Seeing all long-term relationships as fundamentally boring

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Why do I need to notice the quote marks? Is this not actually bothering you in some way? Is there some shame in being troubled by things? Because there does seem to be some internal conflict here somewhere.

Why do you assume it's the LTR that is groupthink, or blindly following? Perhaps your friends stayed swinging bachelors past their own wishes because of Snooty Guy and, when he went all in on a LTR, they finally felt (with relief) they could, too? OliveOilMom pointed out the difficulty with the idea of 'jumping into' LTRs. It's not something one can whip up or order.

I think this all-at-once is significant. You're the last man standing. The odd one out. I don't know how suited or happy your friends are to serious LTRs, but I don't doubt your certainty that they can't be happy is projection and a (conflicted) hope.



I've had three relationships. I viewed all as serious, cos that's how I am. I've rarely been single since I turned 18. Not once have I been dragged along Shoe Shopping. I have been out around town with a woman, and she has needed (not wanted) new shoes, and part of our being out has involved buying shoes. It takes all of ten minutes. Go to shoe shop, or shoe section of shop, gather what's to her taste and in her size, try them on to find the most comfortable, purchase and kthnxbai. It really depends on the personality of the woman you are drawn to and end up with.

What was your situation growing up, in terms of parents and siblings? Was that 'woman as authority figure' the structure of your household - did it look that your mom ordered your dad around, or was the killjoy? Because this sounds an awful lot like you see an SO as a mother figure. Which, to me, indicates you see yourself still as a little boy.

Which would chime in with your remark that you've only just learned what NTs have just 'known' and been doing since they were 12, and want to have some time 'playing'. And that is fine and understandable.

To be possibly crude, it sounds like you're worried mommy is going to come and take away your toys and send you to bed. Heaven knows some relationships end up like that. Most don't. One thing I'd say here is that, as that is your expectation, it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy. That you will try and force the dynamic to be what you most fear, in order to say 'see, I was right!'.

In that regard, I think you have the good sense here to see that you're not presently up to handling a serious, long term relationship.

The problem remains that there is clearly some hold the idea has over you. I think that's what you're trying to resolve here.

I'm sure by now you know intellectually, even if you can't process it emotionally, that there is nothing whatsoever in the fact of a long-term relationship that precludes playfulness. Any relationship will be what you and your partner make it. You get a say in what you want from a relationship, and in who you take as a partner.

A few pages back you said:



I don't know your grandmother, but I think you've misunderstood her hugely, and from there followed a series of non-sequiters to a vision of doom. I assume that you think she said you don't matter, only the feelings of your SO matter. Again, you knew her, I didn't, but I really doubt she'd have said that. I doubt anyone would say that to a boy (I could see a patriarchal arrangement where it was said from Gran to girl).

So, we have a possible misunderstanding where you think you have to give up your 'self' and become an appendage to your SO, and a concept of that SO as an authoritarian mother. I agree, that sounds awful.

How about this: when you are looking for someone to be with long-term, finding someone who shares your interests isn't important. What's important is how you feel about each other.

Is that any better? That slight rearrangement seems clearer to me, and a lot less imposing. I would still disagree with it, but it lacks the death-sentence quality you attribute to the original.

There's nothing there that stops you from doing the things you enjoy, nor from having 'fun' (there was nothing like that in the original either, but I can see room for misunderstanding). People in long-term relationships act goofy and have fun all the time.

Growing up with a single mother, my model for a relationship was my maternal grandparents. They were in their 60s by the time I was aware of them, their 70s when I really took notice. On the one hand, taking a pensioner couple who've been married at least 30 years as an example may lead to odd expectations of youthful, newly-formed romance. But on the other hand, up until their very final years, when illness became more of an issue, they never stopped being playful and loving. There was always laughter in their house and their lives. I never knew a harsh word spoken or bitterness held, never saw anything but complete support and concern, tenderness and light-hearted teasing, and any number of running jokes.

(Had the model been my mother's relationship with the man she met when I was 11 and who is now [eesh] my stepdad, I'd have seen a woman fawning over a man who treats her like s**t and doing all she can to keep him at the expense of her children and her friends. Had I been taken with the model of my father's with his second wife, I'd have seen a man who confuses doing all he can to avoid spending time with his wife and kids with a work ethic, and a woman whose joys are kept to a minimum. As much trouble as I've had, either of these templates would have been a thousand times worse)

I think you would benefit from some serious thinking about your preconceptions and attitudes to a long-term relationship, because life happens and, before you know it, you could end up shooting yourself in the foot (as well as hurting someone you care about). I get the impression you want a care-free life, but I question how care-free it can be if you're avoiding spending time and sleeping with someone incase it becomes serious, coming out in hives at the very thought of an LTR.

