irritated at me. I don't remember now exactly how he released his irritation at me so that's all I can say. I felt hurt so I went to my own room and was in there an hour while he played the game. He was annoyed after he was done and I still felt hurt so I tried one of the suggestions of telling him in writing what I felt, that maybe we should work on communications more and not do anymore thinking about marriage until things straighten out more. I sent it in a text (we were both home) and that made him angry and heartbroken. He said I was cowardly for saying that in a text then went into his room and started yelling through the wall that I focus so much on his problems and I'm always trying to fix him. I feel terrible now, he left the apartment in anger after I asked him if we could talk. He said he gives up on people and that he was stupid for putting his trust in me. I tried telling him things aren't over, and please make sure he comes back to talk to me. I felt bad too because I know that I was adding to him freaking out by blocking him from leaving before I was able to try to reassure him things aren't over. I eventually let him leave, I didn't yell or scream at him or anything and tried to give him as much space as I could without giving him so much space he could just leave before I said anything.

Oh my word. I'm so sorry to hear that. I really hope that things aren't over. My suggestion of telling him in text was only a an alternative way to communicate. From everything that you have written here, I don't believe that you're trying to fix him and I believe wholeheartedly that he can trust you. Could you try contact him again and possibly apologise saying that you didn't mean to offend him? I don't know if his reaction was possibly the result of his experiences in his previous relationship, which I think it could be based on what you previously wrote. If you texted him him right there and then while he was still upset, then maybe it wasn't the best time and it might of been better to of waited until you had both calmed down a bit.

I hope that you can contact him and make up. I'm really, really sorry about this. I didn't mean for this to happen. I know that you love him.

He came back and we have been talking as he farms on his game. He seems to feel I said that it's over, but I keep saying to him that isn't what I said, nor do I want to end it. I'm telling him that I just want us to work on our communication.

You're on the right track. Keep moving forward. Make it clear that it's only being engaged that you're a little nervous about, but things like that need to be straightened out BEFORE you can be engaged and even consider marriage. And with there being less of a commitment, he'll have more time to play his game.

Farming? As in Farmville? Do people even still DO that anymore?

Anyway, my point is if that's an issue, he doesn't really love you. He just loves what you represent. You're a companion, a hang-out buddy and possibly more whenever it's convenient for him. Insurance that he doesn't have to spend a night alone. I realize he's just acting out because he's agitated, but 1) he won't talk to you because he spends most of his time playing a game, 2) he calls you a coward when you text him something--which you feel is the only communication you can get through? Wow… Maybe he didn't really mean it, sure. But exactly what do you do with something like that?

No, stay the course, give the engagement ring back or whatever, "for now…" Bring marriage back to the table when you both have fewer commitments pulling you in so many directions. Get communication and other items straightened out NOW before coming back to it.

But, honestly, while I agree with Jono on pretty much everything, it wouldn't hurt you to start putting together your exit strategy. Maybe you won't need to. Hopefully not. But it's best to be prepared.

Also…I dunno if this means anything to you at all, but my thoughts and prayers are with you. Keep us updated.

He may of misinterpreted you telling him that you want to delay talking about marriage as saying that you want to end the relationship. That's what I think happened. However, if you're still engaged and you still have his engagement ring, then means that you still plan to marry him and thats what you should point out to him. The way you should reassure him that it isn't over is by telling him that you still, at this time, plan to marry him and that all you meant was that you just didn't want to rush into marriage and want to see you cope with living together before making the plans. This brings me to another point though.

Tell him if he wants to be in a relationship with you, he needs to act like a grown up. Being in a relationship comes with certain responsibilities, whether the person has aspergers or not. He can't expect you to act like his mom. I'm willing to put up with a lot from people, but only so long as they are willing to listen and try.

On another note, if he doesn't normally act like this, maybe there is something wrong in his life. Try to talk to him about it. Maybe he's unhappy with work, if he's only been acting like this since he's been on vacation. But if he isn't willing to even talk about it and continues to ignore your needs, that isn't a good thing, and you need to make it very clear that you won't put up with that kind of behavior.

