Toxic Masculinty

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We've been over this: they only do that because they have to, because they want to secure said desirable men's superior genes and commitment, and they know the best way to do that is through sex. If they don't put out, Chad will go out and find some other girl who will. Even then, most women only keep doing it until they get pregnant, after that they just bug off, swear off sex altogether, and go to raise their kid alone.

Whatever if I have a girlfriend and she cheats me I beat her ass.

In today's world you'll be thrown in jail on domestic violence charges and when you're out you'll have a restraining order against you plus a criminal record. I'm not trying to make a moral argument against your idea, but I'm pointing out that it's no longer possible for men to get away with this.

Funny how you continue to maintain that women are the ones who seek commitment when more more than 50% of divorces are initiated by women. She marries Joe Average thinking he's the best she can get until she meets Chad McAlpha and starts cheating on him in secret and then files for divorce by claiming falsely that her husband is abusive and controlling. And better yet, there is a highly successful and controversial online dating service called the Ashley Madison dating agency which has attracted more married women than ever looking to cheat on their husbands.

More importantly: When it comes to ultra-high status men like rock stars and professional athletes that have casual sex with women on a regular basis, their fling partners know DAMN WELL that they will never secure commitment from guys like this! But they do em anyway.

Interesting link and demonstration of how NT women work. Their main problem seems to be that they need to be regularly seduced, and this simply doesn't happen in a long-term relationship. This probably also explains why NT marriages are deteriorating at accelerating speed. I mean, the whole requirement process of what a relationship should have is cultural rather than innate, and so when people's expectations increase marriage failure rates increase too because the whole thing is setup in such a way that a failure is inevitable, the only relevant parameter is how fast it happens.

In the link the "PUA" (I'll call him that), says that there is a lot of effort in the beginning, but that this decrease as people get into relationships. I don't agree with that. I don't call an hour or two to get a woman in bed is anything like a lot of effort. Rather, what his wife claims is that he should have put the effort (in terms of a single date) into her instead. Thus, for NTs it seems like the expected effort in dating is about the same as it is when they are in a committed relationship.

That contrasts with how it works in nerodiverse relationships. In that case, there is an obsessive phase where you can easily put-down hundreds or even thousands of hours on a girl much like you would with a special interest, and thus the initial effort is much higher. To compensate for this, these obsessions disappear once you are in a relationship, because they no longer are needed when you both have a strong attachment.

It's also not very hard to avoid the NT types that need constant game-playing. All you need to do is to require some kind of persistent interest before she knows anything about you. That will effectively select out these game-players.

Except that women only want commitment from Alpha males because that's the only type that will actually boost their social status (the ultimate motivator behind most women's actions). Commitment from a Beta male isn't really worth anything to them, especially in a time where the average woman is vastly outperforming the average man both academically and professionally.

Most women are married to Beta males however, because most women ARE Beta females. And now, thanks to a totally undair and lopsided family court system, women can now force these Beta males to provide for them even after divorce, hence the rising divorce rates and why they're almost always initiated by women. It's win/win for them, they get to have a Beta paying them alimony and providing for them and they don't even have to tolerate his presence.

Also, I have no effing clue who Charles J. Orlando is, but he apparently also writes for the Good Mangina Project, which to me, means he has exactly zero credibility.

Rock stars and professional athletes are super-alphas for whom women will never obtain commitment from....And yet thousands of women would gladly have casual sex with if they get the chance!

Wanting sex and having an orgasm aren't quite the same thing. It is true that women are more likely to orgasm when they have an emotional bond with the person they sleep with but orgasms aren't necessary to get pregnant.

Again, we've been over this: even with so-called Alpha males, women only put out on a regular basis until they get pregnant with their kid. Then the Alpha's sexual buffet comes to a screeching halt. Why do you think Jesse G. James decided to cheat on Sandra Bullock with a much less-attractive woman? Because he probably hadn't been getting any from her since their kid was born.

Again, you don't get it: Monogamy in human beings is unnatural. EVEN for women. That doesn't imply that monogamy is necessarily a *bad* thing but stop maintaining falsely that women are *wired* to seek commitment. They're wired to want to sleep with men who have good genes to maximize the quality of their offspring.

