Seeing all long-term relationships as fundamentally boring

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Yeah I never really cared about age differences, older or younger, and think the laws are a bit restricting in some places.

If it were up to me, it would be:

Age of consent - 16, and when you’re 16 you can only date someone within 4 years older than your age, so age 20 maximum. At age 17, the max would be 21. And at 18, anyone 16 or older. And once you turn 20, youngest you can date is 16. And once you turn 21, youngest you can date is 17. And once you’re above 21, anyone 18 or older.

Makes much more sense to me, rather than a 17 and 18 year old having consented sex being ‘statutory rape’ by law in some places. It's just one f*cking year...

So, are you actually suggesting Sweetleaf that it's not necessarily inappropriate if I expressed an interest in women aged 18-20?

The only one's I have showed interest in was when we were still in high school towards the older seniors, when it was still appropriate as we were all mixed together, the reason my first girlfriend was 19 - she happened to be the oldest senior, and I the youngest.

I honestly just feel like it's weird, strange and wrong inside so I never do it. I feel like I'm just stuck with girls my own age, and they're the only ones that give me attention anyway.

And I do take back what I said earlier, that I'm 'more mature'. I don't think this at all, but I just don't relate with girls my age, though it's possible it just might be women, and, honestly, people in general as I don't get along with most males either.

And Aspie1, I know exactly what you're talking about. Seems in relationships, the man drives the woman around everywhere. And, interestingly enough, some women may have a problem with a man who 'can't drive' yet she may not even drive herself around.

from my perspective, a "boring" relationship is highly desirable. I've had my fill of "excitement."

Maybe so. But what really surprises me about my friends, is that they don't want to do "mature", allegedly unexciting things anymore, either. Or even sports. Good god, it's not like I'm inviting them to jump out of a plane or tag-team an escort. I pretty much stopped extending all invitations, save for an occasional last-ditch effort. Good thing I'm in lots of social/interest groups, where people sign up in advance, and there's no stigma in coming alone. If you can infer from my invitations below, those are perfectly "mature" activities. Not a trace of crassness in sight. And yet...

* "Do you and [girlfriend's name] want to do a ballroom dance class at [historic venue name]?" "No, I'm at her place tonight."
* "Are you up for a kickbox workout class at [gym name] with me? It's a free trial." "No, I'm helping [girlfriend's name] clean."
* "Hey, my social group is doing this art thing. Seems cool. Bring [girlfriend's name]." "No, we'll just listen to music at home."

That said, my friends did invite me to a Sunday brunch party at one of the girlfriends' houses recently. It was actually kind of nice, even with the dainty food and intelligent conversations. But that was on a Sunday afternoon: in at noon, out at 4:00. It's a BIG difference than doing it on a Friday: the time to cut loose, have fun, catch the 1:30 AM train out.

Last edited by Aspie1 on 24 Feb 2016, 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

^^^all that reminds me that I am old and somewhat infirm.

Yes, Aspie1, it sounds like to me your friends haven't 'become boring', it's more like it sounds like they're being CONTROLLED by their girlfriends.

You said it yourself in the past that the women come across this way - the hollywood woman is a dominant alpha female type, and the others came across as uptight and controlling to you.

Maybe they're just happy to be controlled, who knows.

Anyway, I can see why it might make you develop an aversion to LTR's. I've also seemed to develop one, even if I still want one very badly.

I find, for most people, friendship or relationship, I have to hide most of my true personality, as most people don't accept me or like me for who I am when I truly express myself. I don't pretend to be something I'm not, I don't fake it or anything, I just...hide certain parts of who I am.

A lot of the time, I feel like a social chameleon who just puts on whatever personality and conform to others to appeal to THEM, and never to myself. I compromise too much as when I actually be myself other's are turned off by my personality quickly.

I've accepted that this is just who I am. I'm not being 'fake' or anything like that, fact is, I am an actor, and being someone else, being whatever is necessary to make progress with others, IS being myself.

Nobody really knows the true me inside, as I'm always somebody else depending on who I'm talking to.

But if I were to have a relationship, I'd just prefer to just be myself than a lie. It seems impossible though.

I'm not trying to hypnotize you into anything. Im not trying to talk you into anything either. I personally don't care if you ever get into an LTR or not. I'm just explaining it to you. I've been married for close to 30 years, so I understand relationships. You just don't seem to want to believe anybody who doesn't confirm your ideas about what you think it's like.