I'm sorry but there's one thing that AngelRho keeps bringing up that I strongly disagree with and there's a good reason for that, I think that it's terrible advice. I may have said that I disagree with it before but after what has now recently happened with him thinking that you had tried end the relationship, I now really feel that I have to speak up about it. AngelRho's advice about ending the engagement seems to be based on an assumption that couples can continue a relationship after ending the engagement. Sorry but I think that this assumption is wrong because to the majority of people who have made the decision to be engaged, breaking off an engagement is a permanent decision to end the relationship, it usually means that they will not be getting back together at any time in the future. Therefore, people should only break off an engagement when they are absolutely certain that they do not want to marry the person. If you brake off the engagement like what AngelRho suggests, then he most definitely will see that as permanently ending the relationship like he did earlier and this time he won't be wrong because that's actually how most people would see it.

Also, the situation that you have now, that you're living together and engaged, is actually better, in a sense, than what you would have if you decided to live separately at this point in time. The reason being that at least now you have a chance to try and work through issues related to being in an AS/NT relationship as well having a chance to experience what a marriage would be like before making the final decision to get married. It's like buying a car and taking it on a test drive before making the final purchase.

Read the whole thread. He is trying to meet her needs and she's trying to meet his. The issue is mainly about communicating what their needs are and the relationship has already improved from the suggestions already given.

Sorry, I had this typed up and came back to send it later. The thread escalated a lot between then and now.

Jono, I'd just spent some 15+ minutes attacking the logical failures in your response when I deleted about 2-pages worth of dissecting your post in favor of something much, much more important than the fact that you're not even wrong.

The most significant logical failing is that ending an engagement NECESSARILY ends the relationship. This isn't even REMOTELY true. These two people cannot get married and reasonably expect to be happy together. Look at the facts:

1. She's hurting.
2. He mistreats/abuses her.
3. He ignores her in favor of playing a game, resorts to #2 when interrupted.
4. He doesn't allow her to communicate how she feels about the relationship.
5. He doesn't accept her attempts to help or understand him.
6. She's overworked between jobs and school, and he still expects her to baby him.
7. Her life and/or well-being is at risk as long as she's with this guy.
8. She cannot accept him for who he is.

There is no relationship here, anyway. The facts firmly establish that. Seriously, downgrading from "engaged" to "in a relationship" would only be an improvement since at least simply being bf/gf establishes some foundation for a serious relationship

The thing is, when one is engaged, one expects exclusivity that could potentially lead to a lifelong LTR along with all the benefits that go with it. What you agree to with someone in that kind of relationship might just as well be law. You must accept this person as he or she is under the assumption that he or she will not change. It's too late to "work on your communication."

When someone is simply bf/gf, the underlying assumption is that the relationship COULD possibly change based on any number of circumstances. You're allowed to cheat on someone, for instance, without fear of consequences. It's not a nice thing to do, granted, and it might spell the end of your relationship. But you do have a way out.

Being engaged, it is assumed that marriage is your intended goal and that the engagement period is there in order for two people to tie up loose ends and make preparations for the marriage arrangement, such as whose apartment you're going to live in, how close you want to be to your in-laws, how you intend to handle finances/debt, and so forth. It's not just try-before-you-buy. It's not just making wedding plans. It's "contract pending." It's not an appropriate time to discuss potential deal breakers.

If there is abuse and abject refusal to communicate, you don't need to be "all in" with a relationship. You need to have the option of leaving. We're having issues, those issues thus far are unresolvable, and I'm unwilling to commit to an unlivable situation AT THIS TIME. I need to be in a situation in which there are no expectations, where I/we can explore whether we really do have a mutually beneficial future together, or if we're simply incompatible and need to part on good terms while we still can. There's nothing at all wrong or traumatic about that…I've ended a relationship before in which I was so crazy in love with the girl, and she seemed to feel the same way about me, but we could both see that we had no future together. I was the one who initiated the breakup and probably cried the most. We haven't spoken in a long time, but we'd be on great terms if we did speak again, and I still consider her a good friend. It's those bittersweet moments that resonate in my mind the most, and I cherish them every day. You won't always get that, but it is so much better than having to endure waiting periods to finalize divorces and having to get a judge to tell you what to do with half your stuff.

On THAT note…if you're going to be in a LTR, you do need to get married precisely BECAUSE if you must split, you CAN get a judge to tell both of you what to do with half your stuff. I'm just saying it's best not to let it go there if the situation is unlivable.

