How does one behave on a 'second date'?

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Personally, I'd want to know why it's so important to verbalize it? I don't like getting into relationships through brute force, although I've done that before. It just doesn't work all that much.

What I mean is there was this girl once. She was a few years younger than I. I'd had a lot of experience, she hadn't so much as kissed a guy, let alone ever had a boyfriend. I took her out once, and on the way home I just couldn't help it. I went total psycho and told her how much I really, REALLY liked her. Things moved rather quickly after that.

But for me, that's a very unusual way to get into a relationship. It worked ONCE. If you aren't very confident or you aren't very good at gauging how things are going on her end, why rock the boat? The weirdness of making your intentions known and not knowing if your feelings are reciprocated is going to push her away. If you have a good thing going, it's best not to "lock it in" by bringing up this whole "dating" business. You say you aren't trying to push things, that you're taking it slow, but you're really not.

What I'd say is let things progress a little more naturally without demanding an answer for anything. Don't call it a date. Just be content to let it BE (unspoken) a date. If you're always hanging out, you're de facto exclusive. She's going to wake up one day and ask herself, "Wait, do I have a boyfriend? Is this a relationship? Holy crap, how did this happen?" Until that time comes, let it "just be" what it is.

Now, I do agree you need to put a time table on it. If you've seen each other regularly for 6-8 weeks and she's not seeing anyone else, lean in for kiss. Give her time and space enough to back away if she doesn't want that. If the most you get is she ducks her head, turns away, or whatever and all you get is forehead or cheek, then you have your answer. Beyond that, I wouldn't try to continue for more than another month, because then she's just wasting your time. It'll be YOUR turn to put her in the friendzone. If it were me and I got that first kiss, I'd wait a week until I got another date or two and another smooch or two before I bring up "dating" or LTR. I'd be, like, "OK, this is probably a stupid question, but if people ask if you're my gf, is it ok if I tell them that you are?"

For now, just "hang out" or "go out" for a few more weeks. Don't bring up the topic of "dating." You've got a good thing going. Don't mess it up too early in the game. Make it last. You've GOT a date right now. Don't run the risk of running her off by verbalizing it. If you're going to run her off, save it for a point in time when most people are, like, "put up or shut up." If you really want a relationship with her, don't drag this out past 3 months. If a girl is just stringing ME along and I'd already brought up the prospect of a serious relationship, I'd find some polite way of letting her know that I can't see her next week because I made plans with someone else, but maybe we can do lunch or something. Fish or cut bait (i.e. make a decision, do something worthwhile. You can't always have it both ways).

Heh…I'll be back in a month to see how you're doing.

I'm happy to be seeing her and all, it's just like I keep stating, she really DOESN'T see what we are doing as 'dates'.

I really would just like to confirm things so we can agree on something and not have any miscommunications.

But, I can't help but like your ideas and agree with your points.

I am rushing things...

It's been 1 month and 1 day so far.

Just how much longer should I let things string along?

Like I said, that's all I really want: To go from two friends hanging out, to two people dating and seeing how far they can go.

Two people getting to know each other to determine if they would like to start a relationship or not.

This is obviously different than just two friends hanging out.

"Let's be friends and go have fun" vs. "I'd like to get to know you better to see if we have chemistry and things in common."

I don't have to verbalize it, but how can I give her the idea that I'm not just seeing her as a friend trying to hang out with her, but as a potential boyfriend trying to get to know her better and 'seeing how things' go...

Should I just be subtle?

Like, for example I kept trying to insist I pay. Maybe I could just say 'Look I just think when someone asks someone else out on a date, the asker should pay' which indicates that obviously i am the asker and a date is what we are doing...

My husband and I started out as just friends. When we first met, we were hanging out with a group. From there, we realized we preferred hanging out with each other more than the other people in the group, so we began hanging out just the two of us. We were close friends and talked about all kinds of stuff. But, I had my eyes on a couple of other guys for a while and even thought about ditching relationships altogether. A couple of other guys had their eyes on me, too, but I was not interested.

Anyways, this went on for about 2-3 months (that we were hanging out "just us".) He then said to me once, "You know, I think we might have more than a friendship going on." And I responded, "I have absolutely no interest in dating you whatsoever." (These are exact words.) Well, he was pretty determined and brought up the subject again a couple of weeks or a month later, and I said I'd think about it. After that, I decided "OK" and we were in a relationship. Then we ended up getting married.

So kudos to my husband for being determined, but also for not rushing things either. He waited until our relationship was pretty deep before bringing things up. And what I mean by deep is what kinds of things we were sharing with each other.