You seem to just be fixated in certain things that seem to make you feel good about yourself and keep using them in your posts to back up your ideas. Sex with hookers, people were friendly on a cruise, people treated you normal at parties and you had fun. You don't seem to understand that there is a whole different level of relating to people that you aren't understanding or experiencing, and its really, really great and its what ltr's are built on.

The level that you're at is the one that lots of people are at and go through in their mid teens, (without the hookers for most though) when they discover the opposite sex and start flirting and dating etc. There's nothing wrong with being at the level that you're at, but you really shouldn't disbelieve that there is more than this, and that it's what people experience when they are in relationships. When I say "in relationships" I don't mean getting a gf and dating her for a stretch of time without the emotional attachment and love, because that's like calling yourself a smoker because you bought a pack of cigarettes and just walked around with a lit one in your hand. It's like playing up the fact that you know martial arts because you have signed up for and been to three lessons at one of those for kids after school Tai kwan do places. In other words it may look similar on the surface but its not the same at all.

So continue enjoying yourself and discovering the world of relating to the opposite sex and learning to have fun with people and learn how to feel about and deal with people treating you the same way as everybody else, but also realize that there is a whole lot more to learn and to experience and that it isn't something you can rush or try to force or try to find and make happen. It's all about emotion and without it you just have long term companionship and arrangement, not exactly relationship.

Nobody's trying to persuade you into anything.

Love is a many splendoured and many miseried thing. It can carry us over rough patches and difficulties and help us find strength where otherwise we'd give up, and it can make the slightest disagreement a source of bitter disappointment. There is love as 'really, really, very strongly like', love as commitment through good times and bad, there is love as concern and interest in another's wellbeing, love as desire, love as not feeling particularly loving to one's SO at that particular time, etc. There are many loves, many facets of love, as there are many happinesses.

That being so, what would it even mean to say 'if you love them then you love them and you'll be happy'? Have to say though, I don't see that being thrown around here.

As Adam Phillips said - if someone can satisfy us, because they can satisfy us they can also frustrate us, and the issue is what we do with that frustration, and the ambivalance of our feelings. It seems to me that Aspie1's approach at present is to stick it out with someone as long as they can satisfy him, but the moment the possibility of frustration rears it's head, he's off. He's even guarding against getting into a situation where he could be frustrated.

I think somewhere here, there is a worry about perspectives changing. That one will change. Change can feel like a betrayal of one's self. Imagining the possibility of future change can make one feel disloyal to one's present self. It can seem to mean that how one is now, which is a way one is invested in as a worthy identity, is in need of change.

I think change is inevitable - certainly, Aspie1 has been quite clear that he has changed since how he was a decade ago. The issue is how we manage that change, how aware we are of it.




I'm a strong introvert, and quite the homebody, yet going out and about and far afield with Mrs Hopper has always been one of my greatest pleasures, because of her company, her perspective. I think both of us are now take-it-or-leave-it with Doing Things, but at the beginning she was more social and outgoing than I was (though to be fair, that isn't saying much!).

One thing I wil say about sharing interests - people can like the same thing for different reasons. Depending on the interest, this need not be a problem, but with some things there can be an assuption of a match of outlook when actually that isn't the case. The concern isn't so much a divergence of outlook, but the sort of disappointment that might come at such a revelation.



All anyone looking for a relationship of whatever length wants is someone who shares their idea. At that abstract level, we're all in the same boat. If one does not find a fit with the 'norm' model, there will be difficulties, but it's not impossible.

I think Aspie1 is thinking himself into a corner, because as things are he clearly has no interest (or ability) in giving a long term relationship a try anyway. I've tried to fathom quite why this is so, but he's stopped talking to me now. His repeated insistence on what all LTRs are like does come off a bit 'teaching your grandmother to suck eggs by telling her to throw them across the room'.



I went searching when I was 17. Placed and responded to ads in the back of a music magazine, and did phone dating. Most everyone was about going out and socialising and getting drunk. Was found by Mrs Hopper when I was 18. Separated for a while around when I was about 30, and I went searching again. Thousands of Plenty of Fish and OKCupid profiles of women Going Out and Doing Things and Having Fun (that is, drinking and partying). I did find/was found by a few people, and had a 1 year relationship with one of them.