Which brings me back to Angel2. Her situation is not livable. She wants to change him or try to change herself to both get what she wants from him and keep him happy at the same time. They either are not compatible or they are in a living situation that doesn't allow them to be compatible at this time. They need to at least consider they may not be right for each other. If they dial their "relationship" if you can call it that back to merely bf/gf, they won't have the pressure of assuming that their relationship necessarily has a future. Right now, they are assuming they DO have a future, and they are making that assumption under what seems to me quite dangerous circumstances.

This is the kind of crap you hear about in the news when someone kills his children before turning the gun on his SO and finally himself. I actually do hope I'm wrong. But as I see it, this can only end in tears.

Tell ya what…I think we need some mood music.

If my fiance came to me and said that s/he was calling off the engagement, I wouldn't think that meant "Let's not get married for a few months", I would think that means "This is Step 1, and next week I'll be asking you to get your crap out of the house". Stepping down a relationship almost always leads to it ending. It's like when a highschool couple decides to "take a break" - rarely rarely do those relationships get back together.

It may be illogical; I'll give AngelRho that. In reality, calling off the engagement is, simply, saying that you don't want to marry at this time, but may in the future. However, relationships are a lot more than logic, and in that "more than logic" realm, calling off the engagement is a likely indicator of ending the relationship.

So, I wouldn't call off an engagement unless I was calling off a relationship. Maybe delay a wedding date, if they had one planned soon, but I don't think I've seen any mention of a wedding date, so that won't be an issue. It sounds as if OP and her fiance do still plan to marry, so I don't think that a commitment to marry is fraudulent, even though the timing isn't correct right now. (Think about it - in some cultures, people get engaged as infants, even though they know they can't marry for years, so an engagement is a promise for the future, not a guarantee that it can be acted on immediately.)

I also agree that living together is a useful thing in this circumstance - if your goal is to learn to be able to be a happy married couple someday, then reducing your interaction to the point that you just have to put on a show once a week on a date would be counter-productive.

I'll concede that, in practical terms, calling off an engagement often does lead to a breakup. What I'm addressing is a concern that perhaps this relationship was not a good idea to begin with. I have a suspicion that Angel2 hasn't been in a relationship with her fiancé for very long, and given her circumstances I don't understand the rush to become engaged and make serious plans to be married. Her current situation is unlivable, a fact that is being completely ignored in this thread.

I'd look at calling off the engagement as a means of reevaluating the relationship as a whole. When an engagement is called off, particularly in a situation like this in which the relationship is already in peril (or virtually nonexistent), and the parties are able to objectively reevaluate what they're even doing together, they can look at the reality of their situation and adequately assess that they are incompatible and continuing together does more harm than good. THAT is why people who break off engagements ultimately end the relationship. They had no business being together in the first place, they learned, almost too late, that mistakes were made, and they end up better off without each other.

Now, I'm not telling her that this necessarily applies to HER. I don't think she's an exception to the rule, but I'm open to entertaining the possibility. It's a test. If they can survive breaking off the engagement, they can try again later and turn it into something positive.

She has not considered, as far as any of us can tell, that they just might not be good for each other. I'm open to being wrong. But I've seen this kind of thing numerous times before. I think he's controlling her. I think he's manipulating her. I think he's coercing her. I think it's an extreme situation and, more than anything else, what Angel2 needs to hear from me (if no one else) is that it's OK to walk out. She's putting herself at high personal risk--or at best she's committing to lifelong misery. When I was in a similar situation, I started out with the attitude that I'd rather be dead THAN alone. When I was ready to end the relationship some 5 or 6 years later, my attitude shifted to I'd rather be dead OR alone.

I don't mean to sound like a pessimist. I'm an optimist, a glass-half-full kind of guy. And what keeps me optimistic in THIS situation is that her guy CAN change if he wants to. DOES he want to change? WILL he change? Is that worth waiting for? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I'm not her, nor am I involved in her relationship. She has to decide that for herself.

Speaking of that "more than logic realm," here is my purely subjective, counts-for-absolutely-nothing feeeeeeeling about what she's doing by staying with this guy: It's suicide in slow motion. It's like I'm hanging out with Andy Warhol at the Factory watching young women destroy themselves. It's horrible. It's like passing by roadkill or a horrific traffic accident. You know you shouldn't look, but you just feel compelled to. Your conscience says "don't slow down, don't look, don't say anything, just keep going," but somehow you just can't. Moth to a flame. Maybe I get some bizarre Freudian gratification out of it, I dunno. But everything about this just screams tragedy of epic proportions. Heck, Biblical proportions. And just like everyone else, I can't seem to turn away from it. But maybe, just maybe the driver on an icy bridge will take his foot off the brake, turn into the skid, and regain control. Maybe, just maybe it's not too late to turn the Titanic around. Maybe there's just enough time to make it to the boat before the volcano blows. Logical or not, all I can do is pray and keep praying, hope and keep hoping. My fascination with disaster is tempered by my equal and opposite disgust for it.