I also think you need a model of long-term relationships that at least doesn't give you The Fear, and maybe even inspires and interests you.

That is not what my relationship is like...me and my boyfriend might hang out with other people, but not in a formal dinner party way. And among my circle its maybe who's rented a new place or moved in with someone as a room-mate. That is what a relationship is like if you're trying to keep up appearances...and maybe your friends have grown to like the 'normal' lifestyle and feel it makes them more grown up or something, or maybe they are unhappy and just going with it out of social pressure. If they are arguing with their girlfriends a lot or complaining about them then its probably the latter.

You just have to find a girl who dislikes that kind of lifestyle as much as you do, and who doesn't care so much about normalcy and isn't trying to emulate their parents 'grown up' lifestyle and keeping to what is 'proper' according to them...if that makes any sense. I know I'd much rather listen to some metal and drink some beers with my boyfriend than go to some dinner party. And I don't expect him to keep up social appearances so we appear perfectly 'normal', that would be pretty mudane and I think we'd both fail at keeping that up anyways.

If the relationship is that boring then you're probably not with the right person. There are plenty of women out there who are happy to be spontaneous or don't want to be with you 24/7 (find an introvert, or someone emotionally secure). I sure as hell don't want to see my spouse all the time. Both people should have lives and friendships outside of their own relationship.

Many have tried to convince you to get into a relationship, but there ARE many pitfalls out there.

Someone in a good relationship telling you that relationships are just fine,
is like a successful actor telling you to get into acting (even though the screen actors guild reports an 85% unemployment rate among actors)


Many partners want to play power games, get competitive with you, turn people against you (even your own children)

I think there are warning signs but are you savvy enough to know what they are?

You could Google it (warning signs of a bad spouse) for example, there is a lot of good information on relationships available these days online.
Most people are not warned about these things and end up trusting any random person.

You have personally observed the abrasive girlfriends of your friends, don't let anyone make you doubt your own senses!

These girlfriends are acting badly.

Look at the way a potential spouse treats other people, they will treat you like that when they are comfortable with you.

Now why you wanna go and do a thing like that? If anything, you made me exponentially more terrified of an LTR. All I could glean from your post is "love", "love", "love". Not one calming word to be found! Words like "single", or "playful", or even "train". (I like trains.) So if you're hoping to hypnotize me into having an LRT through repetition, I'm too smart to be hypnotized. Even though I am being kind of astute here.

What's ironic is that back when I was 18, I wanted a long term committed relationship more than anything. With any willing taker . So when I found my first girlfriend (sort of), I planned on staying in the relationship for years. It barely lasted three months! Although when I look back, I probably wanted an LTR for all the wrong reasons: I felt that flings, PUA tactics, and flirting were way, way beyond my abilities. But somehow, in my mind, an LTR wasn't. So I felt like it was my only option for experiencing female company. As later life experiences taught me, boy, was I wrong.

Another things that puts me off an LTR even further is a great experience I had this past Saturday. I found out about a singles' party, hosted by a professional matchmaking company. Imagine the irony and my surprise, when I found out that it was held in a conference room of the hotel where I had sex with an escort not too long ago. I even took the same rail line to get there. When I arrived, I saw an unusually young crowd (some as young as 24); the hostess even told me that was uncommon. There was a bar, but people didn't seem all that drunk, just very lively. Although perhaps the hotel itself was triggering escort flashbacks, which sent my own mood soaring and caused the whole room to take on a happy, surreal glow.

Everybody at the party was so friendly! There was a 5:4 gender ratio in the men's favor, which affected the women's behavior. I found an inordinate amount of kino going around. Mostly little things, like arm or shoulder touches, that I found strangely endearing. One girl, who was about 26, randomly threw her arms around me and another guy I was talking to, as a way of starting a conversation with us. The feisty, yet innocent "opening line" she used was enough to melt my jaded 32-year-old heart. Other girls I met acted in similar ways, although it was mostly conversations and friendly banter. The whole time, I couldn't help but realize that I could never have this much fun in an LTR. I smiled though the entire train ride home, despite sitting in an empty car at 1:00 AM. I could never do that with an SO, because I'm pretty sure she'd make me drive.

