"Chicks dig confidence."

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Well, I think confidence has a place there too because I need confidence that a girl is good for me before I want to talk to her.

Yes, and I think that is the type of confidence that people should strive for. I've also noticed that as I've learnt how I work, and decided to be natural instead of fake, my confidence has increased, and I think girls actually notice that, so it does work to be as natural as possible.

Rdos I know a few people like that. They are all single single because no one ever makes a move. They are tied to an ideology of, "you can't date someone you don't know"

I'm up for going on a one on one date so I can chat to the guy and get to know him. Even if we've only recently met. A date isn't commitment to me. It's just a date. Of course I'd never move in with someone I've just met. It does take time to get to know a person.

This my friends is why I don't make the first move. I know too many people in the: "just observe for a while in a group setting" mindset that I feel like I am overstepping the mark if I'm the one who makes the move.

That's why I'm so angry with rdos. I'm fighting this attitude in real life with people I know. Except my best friend who is always telling me to seize the moment. She's always positive.

I'd make it "you can't have a relationship with somebody you don't know". Dating has no place in the "ideology".



Sure, if that works for you.



You probably are.



Why fight it? It's far better to learn how it operates and follow the (innate) rules of it. The most common mistake these people are doing is that they mix it up with NT-thinking, and thus break the rules. It works perfectly well if you are being yourself instead of trying to fake being NT.

Completely agree.

And, it's the best kind of confidence. If anything, I've known plenty of people who find this to be the most attractive form of confidence - simply being happy with who you are.

That's what a healthy self-esteem is - knowing your strengths, knowing your weaknesses, always working to self-improve as a person, but knowing you are imperfect, will always be, and actually being kind of happy being this way.

If a nerdy, awkward male with glasses and odd clothes still is confident and has a good self-esteem, why can't he go for others who feel the same, whether they're extremely fashionable and wear lots of makeup (this paragraph is for CryptoNerd, as I think i know what inspired him to make this thread) or have the geeky-look just as much as he does?

But unfortunately it may be more difficult to recognize in others than 'smooth-talker' type confidence.

So we may walk a little odd and funny sometimes or with our hands in my pockets, so in a social situation we fold our arms to feel more comfortable with ourselves. We don't care what you think, at all, and am happy with who we are, and finally we believe in ourself, and that's the definition of confidence.

The lyrics of this song, while simply an upbeat pop rock song, describes perfectly what I'm talking about (paraphrased):

"I'm okay, I'm okay,
Kinda being awkward socially
With the fact that the girls
Don't lose their s**t when they look at me

It's okay, it's okay,
That I'm not that good at anything
And I don't hit the notes perfectly
When I try to sing

Oh-oh I know I am not alone
So turn the music up and let go

Here's to the rest of us
To all the ones that never felt they were good enough
I wanna hear it for the dazed and confused
The freaks and the losers
Let's put 'em up
Here's to the rest of us
The rest of us

I'm okay, I'm okay
I don't need to be a billionaire
(So freaking bad!)
And my trust fund hopes are looking sad

I confess, I'm a mess
I'm perfectly dysfunctional
But I don't give a damn
If you feel the same
Let me hear you sing

We don't need to apologize for anything
Oh-oh, oh-oh
We're who we are
I just wanna hear you sing

The lost, the geeks, the rejects, the losers
The wrong, the freaks, the hopeless, the future"

^THAT's what I consider 'true' confidence

Music video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHFpVniBcJM

"I would definite an arrogant person as someone who always expects other people to agree with them. They think their idea is the best and they treat you like a crazy person or get angry if you don't agree."

I agree. I was simply stating my definition of arrogance in the context of confidence/self-esteem.

To me arrogance is believing you're the best and absolutely perfect and flawless and can't make a mistake, confidence is believing you are good, great, have plenty of reasons to be considered a reasonably interesting, alright guy, but you're not superior to others and you have flaws and imperfections. Also, yeah, a confidence person strongly believes in what they say, but admits there are other viewpoints and their own opinion might have biases or flaws in them, an arrogant person simply believes they are right and that's it.

But I feel like the ideology isn't working. My friends are late 20s - early 40s and still single. People are seeing each other on a regular basis as acquaintances, but never finding anything deeper out. I find groups hard to interact with and I'm better one on one. In a group I always feel on the peripheral and left out. The quiet boring person. One in one I'm actually OK at conversation.

Well thank you for acknowledging I'm overstepping the mark with such like people. My best friend doesn't understand.

I'd like to hug you, but I'm sure I'd be overstepping something.

Hugs (and physical contact in general) are for relationships only, so you are definitely overstepping it.

If they think they needs to be friends first, then it will not work. At least in my opinion, it must start with a crush, and it never starts with being friends.

Also, since it cannot be played-out the natural way for several reasons, people need to know how it operates and help the process. For one, they need to be clear and explicit about interest even if they don't want to talk about it. Because just like you say, if both parties are not sure there is interest, then there is no game either. Being clear about interest is mostly a thing for females I think because females tend to be brought up to hide that. At a later state, people need to "show-off", because if they are passive then there is nothing to observe, and so things won't advance because of that. That's an issue for both genders. The show-off part can be done online with good results. It then takes the form of monologues, which also is an ND trait.

Yes. It's interesting to note how spiderpig (and he is not alone) talked about his insecurities with even looking at women. The thing is that if you are insecure in your eye contact, then girls will find you creepy if you don't act normal, but if you act confident then you will never get any negative reactions even when you look at girls hugely out of your league. So you in fact know that you are acting confidently if you get no negative reactions when you look at girls that are very hot and out of your league. It doesn't have that much to do with how you look yourself but is mostly an issue of confidence. You can improve your confidence by acting natural, stop analysing what you are doing wrong, and just accept that your natural way is ok.

Just had an experience with this. I sat opposite to two girls in their teens, both pretty hot. I made eye contact with one of them (the one facing me), and she reciprocated a few times. After a while her friend turned around and gave me a quick look. If I've done this in an insecure way they would have whispered, giggled and thought of me as a possible child-predator, but they apparently enjoyed it as a harmless game instead.

I think people generally notice when someone is being fake, it might make them feel uneasy but they might not know what the person is masking and associate the falseness with what past experiences have taught them.

If there are a limited amount of genuinely suitable partners that a person will encounter across a lifetime, I consider it a mistake to blunder potential opportunities with falseness or arrogance/insecurity. Those extremes can be altered through a commitment to long term personal growth.

I suppose the smooth talkers will pass for a while as genuinely confident, and some people will be better at recognising them than others, but from what I understand over time their actions and words will not sync up.

Chicks dig a hole......nope it's not black hole that's too much....

There's certainly something akin to a wormhole within them---they can send you to another universe for as long as they keep squeezing you.

How do women see that kind of confidence though?

Being comfortable with who you are doesn't translate into confidence with women which is the confidence I often see women saying they find attractive

I use to be comfortable with who I was

Ignore rds and do as your friend says. He was just lucky to find someone. If everyone does as he suggest then most people never end up in a relationship.
Dating isn't a relationship. Dating is to get to know each other well enough to be in a relationship.

Yeah because friends and family never Hug or touch

You're so irritating