You don't want to pick the fruit before it's ripe, which is what you'd be doing if you tried to force the issue into something "definite" too soon.

I also briefly was "in a relationship" with a very nice boy in high school. But, the relationship got way too intense too fast for me, and I freaked. What I mean by intense was that *everyone* knew we were a "thing" and I didn't want to be a "thing" in public so soon or have to answer all kinds of questions about it and so forth. Even though I liked the kid, I broke up with him because I couldn't take the pressure.

Take it easy. Even if you get "friendzoned", a good friend is an AMAZING GIFT. Believe me. You might have to set your eyes on another girl for girlfriend material, but then likely you'd have a good friend to bounce things off of and get a female's perspective on it. You are not going to lose anything here. What you gain is either a good friend or a girlfriend, which are both valuable. If you look at this girl and think, "You are only valuable to me if you want to be my girlfriend", then you don't really love her.

Talk about getting "friendzoned" - One of my two real friends in high school was a boy. I probably would have dated him if he wanted to. He wouldn't even take me to the prom, though, because his life's plan was to become a priest and (he said), "If we go to the prom, I would want to date you, then I'd probably want to marry you, then I wouldn't be able to become a priest." OK, then... But I still greatly valued his friendship and have fond memories to this day.

I think that you can get a clue as to whether or not she might be interested in relationship with you is by taking notice of how other people see your interactions with her. We don't pick up non-verbal body language that well but NT's do. You said previously that this girl has told you that other people are getting the "wrong idea" and they think you're flirting. That tells me that other people are already getting the vibe of you and her starting to have a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship even if, at this time, she doesn't see it that way. You could ask a friend, if you're not sure.

If she doesn't see your past meet ups as dates then what I'd suggest is to ask her if she would be interested in dating. If you just ask her if she would be interested, then it doesn't have to put pressure on her in any way, you can tell her that you can take it slowly if that's what she wants. If she tells you that she's only interested in being friends, then at least you know but from what you've said previously, I think that she might be interested if she doesn't see it as a relationship at the moment.

Thank you for the input @nerdygirl. When you say being friends I have begun to accept being okay with being just friends with her, but still would prefer to have a relationship first and foremost.

I'm seeing that I am rushing things. I would rather end up having a good friend than scaring her off completely by rushing things.

But I still do wish these was just some way to help give her the hint.

It's not like I'm just going to say 'I love you' or anything.

Maybe I should wait another 2-4 weeks and get to know her better.

But like I said i'd prefer not to be just two friends hanging out, but 'two people getting to know each other to see how things will go and what might happen.'

Again, I still think it is a different thing to a friendship.

Instead of her believing I only want to be friends I'd prefer to somehow make her think it could go in either direction (and I am happy with either direction. The point is I still kind of want it to be able to go either way and not just one straight line).

It sounds to me like the way things are going right now, the end is "open" and the relationship could go either way. I'd let her take the lead. What I mean by that is watch her for cues rather than going by your own desire for knowing where the relationship is "at." Certainly you can continue to ask her to do stuff, and you could even mix up the variety of activities, some being more "date-ish" as time goes on, and you could increase the frequency little by little. If she balks at a suggestion, you know you went too far so back off a little. Also, let her lead regarding to depth. You can try sharing more personal stuff. If she doesn't respond in like manner, she's not ready. So, you know to not go there yet. Basically, you don't want to "push her into deep water."

All easier said than done, I know!

Last edited by nerdygirl on 25 Mar 2015, 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

I said this in an earlier post but she has said she ends up flirting with people without even realizing. And no she isn't emotionally interested the same way as I am. I have tried flirting with her and she has not returned the feelings. For example when I saw her the other day I immitated her pretending to type on her laptop. I said "Ty (me) was always the handsome, sweet, caring gentelmen I thought he was". If she felt emotionally the same she might have agreed, instead she said she would describe me as 'stubborn' and 'stuck-up'. She took back her stuck-up comment but still thinks i'm stubborn. I've tried playing 'footsie' with her (touching feet and pretending not to realize) but she has moved her feet away. When I say 'Can't wait to see you there!' when we have organized a meetup she doesn't sound as enthusiastic. I could go on and on.

Yes N.T's are better at seeing 'the signs' than us but she admitted she flirts accidentally and I can just tell she only sees me as a friend.

But, wait a minute: Are you saying, whether she conciously knows it or not, that even though she might only see me personally as a friend, that she might still sub-conciously be open to the idea of a relationship?

I like you're thinking and agree.

This is my aim - she only sees me as a friend, sure, but I need to strategically alter the situation. I need to make sure at the current moment we could still go in TWO directions - that we might end up dating, or just good friends. Either one is good, but I prefer to date her.