The farming is in an mmorpg (online game), not Farmville style though.

Seeing the statement that I don't accept him for he is, my first reaction was feeling insulted, but I suppose I don't in a way. I don't completely accept how he is because of the anger that he has, to me its completely blown out of proportion at times. Tonight he got angry because a spatula got stuck to the stove or something, he picked it up, threw it into the sink which broke 2 dishes. He went into his room ticked off, I waited a bit then went to him and suggested to him that he should try to look into some websites about self control and he started cursing 'f^&% you B#%%#!', told me to go away so I went into the living room and have been not speaking to him until he decides to calm down because if I cant talk to him there is no point to me accomplishing nothing but making him more upset right now.

The more he curses at me, the more I want to just leave. I really don't want to give up on him....I really don't... I want things to work out that he AT LEAST listens to me and attempts to work on his problems. He knows he has problems, and I KNOW they bother him, he's TOLD me that it does, but it seems like he doesn't want to be bothered with looking at himself in the mirror and saying 'I can change'. He seems to just want others to do the work for him. He gets sad because his daughters don't open up to him, but he never sees that when they do try to he acts like he doesn't want to be bothered. They don't understand how he is at all, they are too young to so they just try to avoid any type of communication with him, asking me to ask him questions that they have.

When he is sweet its such a warm feeling, I feel safe, but when he gets into his insulting and anger filled moods he is intolerable. One thing I absolutely hate is someone cursing at me, I don't curse and try hard not to insult people, but he refuses to even apologize when he knows he hurts me, he just says that its my fault that he curses so stop doing things to make him curse. When I tell him my opinion and he doesn't agree with it he tells me to be quiet, when I just stop talking he gets annoyed that im not giving him any input. There is no winning for me, and there are only so many chances I can give him.

I am kind of glad that there is no date set yet, and he hasn't gotten me a ring yet so I wont feel bad that he bought me something like that if things don't work out. There are so many things I like about him, but the bad stuff is starting to become too much.

Thank you all for continuing to give me your opinions, it really is being helpful because there are varying and good viewpoints in many directions. It helps me 'weigh the pros and cons' so to speak by allowing me to read how things are seen in someone elses eyes.

I wouldn't speak to any woman that way if I was forced to at gunpoint. Fellow guys, yes, but only once or twice upon encountering self-important dolts. In my amateur opinion this sounds a lot more like Borderline Personality or a manifestation of chronic anxiety than anything I've seen often with ASDers. Tell the kids you're happy to help them and either show him what happens if he doesn't learn to chill or walk away.

The things he's said to you are, to be honest, horrible and disrespectful. If he's like this now, imagine if you've been married for years? If you already are unhappy and thinking about leaving, it can only get worse with time.

My mom married a man with anger issues. She became so unhappy, but they had a kid together (my brother), and because of financial reasons she hasn't been able to leave. They almost never talk. He's just "around". And they aren't happier for being together. He's sweet to her sometimes, but only when HE feels like it. It's been terrible for her self esteem.

I'm not say you should get up and walk out RIGHT now. But you MUST stick up for yourself. Tell him his behavior is unacceptable, and if he doesn't do something about it, you won't have a choice but to leave. And if he won't, realize you can't force him to change, either for his good or yours. And if he won't even listen to you on an important issue like this, then he may not be the right man for you. But, it's up to you to decide for yourself, just like its up to him to decide to change his behavior or not.

Also, acting sweet "sometimes" can be a form of manipulation and a sign of an abusive relationship.

5. He will be sweet and caring -- sometimes. He will be the sweet, loving man who everyone else sees, and who you fell in love with. But, sometimes, he will become the man who puts you down, makes you feel guilty, and isolates you. He will make you believe that if you just did something differently, loved him more, or treated him better, he would be that sweet, loving man all the time. You will stay because of your hope for the man you love, but will spend most of your time being controlled by the man who hurts you. Eventually, you won't be able to tell the difference.

That last bit is from a site listing early warning signs of an abusive relationship. It seems like he may display the others as well.