But you keep trying in vain to argue that most women don't want sex just because most of em don't want to have sex with you.....

Actually, that's not true. Women are hypergamous, but they're also naturally monogamous. I believe the term is serial monogamy.



I do so love it when my opponents start trying to make it personal. It usually signifies the beginning of the end...

Again, you continue to make this assertion despite clear evidence to the contrary. And you keep dodging the issue of super-alphas(rock stars and athletes) for whom women will drop their panties in a dime for even though they know fully well that commitment & parental involvement is something they will never get from guys like this. Let the chips fall where they may...

Lol, what evidence? The word of a guy who writes for the Good Mangina Project? GTFO, man.

Also, I've already addressed that issue. Check the post where I mention the relationship between Jesse G. James and Sandra Bullock.

If you wanna bring up celebrity couples, what about the ill-fated marriage between Jordan Bratman and Christina Aguilera? She divorced him because she didn't like having to be committed to one man. And then there's Ice-T's wife Coco Marrow who cheated on him with a lesser known rapper. And Heidi Klum who cheated on her alpha hubby with a body guard and now she and the Mr have separated. If she already has a child with an alpha and has the means to provide for that child, there's no rational reason why she cannot or even wouldn't automatically want to have sex with other alphas.

The evidence comes from the active participation of women in hookup culture and the rise of single motherhood+ more and more children being born out of wedlock now that the social stigma against female non-monogamy is eroding. I hear women say they want commitment, but they really don't follow through on it. One example is my late first cousin once removed who separated from her husband after having a child because she felt that the marital expectation of commitment was too restrictive. What is the scientific evidence that women are wired for monogamy? You have not presented any such evidence; just assumptions about what women want based on 1 example.

Not sure what evidence you want, and for what. AFAIK, there are multiple (rather unrelated) issues at hand:

1. If NT women want sex, and why. The answer to that is mostly that they will if it boosts their confidence or social status. That means they don't want it for the same reason as men want it (which is mostly because of their libido).

2. If NT women want commitment. Even in the link you referred to earlier, the "PUA" guy clearly wrote that all of the women he dated actually wanted to stay with their partners, and thus they didn't want a new commitment, they just wanted to play games and have sex if they fancied the man. IOW, these women weren't primarily on the site in order to find a new man, but in order to have fun and play games.

3. If NT woman are serial-monogamy or not. The evidence that they are is in the dating-culture and that being committed to a relationship is an important issue (regardless if they get married or not). If somebody isn't (serial) monogamous, they don't need to worry about if you are together or not, which NT women (and men) worry a lot about.

When was the last time that you participated in the dating culture? And what is the age difference(if any) between you and your wife(not to mention what age you guys met)?

I personally have been actively partaking in the dating culture for the past 10-12 years and what I see in my country among women my age(and younger) is that NT women in their 20s who are not religious/conservative are not actively seeking commitment. Why? For one women are no longer economically dependent on men the way the were in bygone times(like 30++ years ago)and the widespread availability of BC and abortion on demand reduces the risk of unwanted pregnancy for young women who are not yet ready to make the sacrifices involved in having children. Most college educated women prefer to wait until age 30 at the minimum to start having children and get serious about commitment. The logic of commitment is to have someone to help them raise their children but increasingly it is no longer necessary economically for many women to do this. If a female 20something isn't interested in having kids any time soon she doesn't need a commitment unless she's the type of person who wants that kind of emotional security(which doesn't apply to a lot of young NT women). I am the furthest thing from a Pick-Up Artist, but I observe what (NT)women actually do...Including being more open about their sexual exploits. When I was in college, I was friends with quite a few women who told me that they really had no interest in long-term commitment and were dating the guys they were because they enjoyed being with them(for the time being) but didn't necessarily expect to actually marry them. It used to be in the olden days that women went to college to find a husband. But not anymore!

Early 90s. Met wife in 1991, and we married 1992. She is 7 years younger than me.

Regardless, innate preferences in women are not likely to change in a decade or two, which means I kind of doubt that a majority of NT women don't want a commitment. Culture might have moved away from the family as the natural unit, but that doesn't change people's innate preferences.