I can relate to you Aspie1, though perhaps that's just because I'm still young.

I too desire the same sort of relationship - fun and adventurous.

And to the people who argue a relationships is about 'love' and you would enjoy a relationship even if you just sat around at home all the time together, because it's THEM you enjoy, well, sometimes 'love' just doesn't cut it.

One should not have to sacrifice one's happiness and enjoyment in life to be in a relationship.

My friends are all extremely introverted homebodies who never leave the house.

When I spend time with them, I quickly get bored as f*ck and end p being the one to drag them along when we go out somewhere.

If I couldn't handle being friends with stay-at-homes without dragging them along for the ride, I couldn't possibly date one.

Also, I don't want to date a girl who I do have to drag along and make en effort to get her to go out to places with me, I do that enough with my friends and it frustrates me that all the effort and responsibility is placed on me to get out of the house because I'm the only one who genuinely wants to do it most of the time.

I'd want a girlfriend who is just as eager as I am to live more adventurous lifestyle.

Now, yes, you can argue to just find someone with similar values, but what me and Aspie1 I think both have realized, is that it's actually HARD to find these types of women, surprisingly at both of our completely different ages.

Girls my age mostly just spend time on their cell phones socializing, or going out with their groups of friends to the shopping centre and such (shopping centre to me is a boring snoozefest and waste of money, and just an excuse to leave the house),. Otherwise, all the time on teen dating sites and such all I see is 'I just want a nice guy who likes to sit around on the couch and cuddle and such'. *Yawn*.

Some girls my age do like to party, and even to go clubbing, but I'm not interested in those things. Small parties are alright, and I have the occasional drink, but not big one's where she'll get smashed, same deal with nightclubs - there's far more 'adventurous' things to do than get drunk at the bar every weekend.

Women at his age, however, are ready to settle down and have kids and such.

I share Aspie1's fear of LTR's. I want an LTR very badly, a committed one and such, but not one that will make my life a boring, uneventful little sedated piece of garbage.

I want a woman who I can continue living life and adventuring with until the day we die. My interests in children right now is minimal, and I have no intentions to 'settle down', not even later in life.

To me, the whole 'settle down, marriage, buy a house, etc.' is the ultimate preventation of continuing an adventurous and explorative lifestyle. Buying a house to me is like the ultimate root/thing that will get you stuck in one place.

I also get bored with living in the same city for even just a few years and actually like the idea of constantly moving rather than setting any sort of roots down.

So you can't just argue my views exist only because I'm young, because other youth at least value stability more than I do, at least from what I've observed.

I wish I could have a job that doesn't get me stuck in one place as well.

I think, obviously, Aspie1 is not ready for an LTR. I don't know if he ever could be; I still stand by what I said, that he has some thinking to do in that area if he wants to avoid self-sabotage. Sheer experience can force a change in thought/perspective - if he were to meet a woman with whom he was hugely sympathetic, who shared his outlook, he may find it's not impossible to be in a committed LTR and enjoy life as he does now - but it might help to ready the ground first. Though if he still wants to go to singles' nights, he'll be looking at an open relationship/polyamoury.

I could apply his description of LTRs to skydiving, or another adrenaline-raising dangerous activity. Frightening, for obvious reasons, and boring because all there is is the adrenaline rush and what gets me going is thinking about stuff, so I'd be left with a 'what, is that it'? Yet I haven't gone to the Sports & Fitness subforum to open a thread detailing how I feel about skydiving, trying to justify my decision to others (and possibly myself). While it's true that skydiving doesn't have the same status in society and culture as LTRs, I don't think it's crazy to suggest there is something in the idea that he's trying to work out/through.

As mentioned before, whenever I've been single and gone looking (at 17, and then at 30), I've found it really hard to find someone who isn't all about Going Out and Having 'Fun' and Doing Things. Maybe it's a UK thing?

For myself, there is nothing I want to do that I cannot do in my LTR that I'd be able to do if single. That is due to the mix of who I am in myself, and the type of person I'm in a relationship with and the type of relationship we have. None of which are in themselves a recommendation, but simply an example that there is more than one model, and nothing to stop you making you own.

