Toxic Masculinty

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Are you really that clueless(regarding the statement highlighted in bold)? Put on your thinking cap for a moment: There are lots of lonely single men ITF, and if these men were to take her word for it they'd be actively hitting on her which would stroke her ego but even if she liked some of them that way they're still too far from her physically to have a real relationship. This *is* an international forum with people posting from all over the globe, y'know. WGAF about "proof". Oh that's right, iForgot..........Internets = Srs Bzns!




In today's news: there is no difference between not wanting to date someone and holding them in contempt.[/quote]


In tomorrows news: That was all a big lie!

Is there really though? Because every guy will run into a fluke or two every now and again, that's just bound to happen, it's part of being a guy. But when your attempts to court women are consistenly (read: invariably) met with complete and utter failure, you gotta start wondering whether your problems with women aren't just on an individual basis.

I've had this problem before when I was a lad of less than 20. If you have this problem, then the most likely possibility is that you're going after the wrong kind of women(who clearly aren't that into you). You need to find women who are actually attracted to you and focus on courting *them*.

Why would I be concerned if I stroke somebody's ego or not? Isn't this what dating is all about? I mean, I'm not a person that would complement girls or buy them presents to get them where I want them, but I do like some attention from girls, and I have no problem with giving some back either.

This is a rampant problem with many of the single guys in L&D. It's so obvious when you here them complain, when they explain how they think it should be done, and how they think all girls are like.

Obviously they're not. What is not so obvious is how to find these right women and where? Is there a set of characteristics of women which are more (even if just slightly) accepting? Someone introverted maybe? Maybe a non nt (neurodiverse) woman? Another idea I had was going with the opposite of a typical aspie, someone very extroverted and loud. Yeah, it didn't sound like a good idea to me either.

Nobody likes to look at themselves as being at fault. It's always easier to put the blame elsewhere. The advice I always give is exploit the Law of Large Numbers--the more you sample something, the more likely an improbable event will occur at least once. This means for us getting to know a large number of women, e.g. meet and try to stay in regular contact with 100 women over the course of a year. Worst case scenario you'll find ONE woman you can get a date with. I didn't say "relationship," I just said one formal weekend date. And this is absolutely, scraping the bottom of the barrel, WORST case scenario. I don't actually believe the odds are necessarily THAT bad--I'd think 1 in 10 is closer to reality. But if you're aware that's the worst you could do, you're going to work hard to find that ONE woman. And if you ask 10 women out and you get one date from doing that, the idea is you'll feel encouraged to try to get another date with someone else later on or get a repeat date from the 1 out of 10 who accepted the first time. You're going to feel a lot more like moving forward once you're met with success. I also strongly advise redefining what a date is. To me, a date is nothing more than a couple of people hanging out--no expectations required. Somehow people are uncomfortable with acknowledging that meeting up for cheesecake and coffee is a date, but it is what it is. No need to make someone feel awkward by emphasizing you see that as a date, no need to miscommunicate. You know what it is, so be happy with that and leave the rest of it alone. Learn to be content with non-romantic friendships, and lots of them, until you finally meet those few people with whom there are some sparks of affection. The problem of having to choose a romantic partner among 3 or 4 candidates and being torn over it is a good problem to have.

That's my standard approach, and that's what I'll always tell people having trouble meeting moos and getting into serious relationships. Now for the bad news: What if you ask 100 women out on 3 separate occasions throughout the course of a year and you get shot down every single time? You have to be honest with yourself and admit that if things are that pathetically bad, the one thing all those women have in common is YOU asked them out. What is it that YOU have to work on to be more datable? If that's your situation, there's not going to be an easy answer to that question, the reason being we don't like to change and we don't like to admit that there's something wrong with us. You have to reach a point in your life when you say "Enough is enough. I'm DONE. I can't take this anymore. I WILL find out what the problem is, I WILL fix it, I WILL get a date." I think you either get sick of the situation or you let the situation beat you down until you give up. If you're in the "beat down" camp, you aren't ready to do what it takes to be successful in dating. And that's ok. If you lack the will or the maturity to handle dating, you don't need to look for dates. If you can admit that YOU are the problem and that YOU are the only person you have any control over, you can look at changing what you want to change and be more desirable.

The main problem holding someone back from change, in my opinion, is we encourage this culture of "be who you are" and "you're perfect the way you are, never change for anyone." Well…being who I am never got me any friends, much less dates. It's not that I really became someone else or stopped being "me" or stopped "being true to myself." For me, my journey has been all about this dichotomy between the internal self that I am and the external self everyone else sees. I don't feel that how I am around people really reflects the inward "me." This awkward, goofball persona doesn't really reflect me. So even if I'm acting natural, I'm not really being myself. So I've had to learn and accept that no matter what I do, I'm going to creep some people out. Well, easily creeped people aren't the kinds of people I care to impress, so forget about them. I want the kind of behavior from myself that doesn't punish everyone else for giving me a chance.

