Doesn't Anybody F**k Any More? — Reddit edition
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,882
Location: Right over your left shoulder
That's ultimately part of what I mean when I said the general consensus would be that it's not a particularly big deal. Objectively speaking, it might be, but you'd be hard-pressed to get widespread agreement within that society that it's a big deal because no one has had the insight that hey, I'm messed up and so are all of the rest of us and even if they do, they're unlikely to find widespread agreement.
_________________
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
GOP Predators
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,882
Location: Right over your left shoulder
Ask Emmett Till how that could have gone back in the day.
1955 is a ways back.
My previous posts was a comparison of today versus say, 1995-2010. That is what I had in mind.
But I think it goes without saying that black people were treated terribly historically and still are to some extent.
It's an extreme example, but there's always been unspoken norms about who can speak to who and under what circumstances.
_________________
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
GOP Predators
Sorry dude, i don't mean to pick on you, i know you're not the only one who thinks this but...
I just think it's BS and I think men are talking themselves into this reality.
And i think the more they don't talk to women because they're scared of some imagined offence they might cause or being accused of harassment and the more they blame women for their chickenshit behaviour the more they make it worse for themselves.
_________________
Error establishing a database connection...
A lot of men nowadays are frightened of the implications of pursuing women. Several decades ago, it was normal for men to pursue women, even women who weren't initially interested in them in order to court women or 'win' women over.
Well you might not be surprised to learn that i don't think he's right.
I think it's always been scary to make yourself vulnerable in front of a woman by making your feelings for her known.
What may have changed is the way men are expected to deal with rejection. In the past it was quite acceptable to react with anger - a reaction many men are most comfortable with. You could lash out with a nasty slur, for example. That might make your mates laugh and you'd save a bit of face. Less acceptable but still not uncommon you could seek to dominate the woman physically, as a punishment for rejecting you. There's a whole range of ways you could do that ranging from simply not allowing her to get away from you right up to...well, as bad as you can imagine.
An anger response to rejection is what has become unacceptable, in my opinion, and i think a lot of guys don't know what to do with that and are pre-emptively blaming women for putting up road blocks to their advances rather than risk their egos.
But I'm not someone who claims to be a professor on the Internet so what do i know?
Some interesting points there. Perhaps it not being socially acceptable for a man to display anger in response to sexual rejection is an improvement over what used to be. Well, not perhaps - it is an improvement.
But I was mostly referring to a kind of anxiety and a lack of nuance in these situations in the current day.
Sorry dude, i don't mean to pick on you, i know you're not the only one who thinks this but...
I just think it's BS and I think men are talking themselves into this reality.
And i think the more they don't talk to women because they're scared of some imagined offence they might cause or being accused of harassment and the more they blame women for their chickenshit behaviour the more they make it worse for themselves.
It certainly seems to be, in part, a myth perpetuated by folks online - often folks who do harass women going by their own stories.
_________________
Exit, pursued by a bear. – stage direction from Shakespeare’s The Winter’s Tale
Sorry dude, i don't mean to pick on you, i know you're not the only one who thinks this but...
I just think it's BS and I think men are talking themselves into this reality.
And i think the more they don't talk to women because they're scared of some imagined offence they might cause or being accused of harassment and the more they blame women for their chickenshit behaviour the more they make it worse for themselves.
I think there is genuine reason to believe that at least in part, this is a reality we live in. Even if not everybody has these attitudes, I think more do than they used to, as someone has lived through different eras at the grand old age of 35.
Last edited by blitzkrieg on 31 Mar 2024, 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't mean to pull it back, but even going to a much smaller scale. One of our kid's friends (girl), talked to a another boy at their high school recently. Was it flirting? Maybe. But it was really down to the fact that someone else was interested in this other boy. She didn't realize this, but still was almost immediately ostracized from their group. Started experiencing verbal abuse and threats.