By the social markers, I have 'settled down' long ago, yet I remain as unsettled as when I have been single. We still follow our own interests, we still have long periods of time alone (very important to both of us).

You no more need to follow the 'settle down and be serious' model of a relationship anymore than you need to follow the model of a life that gives rise to such a relationship: be young and party all the time, have a few girlfriends and flings, party a bit less and get serious with work, get serious with a girlfriend, live together, buy a house together, marry and have kids and dinner parties and interminable negotiations over interior decor, a mid life crisis and an inappropriate affair, etc. Eesh.

Let's pause for a little Rust Cohle here:



Anyway.

While it is a prevalent model - the prevalent model, really - there are a fair few others out there who'll feel the same as you. Looking around, I see a lot of people who fall into this model and find it wanting, who go on to make changes in their life and relationship for the better. Time happens. Life happens.

What I always wanted - what I yearned for and idealised - was the couple-as-conspiracy, the couple-as-a-world-unto-themselves. Something that wed the 'two types of love' spoken about earlier.

I wanted a settled domesticity as opposed to partying all night and rock and rolling every day, because that sort of thing has never been my bag anyway; I'd have a settled domesticity on my own or with someone else. That settled domesticity need not - did not - lead to shoe shopping or dinner parties or conversations about kitchen tiles, or house prices, or life's many banalities. Thank God!

It is in thinking about things that I feel most alive (I seek experience to have something to think about), and I wanted someone who had a worldview that was close but still distinct, who was perceptive and thoughtful and with whom I could have a conversation that flows as easy as thought. I didn't want socialising or partying or drinking 'fun', as that's not fun to me, but I did want someone I could go to out of the way places with, hop on a train or bus to somewhere we don't know, walk around and observe and people watch and talk. And I wanted someone who'd have my back, as I'd have theirs. And when you've talked yourselves into each others' heads - I mean, that's seduction, no? - and there's not much left you want to say right now, you have sex. Lots of sex, to try and make tangible the mental connection. That's how I am and what I need (and again, they are facts, not recommendations).

And I got that.

The spanner in the works with this ideal was that I underestimated how much time I need to myself. Not time by myself with other people, to go and do social activities (minimal interest in that), but proper time by myself, to just be in my head. Because I'd idealised from a position of having as much time to myself as I cared for. I didn't understand it myself, and nor did Mrs Hopper, for all our oddnesses both still held by the model we see played out time and again. But, a bit of self-honesty and fearless understanding later, adjustments were made and things run much better.

Coming on here, I realise how lucky I was and am. If you can't find a path you like, make your own. There's a good chance that, sooner or later, you'll find someone walking a similar direction with similar intent.

This!

I keep reading about "love" (notice the quotes) in this thread, and I heard it plenty from my grandmother. But if spending time with a girlfriend bores me to tears and/or she doesn't like anything I like---doesn't need to be crazy adventures; it can be something cerebral like ballroom dancing,---that alone will kill love faster than a nuclear bomb, and make me want to break up and never speak to her again. I can't believe people just don't get that!

I also want to add one thing. When I was in my early 20's, It seemed like most women my age were vapid and anti-intellectual. If I made a literary reference in conversation, even a famous book like "1984"---god help me if I mentioned something obscure like "Anthem" by Ayn Rand---they'd look at me like I just exposed myself to a group of kids. But when I do the same thing with early-20's women now, they ask genuine questions about the book, or even say they've heard of it. Either way, I like it! It's like I'm getting the best of both worlds. I do wonder if it's because I'm older (so the mentions of books gets attributed to my age) or because I no longer have a creepy look in my eyes (which makes almost anything I say sound cool).

On the contrary, I can't believe you believe that 'people just don't get that'. 'I'm finding life with my partner boring and it's affecting how I feel about them' is one of the most quotidian complaints a human can make. If you're bored with someone, you're understandably going to start questioning why you're with them. It's a problem that hits any relationship (romantic, platonic, familial) after a while. The decision then is what you do about it.

In the Adam Phillips video I linked to on the previous page, I thought he made an excellent point when he observed that, if someone can satisfy us, they can also frustrate us.

Also, just wondering - why did you, again, point out that something was in quote marks? Why did you put it in quote marks?

That said, quote marks or not, I think it best to forget about love here. I would presume that, if you (or anyone) were in a long-term relationship with someone, you would love them. That being so, take it as a given and look at what about LTR's isn't a given, or that you mistakenly think is a given, or that you would like to be a given.