There are certain social norms and expectations, and if one doesn't find a fit with them, it can be tough and lonesome. By your age I'd tried to put myself with a particular subculture that was based around certain bands and related art and films and books, but even there I felt on the periphary because there was a hedonism to the culture that didn't do anything for me.

One of the reasons Mrs Hopper took a liking to was me because I could read and write. Not because I did, but because I could - that I was actually literate. Such was the state of her local peer group. All I can say is to both look and make sure you can be found if there's someone looking for you (there doubtless is).

Well, maybe so. So far, I haven't seen anything remotely positive about being in a relationship. Including after having tried one myself, or whatever's similar to it on the surface. Just compare attending a party organized by trained hosts or beating the crap out of an Everlast punching bag with a like-minded group, to "listing to music at home". Or compare spacing out while rattling along on train tracks, to being harped at while try to find that goddamn offramp. (Either party can do the harping.)

The main reason your words are completely failing to reach me is that you keep tooting the "emotions" horn, not unlike what my grandmother did (which only deterred me from LTR's). And the hypnosis comment was me being facetious. Remember: you're dealing with an aspie here , let alone someone who witnessed the dark side of relationships. So "emotions" or "love" means nothing to me. I want to see numbers. I want to see descriptions of events. I want to see yes/no answers. If those are impossible to give, then we've reached an impasse, and will have to agree to disagree.


I didn't meant to ignore you. As I already said to OliveOilMom, I just have no compelling reason to try a LTR. I have escorts for sex. I have female friends for platonic fun and socialization. I have singles' events to get my flirting fix. I don't have to drive anyone but myself, and if I'm sober. And cruises are so much fun when you're single, whether you meet flings or friends. So what's left? Emotions? Sorry, not convinced. I respect her and you for giving a good-faith effort, but that's like convincing me to believe in the benefits of a "1984"-type government. (And saying "Ingsoc is doubleplusgood, because you love Big Brother" just isn't enough.) So like with OliveOilMom, let's just agree to disagree to keep this thread from turning into a circus.

Yes, but Aspie1, you are the one that made sweeping, generalized claims about LTRs making all of us in one look boring. Those of us who are successfully in LTRs are only making a point that your view is not *necessarily* so. Plus, you asked if anyone saw things the same way. You are (reasonably) getting different kinds of responses on this thread. Some agree with you, some don't. Some are discussing nuances. No one is turning anything into a circus.

I would always pick listen to music at home, whether I was in a relationship or single. That's because it's a matter of character and personal preference, and has nothing to do with being in a relationship. I've also spent many a happy train journey in Mrs Hopper's company, her head on my shoulder, each gazing out the window and soothed by the rhythm. Blissful, really. Such moments for us were the focus of a nexus of many other moments that could only have come about through a long-term relationship. And within that relationship, I have also had many happy train and bus journeys on my own.

I already agree-to-disagree. I mean, it's not even disagreement. My preferring long-term relationships, and how I want to live, in no way is an argument against how you feel about them, and how you want to live. And vice versa. I'm not trying to sell you on long-term relationships - frankly, as things stand you are obviously not ready for one. I'm just trying to point out that being in a long-term relationship need not be boring for you.

No amount of exhortation from you could convince me I'd be happier living how you do. Because it's just not how I am. And ditto, no doubt. You might be able to talk to me, listen to what I say, and then point out any misgivings I had about being single. But that's not the same as me taking up your lifestyle. Anyone else's life is not a guide or a recommendation, unless you look at it and think, 'yeah, that could work for me'. I've given a bit of detail about my life in an effort to illustrate certain points, not to say 'be like me! It's great!'.

I don't mention the train journeys (both alone and in company) to suggest that, contrary to what you say, every long-term relationship comes guaranteed with such. Because they don't. But I mention them to point out that there is absolutely nothing in being in a long-term relationship that means you can no longer go on trains, be it on your own or in company. If we abstract from that particular, the only thing that defines a long-term relationship is that it's a relationship which you are in for the long-term. Everything else is up in the air. We get to decide who to be in a long-term relationship with, and we get a say in how that relationship works. I know you're hung up on what your grandmother said (I've gone into possible misunderstandings in earlier posts) but, no offense to her, no matter what she actually said and meant, she's not the grand authority on these things.