Of course, if it's YOUR behavior that others find creepy, take the focus away from yourself. Say less, listen more. This approach works every time. Honestly, my own mother doesn't even understand me. I can end a conversation with my mom really fast if I talk about something I did this week I thought was really cool. The second I ask how she's recovering from neck surgery or what kinds of flowers she's setting out around the house this year, or ask how my step-father is doing, she'll talk my ear off. It used to bother me. Mom would call up, we'd talk for maybe 5 minutes, and suddenly she'd be really busy and have to go. Wow, mom, you really care a lot about me, don't you? lol No, she really doesn't. But she's still my mom and I still love her. And she's getting older. The biggest favor I can do for my mom at her age is make her feel loved, worry less about her understanding me or appreciating what I do, and just get her talking.

So the bottom line is just relentlessly practice the Golden Rule. And, btw, the Golden Rule never asks for anything in return. I get free lawnmower maintenance. How? I have a neighbor who needs a lawnmower. He's good at repairing lawnmowers. So I let him use my lawnmower any time he wants. If it breaks, HE can't use it. So he keeps it running for me, and I can still cut my yard any time I want. He doesn't charge me a dime. He lives with his sister (I think). So she walks into my yard one day asking for $10. My first instinct was to say "no." My second instinct was to ask "What do you need it for?" But after I stopped and thought about it for a while, I just pulled out my wallet and handed her the last $10 I had. They are always doing things for us and they never ask for anything in return. The very least I could do is not give them a hard time over not refilling my gas can (annoying, but whatever) or grill them over a matter of $10.

Similar (non-)expectations when it comes to getting dates will be a lot more successful than otherwise. It's the unwillingness to make changes and abandon this you-owe-me attitude that kills it. Simply be a good person and SHOW others you are concerned for their welfare. That's really all you have to do. Figure out how to communicate that effectively and you'll never spend another entire weekend alone ever again.

Introverted is a good idea, especially if you cannot directly spot the neurodiverse, which probably is the best alternative.
Extroverted will probably only be a good idea if you are extroverted yourself. I don't think introverted-extroverted mixes well. OTOH, one having learnt good social skills will mix good with one that hasn't.

I agree with this. Being entitled to things is a bad approach unless you are hyper-attractive and want to scare people off.



Absolutely, and that applies if you do typical dating or prefer the method I do (nonverbal flirting and obsessing). Not expecting anything is a superior method.

I have absolutely no useful advice to give, but I'd like to say to all the lonely men on this thread, who have been mistreated by women, that I'm sorry that happened to you, and I hope you eventually find a companion who makes you happy.

I've known many women who have been so utterly brain-washed by certain aspects of modern pop-culture that they are completely incapable of identifying a "good" man when they see him. I've dubbed it "Spoiled Princess Syndrome," and I think it would be useful to have a discussion on "Toxic Femininity."

Anyway, best of luck.

That's very charitable of you, XFG. Whya bein' so nice all of the sudden?

++1 on your part for actually showing some criticism towards members of your own sex. That is very rare on WP and particularly among feminists(who often act as if women can do no wrong in order to justify women's selfish behavior). But I daresay that "Toxic Femininity" really seems to stem from the fact that a lot of women are extremely insecure. Yes, there ARE insecure men out there but confidence and emotional self-control are not things that society expects from women. I'm attracted to "strong", CONFIDENT women but these women are pretty rare.

I think a thread about toxic feminism would be more interesting. Could spur a really heated debate too.

Can't be done. Not here. It's sexist and forbidden by TOC. The mods will get you if you try it.

And you can't have a rank-and-file feminist bring it up in a Women's Discussion forum, either. It wouldn't be sexist per se because you have the right context and right person. But it would threaten the stability of the echo chamber. They'd probably get her banned for "trolling" at worst or, at best, make it really difficult for her to justify her continued existence there.

Ok. Let me point out a couple of things.

This whole subforum is an echo chamber full of men's problems, with the occasional "just be pretty if you're a woman and it's easy".

A moderator just came in and stood up for the men on this subforum.

The last person to be banned for sexist behaviour in L&D was a woman who made repeated personal attacks against men.

In PPR, there have been numerous debates on feminism.

So guess what you can do with your "feminist echo chamber" nonsense?

Open it if you want as long as it's within forum rules no one is going to be banned. If toxic masculinity can stand and be discussed here, why not toxic femininity?

Anyone else tired of the whole men against women, women against men BS? Idiots are idiots whatever gender they belong to...