I think there's some confused thinking and wrong assumptions here, and I'm trying to untangle them, but I don't suppose I'm having any luck. I mean, it can be dealt with very simply:

You: I think long-term relationships are boring, and they scare me because my Nan said you have to give up everything about yourself and do whatever the other person wants.

Respondent: Oh, no. That's not the case at all. God, that would be terrible. I'd hate that. Luckily many if not most relationships aren't like that. It's a matter of finding the right person, if you even have any interest in an LTR.

...and, well, that's that sorted, no? Yet something's not working here. So, what is it?

I don't think people here aren't understanding , just pointing out that isn't how it has to be/not all women would be like that in a relationship. I also get that your fixated on what your grandmother and maybe others have told you...well might need to just throw that out of your head entirely. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where hanging out with the other person bores me to tears and doesn't like any of the things I like...I don't think anyone here will disagree that such a relationship sounds horrendous.

I mean if you feel being in a relationship with one person would be boring and limiting, regardless of who not sure what to say...aside from there are those who like casual sex/hook ups and some people even have open relationships or whatever with multiple people. But if its just fear that all relationships have to have the dynamic of a controlling overly serious rather authoritarian girlfriend and the boyfriend who grudgingly stays by her side....then not sure what to tell you aside from trying to convince you that's not the dynamic that has to develop and doesn't reflect every long term relationship.

Maybe you should go for the girls in their 20's if they seem more intriguing, you're only 32. I am 26 and my boyfriends 31...just thinking its possible sometimes your best matches might not be in your exact age group.

But that's not necessarily a good thing, Sweetleaf.

For me, I prefer older women aged in the 18-25 range and, if I could, would date someone at least up to age 20, and once I turn 18, even higher than that.

Obviously I cannot do this, however. It will change once I'm 18, in that I legally can date the 20-25 range, but most women also seem to socially not prefer younger males anyway.

Without sounding arrogant, I feel one of the issues is that I'm actually 'too mature' for females my age, but that might not be true. I'm probably just too 'different', but to the point that a higher likelihood of people who would accept me as I am and appreciate my good qualities are significantly older than me, rather than the same age.

The people at work find me extremely mature and hardworking despite being quiet, they seem to value my contributions rather than my personality, even if I rarely actually communicate with anyone else much. I'd think if I worked at Mcdonald's or something, high in teenager staff, I'd just come across as too creepy or stoic for everyone.

I get (appropriate) compliments all the time from older men and women but those my age can't give me the time of day.

On Aspie1's side of things, even if he's still 'just 31', he won't be forever, and there comes an age where him dating women in the 20-25, or even the 20-30 range, would be seen as extremely inappropriate, even if it's legal. And an age where, even if it's legal, they would probably see it as a bad thing that a significantly older male is giving them attention.

And, you never know if the process will continue or not.

Perhaps, it's possible even if I get older, it will still always be people far older than me who think I'm a good person while people the same age are never interested as relationships or friends, and the older Aspie1 gets the younger and younger the women he might have to go for who can provide him what he wants in a relationship.

And I wouldn't say I'M not ready for a relationship. With both of my first girlfriends, I did things fine. Good, actually.

I listened well to them, spent a reasonable amount of time with them, treated them well, etc.

and, yes, my second girlfriend was most certainly a very 'fun' gal who liked to go out together and try all kinds of new or different things. Our first three dates were bowling, dinner, her visiting my house, then roller skating rink, and the planned but cancelled fourth date? walking together to look at the Christmas lights with my family.

Hopper: What I think's not working is, perhaps it's wrongly assumed by me and Aspie1 here, but we believe some of the others here are, or, at least were, stating or implying 'if you LOVE them, you LOVE them. So you'll be HAPPY!', and me and Aspie1 just don't believe it's that simple. And, I'm confident our perspectives won't necessarily be changed once we do find relationships. With my first girlfriend as fun as it was to sit around at her house doing absolutely nothing (but sleeping in the same bed and *insert private information here*), I still did try to keep asking her for an actual date, even if I enjoyed just spending time with her from the beginning, I wouldn't have been content with it. Not content with just sitting and talking to her at lunch and with her while she did her homework in the library. It gets old quickly. Not everyone finds that entertainining in their life, some desire the opposite, some desire a mix/half-way between the two personality types. I'm an 'ambivert' who prefers other ambiverts over extroverts and introverts.