I think having all your friends pretty suddenly settle down as you say they have must be a bit of a shock.

No given life model works for everyone. Further, it's rare a life model works for anyone - there will always be external and internal conflict, and moments of personal crisis where an individual has to decide what they want to do, when faced with incommensurable options.

OliveOilMom is right in that there is a depth of bonding and contentment in a serious, working long-term relationship that cannot be understood without being experienced. I don't dismiss or belittle the happiness you felt doing that spontaneous dance on the cruise, or flirting at the singles' night, just because it's an emotion or because I've never done such a thing and can't see the appeal. I believe you completely they were enjoyable experiences worth having. I would ask the same courtesy.

Ultimately, this isn't about what anyone but you thinks of long-term relationships. Us respondents can point out where your assumptions are wrong, or give examples and advice to try and open up your worldview a little, but it's only you who can live your life.

I've also been trying to find out why you think what you do. Because, as I keep saying, this seems to be something that is on your mind, and I've been trying to help with that, to work out why LTRs give you the heebie-jeebies. Because I don't think you can approach the issue with a clear head unless you get that sorted. For the time being that need not be an issue, and a long-term relationship need not be anything to interest you. But life happens, and people change, and there may come a point where it does. And if you still feel the same, that could really screw you over.

a boring relationship sure would be nice

It may well be true for you, but where you stray into projection is stating 'all'.

After 30 years I haven't found it boring in the least. To me being single/alone was boring.

Your feelings áre normal, its the modern world of forced relationships that isnt. People get into relationships because they feel that they arent whole without one, instead of just leading a natural life untill you come across someone that you start to like, then love then prefer to be around. And if that doesnt happen theres no loss. There has been hundreds of thousands of people that never had a spouse. And if you like me believe that our concious existence is not limited to our physical considering the vastness and capricious nature of life, youll have plenty of 'lifes left to divide your freedom with the wants of another.

on this world there are probably millions upon millions that never had a GF or spouse. we are nothing special in that respect.

Again, I'm not trying to convince you to get in one. I don't care if you do or you don't. I'm also an aspie. And I've also experienced the dark side. I was married for close to two years before I married my husband now. He beat the s**t out of me every day, cheated on me constantly with every girl I knew and every girl he met, stole from me, lied to me, put me down etc. I took it until I realized I was bigger than him and beat the s**t out of him and left for good. That was after trying getting back with him. I left him the first time thinking he would just go. He wouldn't. I had money and a car and he didn't and he kept coming back. My grandfather who we lived with while I was growing up was am abusive drunk to my grandmother and my mother and when I got older he tried hitting s**t on me too and i didn't put up with it. He's the first person to ever shoot at me too. So I've seen and experienced some dark s**t. But I also know that it's not supposed to be like that and doesn't have to be if you don't get involved with an as*hole. I did the first time and dated a few but mainly dated guys who weren't.

So there is love and its not like that. Most of the time it's not, in fact. But the bad kind stands out more so its more noticeable. You probably paid more attention to my posts when I was having trouble with my marriage than you did when I wasn't. It's been about 85% good and 15% bad. Not hitting, he can't fight even though he looks like he can and usually intimidated whatever guy is trying to start a fight with him instead of actually having to throw a punch, but we have had other kinds of problems and everybody goes through some problems of some kind. It's not all roses and can't be because people get in moods and go through phases.

So you saw and see things you don't like or saw some serious bad s**t in life or on TV. It does happen but that's not how it really is. And again I'm NOT trying to talk you into trying it. I'm just trying to make you see that you don't know what it's actually about because without FEELINGS it's nothing. People have relationships because of feelings. Aspies have feelings too. Aspies are just as capable of feelings love as anyone else. It's psychopaths who can't feel love. They are the ones without emotions, not aspies. You can be both an aspie and a psychopath, yes and if you can't experience love or remorse or guilt or compassion or anything like that, then I'd suggest seeing a psychiatrist about it because that is not aspergers.

Ltrs are based on feelings and unless you fall in love with a girl you aren't going to want what people want when they go into a LTR.