It feels, on a smaller scale, it's not how society as a whole operates, but how your own social circle, and smaller community does. I'm sorry if this seems nitpicky, but I think we can agree, when we look at our large communities, we have rather broad ideas of acceptable and unacceptable behaviors, but ultimately, we have to live and deal with what our smaller communities where things get more granular. What's fine here, may be a no-no there. I'm in a fairly diverse city, so I feel like I do simultaneously need to let my values be known while respecting others' values, even if they are in disagreement with my own (at least if they are values I don't find abhorrent).
On a macro (?) sense, I totally get you. But in a micro (?) sense, we have to act to get along with one another where we live , it's a different story.
A final note.... I'm not sure if im agreeing to the tee, what you are saying, but writing all this out... . I think I do understand the point better. Not that you did it poorly, it feels like a complex subject, it interests me, and feels like the discussion floats between sort of things we find universal (which is probably a small number of things, and without much elaboration), and then the things we have to shoulder by being part of the smaller communities we are a part of (much more specific, and probably derive much more from customs and habits).
_________________
“There's only one rule that I know of, babies - God damn it, you've got to be kind.”― Kurt Vonnegut
Sorry dude, i don't mean to pick on you, i know you're not the only one who thinks this but...
I just think it's BS and I think men are talking themselves into this reality.
And i think the more they don't talk to women because they're scared of some imagined offence they might cause or being accused of harassment and the more they blame women for their chickenshit behaviour the more they make it worse for themselves.
It certainly seems to be, in part, a myth perpetuated by folks online - often folks who do harass women going by their own stories.
What stories are these? Do tell.
Stories involving people who follow women around, stare at them, make sexual innuendos/creepy remarks, then who get upset/offended when women say no to whatever, get themselves kicked out of the bar, club, or get a terse response from the female(s) in question. The stories pop up a lot on various social media platforms. Then people whine about the low tolerance we have for harassment when harassment happens to many on a regular basis. Catcalling alone…. JFC.
_________________
Exit, pursued by a bear. – stage direction from Shakespeare’s The Winter’s Tale
Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 31 Mar 2024, 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That's the thing though, a lot of what is not harassment is treated as such in the current day versus a few decades ago.
The mere act of opening up dialogue with a stranger of the opposite sex can be perceived as harassment in the current day.
Yeah people treat you like a creepy weirdo if you just smile at them these days.
Unfortunately, I have witnessed evidence of this trend, also.
Last edited by blitzkrieg on 31 Mar 2024, 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm sure you're right but i think it's also, and maybe more so, perpetuated by men online who are just scared, as men always have been, of being vulnerable around women. Its so much easier to give yourself the excuse of being wary about being accused of harassment than it is to face your fears and talk to women.
The difference is that the Internet gives men a space to voice this crap and tell each other they're right and they don't have to do anything, they can just wallow in the righteous victimhood of being a man.
I think it's deeply unhealthy.
_________________
Error establishing a database connection...
^ It's not just things that men experience themselves, but also when they see it happen to other people.
In my experience, marginalized and/or disabled people are more likely to be labelled as creeps by women.
I'll give you an example of a real life scenario where some poor guy was unjustly called a creep (note, this is person is not me).
He simply 'liked' perhaps a few too many photos of someone on social media and there was a social storm of him being labelled a creep and people joking about him masturbating over the photos he liked.
He has/had learning disabilities so I'm sure it got to him....
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,882
Location: Right over your left shoulder
You're not in/near London, are you?
_________________
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
GOP Predators
That's the thing though, a lot of what is not harassment is treated as such in the current day versus a few decades ago.
The mere act of opening up dialogue with a stranger of the opposite sex can be perceived as harassment in the current day.
Yeah people treat you like a creepy weirdo if you just smile at them these days.
Unfortunately, I have witnessed evidence of this trend, also.
Me too first hand. I think men get a bad rap sometimes. The scariest people I've encountered in pubs have been women.
_________________
We have existence
Similar Topics | |
---|---|
My mom doesn't get it! |
04 Apr 2024, 5:20 am |
Socializing - What works and doesn't |
25 Apr 2024, 6:35 pm |
People working out inspire me but doesn't get me into a gym |
08 Mar 2024, 5:13 pm |
Why Doesn't Light Take On The Velocity Of Its Source? |
18 Mar 2024, 8:40 pm |