"If she doesn't see your past meet ups as dates then what I'd suggest is to ask her if she would be interested in dating. If you just ask her if she would be interested, then it doesn't have to put pressure on her in any way, you can tell her that you can take it slowly if that's what she wants. If she tells you that she's only interested in being friends, then at least you know but from what you've said previously, I think that she might be interested if she doesn't see it as a relationship at the moment."

Yes, I could just do that tbh. Just casually ask if she would be interested in dating.

I hate to sound selfish and inconsiderate, but if we only abide by her own terms and she's only interested in a friendship, then it will most likely only be a friendship.

But, you're right. Who knows. It's possible even if she only sees me as a friend, she still is open to the idea of dating me, and, once she's gotten to know me a bit better and made a reasonable judgement she really could be the one who ends up deciding if we can start dating or not.

Heck, I'm a little embarrassed to admit it, but SHE was the one who pursued ME of some sorts.

When my feelings first began she mentioned how she was a published author (she wrote a children's story that got published) and I complimented her on it. I casually mentioned my own story, and instantly she was excited by the fact that I am a writer and wanted to see my work. I accepted.

Later on sometimes she started talking to me first, sometimes I started talking to her first.

She actually looked me up on facebook first (I tried but couldn't find her because she has a fake name) and I suggested she send me a friend request.

The next few weeks I managed to find my way into her social circle and strike up a hangout over coffee.

But yes i agree.

I edited my post, so maybe some of the other stuff I said would be helpful.

But in the end, you can't make a relationship happen if the other person isn't interested. There are three ways this could go: 1) a relationship, 2) a friendship, 3) neither a relationship or a friendship.

The question is if you are OK with #2. If you push it too much, you will get #3, and that would be a lose-lose situation. Having a friend is better than having neither.

Being patient and doing things according to her preferences will show a different side of you than "stubborn." It could be a very good thing!

Thank you. I really can't pressure her and this is what I am not recognizing well enough.

It's not about what I want purely, but also what she wants.

Well then, I'm going to continue seeing her and behaving the same way in the next 2-4 weeks. When this time is up, we will see where things have gone.

I am okay with #2, it's just I'd prefer #1. I still want to try to tip the scale slightly more in the direction of 1 without forcing her to date me.

Like I said in a much earlier post I am 75% natural, 25% planning.

Maybe this can be altered to: 75% natural (what she wants and what will naturally happen) 25% planning (what I want, through *just* tipping the scale to lean more to #1).

Is this really too much? Should I just be completely natural regarding this?

Alright, thank you.

One thing I forgot to mention was, she is a very open girl, this is for sure.

Apparently her friends are all shocked at just how personal her conversations get with others.

Last time she ended up telling me she has ADD, she is Bisexual, and all kinds of other things you wouldn't expect someone to tell you so early on.

She actually shares more personal things than me.

It's possible she really does just talk about all kinds of things regardless of how deep or personal, or I could even be an exception. Who knows.

Alright, I agree. I'll see her for a few more weeks, change up locations, behave the same as always and see how things happen.

Alright, I'm going to mix these ideas all-together.

So, I should continue seeing her for 2-4 weeks, and if things feel right maybe even attempt to initiate a kiss or other things that move a relationship forward like AngelRho said.

I will slowly shorten the time-spans between our meetups and see where things go.

How should I ask her if she is interested in beginning to date? Ask her casually or like I said?

Don't push for more than two dates a week. If she takes the initiative and wants to hang out more than that, fine. Just remember, "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and "familiarity breeds contempt."

As to how you should ask her…DON'T. If you're regularly seeing each other once or more a week, as in "going-out" seeing each other "like" a date-date but NOT a "date-date"…I'm sorry, you're freakin' dating. She's just not ready to admit it yet. Don't scare her away by bringing up something she doesn't want to admit to.

If she mentions that people are getting the wrong idea, just ask her what's so wrong about it. You could tell her you wouldn't mind it being more than just friends. But, again, she needs to be the one who brings this up. Don't push it.

But, yeah…give this a month and see if she lets you hold her hand or something. If that goes ok, try to kiss her and see how that goes. If she's not into hand-holding, she won't be up for kissing, and if she's not up for that, then it's safe to say she's not into a relationship thing with you. And it doesn't have to be a physical thing, either…if she's into you emotionally and just doesn't like physical contact, you can still have a relationship that way. A weird relationship, but a relationship of the romantic variety. That's something the two of you will have to work out, not exactly something any of us can advise you on.