But anyway, perhaps Aspie1 and I are just dragging this along a bit when the answer is to simply find someone who shares our ideas of a good relationship - something that's always been hard for me to do, my entire life and apparently Aspie1's as well.

Now, time to see girls who only share my values in a relationship. I'm sure it won't take too long, we only have a 31 year old here who's probably been searching since 17 as well.

I didn't mean to date women in their 20's like forever, but at the age of 32 that's not that extreme of an age difference...especially if he's not really clicking with anyone his same age. I know I was starting to get a little sick of guys in their mid 20's like me or younger hence why I decided to expand my age pool to guys in early 30's.

What if he got a relationship with a women in her 20's and by the time he reaches the age it would be seen as odd to be dating a woman in that age range....that woman would also have aged beyond it. As I say I don't suggest anything like going through multiple girlfriends in their 20's and tossing them out as they reach 30 well into his 80's to maintain a girlfriend in her 20's.

Also sounds like your state has stricter laws concerning age of consent stuff...in my state a 16 year old could legally have sex with a 26 year old. Because a person under 17 but older than 15 can have sex with someone up to 10 years older if its consensual....and under 15 year olds can have sex with someone up to 4 years older if its consensual.

There are late teen/early 20's relationships in fairly large occurrence so a 20's/30's relationship certainly wouldn't turn any heads at least not in Colorado....maybe in an uber conservative bible belt state though.

I'm Australian.

And, hm, after checking the actual laws, the age of consent for my state is simply 16, 18 for sodomy.

Still doesn't mean it's appropriate for me, a 17 year old male, to ever express interest in women 18-20 years old, let aloe 20+ even if I've already graduated high school.

How would YOU, at age 20, have felt with a teenager hitting on you? "Go find someone your own age" I'd expect them to say.

I was chatting to a 19 year old online briefly and she felt the need to ask for my age because she thought I looked younger than 18. My first girlfriend was 19 while I was still 16 and it was commented on a lot by her family, so clearly it's a bit of a taboo thing.

My age is so limiting right now. There's nothing to do in my boring city, and everything is basically 18+. This is a small city that's best to live in when you already have friends to hang out with, not to meet new people.

Anyway, I'd be interested to know when OP did start looking for a woman with similar views of what he wants in a relationship. Hopefully he HASN'T been looking since 17, otherwise, like him, I'm probably screwed.

And, coincidentally, I live in the most conservative Australian state, and possibly the most conservative Aussie city.

I don't find long-term relationships to be boring. Then again, I am a boring as*hole myself so maybe my feelings are in the minority.

I had my first girlfriend (sort of) at age 18. But there's a catch! Since I had absolutely no romantic experience---not even one date---I plunged headfirst into that relationship, hoping to make up for lost time. All while completely ignoring the fact that I didn't find her attractive at all, and was bored silly with her. I felt like I had no other options, after all. My city had tons of places I would have loved to go with her: trendy ethic restaurants, quirky shops, museums, even boat rides on the river. With buses to link them all together. (I didn't have a car.) But no! She only liked hanging out on campus (university) and eating a meal together. Then when we went to a dance, she didn't want to dance close. Either I deserved that for going to a dancing event without even knowing how, or she never liked me to begin with. I stopped calling her after that.

Whatever few girlfriends I found later, they were better than my first one, despite not lasting long. Then as I got older---and got sexual experiences through escorts--- long-term relationships became something to fear, rather than seek out. The final nail in the coffin was seeing all my close friends get into committed relationships. Instead of aspiring to be "happy" like them, I want to make sure to avoid the same thing happening to me.

After falling by the wayside for many years, my fascination with trains returned with a vengeance. They symbolize freedom for me. While for all of the 20th century in America, that symbol was a car. Probably because I associate driving with relationships, since I had to drive all my past girlfriends. Trains, on the other hand, are my main way for getting to escorts' hotels and singles' parties. It's very ironic, since trains are tied to tracks and schedules, while cars are "wherever, whenever".

At the age of 20 I was about as mature as a teenager...and this guy I liked after another guy I was dating broke it off was 18 or 19, can't say I really cared. I also dated a 20 year old when I was 22. But 3 years is really seen as a large age difference where you are? To me that is weird. But either way I am perfectly satisfied being 26 dating someone who's 31, 5 years older at this age is really not a big deal.