Let me give you an example of not understanding or really believing in feelings you haven't experienced. When I was a kid, up until I was about younger i loved my mother more than anybody and couldn't imagine living anyone more than her. I couldnt imagine putting anyone ahead of her in my heart. Until I met my now husband and when I fell in love with him. I lived him more. Up until then if somebody had been there with a gun and asked who should they shoot me or her I would have said shoot me. When I fell in love with him if somebody had said who is going to get shot, him or her I would have said shoot her, I loved him that much. Or if it was me and him I would have said shoot me. Now the whole time I was pregnant I had no idea what this overwhelming parent love was supposed to be. I was told by people that I would love my baby more thany husband but I didn't believe it. I didn't believe that there was a love that was just so overwhelming that there was no way to describe it. Until the moment my first baby was born and they showed him to me. It hite me like a freight train. I don't cry but I boo hooed. It was so strong and in that moment I understood it. I lived that baby more than anything and if need be to save his life I would shoot my husband, mother, and myself. In other words he was first to me. All four of my kids are that way to me. It's a love like no other and you can't describe it unless you have felt it. It's hard to believe in until you feel it.

Just like until you meet and fall in Love with somebody you don't get how you would enjoy just kicking back bored with them or wanting them forever.

Now, I'm not trying to get you to fall in love cause that's not possible to talk somebody into doing, and like I said it doesn't matter to me what you do. I have no dog in this fight. What I am saying though, is that those people you see in ltrs feel that love, or close to it. Sometimes it's not that deep because they aren't the right one but people fall in love and that is why they get in these. Their desires change too. That's why people tend to want to just be alone with each other instead of wanting to go out with friends. And sometimes people do things they don't want to do, for the other person. They don't enjoy doing the thing but they desire the other person to be happy so they do it. They get satisfaction out of that because it makes the other one happy.

All I'm wanting you to do is realize that you don't know about love and don't understand what it is or how it works. That's all. I am not wanting you to desire a ltr or to desire to fall in love. I'm just wanting you to understand that the way you see others relationships is not the way it is to them go be in it. I'm talking about good relationships here, not bad ones. Everybody gets in a bad one from time to time if they date around first, and most people date first. Not everyone is lucky like my daughter and her fiance and find the right one first time. That's rare. But what I want you to understand is that people in relationships are experiencing something you haven't and don't yet understand. That's why it looks so bad to you. When you are in love and with the person you love and who loves you, then the most boring night at he together washing the dog or listening to her talk about her mother, her friends and her period, or sitting there with him while he watches three freaking football games and says nothing except to yell at the players on TV, is better to you than the most fun filled and exciting evening out with your friends. Love makes that happen, not logic and not anything you have right now.

I honestly do think that if you can't feel live or anything like that then it would be good to talk to a psychiatrist and find out if you are a psychopath who can't experience feelings like this or if maybe you have an imbalance that is muffling your feelings or something. And by love I'm not talking self interest love like " I would feel bad or be lonely or be bored if something happened to this person. So therefore I love them" I'm talking about " I would gladly take a bullet for this person. So she or he could live, even if they didn't think much about me afterwards, as long as they could live and be happy". Not doormat love either with somebody like my ex husband but real love.

So it's not about getting you in a relationship here to me. It's about getting you to understand that they are based on feelings that you can't comprehend yet and realizing that your judgment of how others feel in relationships is more than likely wrong. That's all its about to me. Getting you to see that you don't yet know what it's about at all. And when you do realize that and admit it to yourself you will actually be a lot more relaxed and a lot less paranoid and suspicious of everybody.

In other words I want you to realize that you don't get it or see anything positive about it because you HAVEN'T experienced the emotions involved and to realize that they exist.

You said emotions and feelings mean nothing to you. Do you not feel live for family members or your pets? Do you not feel like for your friends? Do you not feel compassion for people you know who are sick or hurt or even strangers who are helpless and hurting who strike a chord with you? Do you FEEL anything for other people at all, or only in how they relate to you?

I'm asking this as a serious question, because not feeling emotions isn't an aspie thing. Not being able to properly express them is very much an aspie thing. But not feeling them at all for others is a major concern. I'm not saying not feeling them about everybody. I could give a rat's ass about most people feelingswise but I do have feelings for quite a few people. I love my immediate family, my close friends, and my let's. I feel like for a lot of people and I feel compassion for the people I live and like when its needed. Even aspies who seem like Vulcans feel these things, they just don't show them well and they may not feel things for a lot of people but they do for a few at least. Do you feel anything FOR anyone?