Thank you I agree.

Well then yes if she ever brings it up that she's annoyed with other people seeing us the 'wrong way' I could say I don't think there's anything wrong with that and, who knows, they could be RIGHT.

She hasn't seen our 'hangouts' as dates but we have never specifically said they were one or the other.

I think many people would see someone asking you out somewhere and trying very hard to pay for you instead of letting you pay for yourself has to mean something.

Well…you paying is a good thing. You're on the right track. I don't subscribe to the idea that a "free lunch," figuratively or literally, entitles anyone to anything. It makes most people uncomfortable, at least on a subconscious level, and some people use it outright to manipulate others. I don't think you're doing this, so you probably have the right mindset. You're "compensating" her for bothering to keep you company. That's always a good thing.

But nobody likes to waste other people's time. Sooner or later, it's going to come down to whether she returns the interest you show in her. If this is going nowhere, it's going to be a bad idea to keep hanging out. Because she's no longer someone you just enjoy hanging with. Now she's a bum.

No, you understand what I'm talking about, so stay the course. Can't wait to see what happens by the end of April. This is the stuff they make movies about. Will the guy get the girl, or is this going to blow up in his face? Come back next week for another EXCITING episode of...

AngelRho, you might be right when you say she does have feelings for me back (to some extent). Or I am just misintrepreting things.

There is something today I only just realized - I *THINK* she flirts back with me, whether she intends to or not.

The thing is, she likes to make a lot of dirty jokes or jokes related to touching or other physical affections.

She's told me she just has a 'dirty mind' which I believe, but, who knows, it's possible she makes dirty jokes around me more than other people, whether she realizes it or not.

I could be an exception or just not. But either way, it's possible. Even slightly. Most often she would twist something I say into inappropriate jokes or puns.

The reason I think it's interesting is because her dirty jokes are focused on me. She made one joke which refferred to me having you-know-what with another male. as in, she's not just making general jokes but actually jokes about something happening to me or me doing something physical. I am the subject of her dirty jokes she makes to me.

She denied me when I flirted back, but who knows she could be in denial. For example I asked her "What, you like to think of what I like to do with myself in my spare time' or 'you think about me, naked with other men' and stuff like that but she has denied all this.

I have been the one to initiate physical contact though - she has never tried to touch me first.

But, I've figured something out: It's possible we really are both flirting with each other without even realizing, and like you said earlier others have picked up on this.

Basically:

1. She might have feelings for me without even realizing, and this is shown in her behavior.

2. She might not have feelings for me and realizes this, but still doesn't realise she may behave or come across in flirty ways.

3. I myself might be flirting with her without even realizing. I sometimes try to flirt on purpose but I might also be doing it not on purpose.

4. Other people may have picked up on our behavior, possibly even more people than I might have realized (or less).

5. She obviously feels something towards me. Even if she only sees me as a friend. It's true. Why would she bother to see a random stranger she barely knows and only really talked to a few weeks ago? She obviously likes me. At the very least she sees me as a friend. Why would she be alright with continuing to see me?

So, the theories:

1. She is only seeing me and speaking to me out of politeness.

2. She at the very least sees me as a friend, and nothing more. I'd be okay with being just friends, but like I mentioned in an earlier post I'd like to tip the scale so it's leaning more in the relationship direction.

3. She is unsure of her own feelings for me.

4. She has feelings for me but hasn't realized yet or is beginning to develop feelings for me (perhaps by seeing her more she might end up developing feelings for me or if she has even slight feelings they will develop further. These feelings might be expressed in her actions more than she realizes.

5. She does have feelings for me but isn't expressing them in a clear and direct way (e.g shyness, nervousness, etc.) She might even be unsure herself what my feelings for her are and needs to figure it out first before showing me her feelings.

The most likely one in my opinion: 2.

I'm hoping around 2.5.

Or hoping it will at least boost to 2.5 when I start seeing her more.

What does anyone else here think it might be?

I'm sorry, but I cannot just keep seeing her and HOPING things will naturally progress.

I am 75% natural, 25% planning and don't plan to change this.

I just need to know how to SUBTLY tilt the scale in the relationship direction like I said.

I'll let her take the lead and see how things go but still want to slightly tip the scale.

I'd like to date her and don't just want things to happen purely naturally.

I need to know how I might go about this. How I might let things happen naturally, but at the same time tip the scale in my direction, without it being too obvious or noticeable.

This is what I am asking for. Help to do this.

I need to try to go from 2, and boost it up to 2.5 or possibly even to 3.

How might I let things happen 75% NATURALLY, but also use 25% PLANNING to achieve this?