I still don't entirely ''get'' what empathy is

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I still don't entirely ''get'' what empathy is. Does it mean just being aware of one's social actions? But even with that, it can sometimes seem quite hard to imagine everybody being 100 percent certain they know what they are doing socially. Surely not every intention is geared around how they want one to feel. Like when people stare at me in public. Yes, some may stare to deliberately intimidate. But others might just give an obvious gaze because it may just be natural in most people to give eye contact to other people (whether they know you or not), which just some people like me with social anxiety and paranoia might just interpret it as judging.


So I've come up with 3 theories, and I want to see which one means having empathy involved, just so I can make sure that I get it or if I don't. Read these 3 theories carefully:-

1. An adult puts a child into a bath full of extremely hot water, and didn't feel the water first to make sure it was at a comfortable temperature. The child yells because it is too hot, and the adult worries then takes the child straight out and apologizes for the mistake, and cools the water down a little and puts the child back in, without meaning to burn the child. The child is now happy, and the adult is glad about that, and safely gives the child a wash.

2. An adult puts a child into a bath full of extremely hot water, but is aware that the water is dangerously hot but deliberately puts the child into the water anyway. The child yells, just as the adult expected, but the adult can't be bothered to sort the water out to make the child feel more comfortable, because the adult is being mean, and so is just intentionally burning the child.

3. An adult puts a child into a bath of extremely hot water, having checked the water beforehand to see if it is comfortable enough to put the child in. The water feels hot, but feels nice on the adult's hand when she tested it, but the water feels differently to the child because the child is actually in it and it is hotter when actually sitting in it than it feels with just dipping your hand into it. The child yells, but the adult gets confused and thinks ''well it wasn't painfully hot when I dipped my hand in there.....maybe the child is screaming about something else'', and carries on washing the child, unintentionally burning the child but seems unaware why the child is screaming even though it is obvious.

I'm not sure that I fully understand it either, but I don't really see empathy in any of those. I think its more like:

The adult didn't realize they forgot to turn the cold water on at all, and put the child in. when the child screamed, the adult's hand also hit the hot water, they realized what they child is screaming about. Having experienced the pain, they understand what is hurting the child and how bad. They immediately pull the child out, soothe/comfort him/her and run some cold water. The adult feels bad because they know how the child feels and probably gives the child a cookie when they get out.

I'm no expert, so that may be wrong but that is my take on empathy.

I think empathy means being able to place yourself in someone elses shoes and see things from their point of view which is hard for some AS people to do. An example of someone who would b empathetic would be a nurse.I hope this helps

I'm not entirely sure what empathy means either .... all the different definitions out there are very confusing.

The only one I know for certain had empathy in it is the first one.

^ It's supposed to be this.

The explanation that makes the most sense to me is (I think it came from Simon Baron-Cohen is:

-A person passes a homeless man on a cold night and feels bad for the man, gives him $10, and appreciates that she has a warm bed to go home to. This is not empathy, this is sympathy.

-A person passes a homeless man on a cold night and feels bad for the man, feels smug, and appreciates that she has a warm bed to go home to. She is a bad person, but this is also a form of sympathy.

-A person passes a homeless man on a cold night and imagines he must be cold and hungry, but he chose this for himself because he's a bad person. She goes home to her warm bed. She is a bad person, but this is empathy.

-A person passes a homeless man on a cold night and feels bad for the man, who she can tell is cold and lonely and wants a hot meal and a friend, just by the way he looks at her. She gives him $10. She goes home to her warm bed. This is empathy.

-A person passes a homeless man on a cold night and feels nothing. She barely notices him. She goes home to her warm bed. She doesn't remember that she saw him. She probably has a personality disorder. She has no sympathy or empathy.

A lot of neurotypical people THINK they have empathy when in fact they have sympathy, and I believe more people on the spectrum have empathy than people think. I also think it doesn't much matter which one you use because they have pretty much the same effect.

Last edited by VAGraduateStudent on 03 May 2013, 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well that's funny because the last one the above poster mentioned is what I see in a lot of NTs, where as I'm always feeling bad for other people all the time. I've been asked to come into work on my day off next week, and I really don't want to because I don't like my routine changed and also I don't want to be there an extra day. But I feel so guilty for approaching someone and saying I can't then thinking of an excuse, because we're all part of a team and I would like to help and I feel sorry for everyone at my work if I don't come in.

I've just been jerked around by a man. He was meant to see me today, but never bothered to turn up. Yes, there might be genuine reasons why and I understand that, but he hasn't even phoned or anything to tell me. He's also got my email address and my facebook, there was ample ways to just quickly contact me to tell me he can't make it, and it doesn't take 5 seconds to do it, but nothing for a few days and I am feeling very hurt and rejected. Then I thought of what he was doing today, and I think ''how can he not feel guilty? Doesn't he know that this will make me feel really upset?'' And my mum (who is NT) said, ''that's what people do, not everyone but it's not unusual to experience this to people, so you'd better learn this.''

So I still don't ''get'' empathy.

i actualy dont get what empathy is either. i doesnt mean i cant feel it. its just always explained in so many diffrent ways here, and people are always getting it confused with sympathy. then people look upon empathy as kind and caring, which then makes people on the spectrum feel like they are coldhearted bad people, from the way everywhere you read states that nts have this emotional empathetic connect for each other and autistics lack all this. you sometimes think, whats that supposed to mean?

then it makes us feel bitter when we are bullied, especialy when we are made to think that empathy does mean kind and caring. i am being bullied at work, and all the ones that dont like me only dont like me because they dont understand me. they cant even try to put themselves in my shoes, its not even natural for them. mind you, they dont try to put themselves in anyones shoes really. only when they want to and when they can be bothered. and not all horrible people have personality disorders. some are just jerks. in fact iv met more jerks in my life than nicer people, and i think an autistic may walk past a homeless person and feel just the same way as VAGraduateStudent stated. i know i have before.

It might help to realize that AS people don't have a problem with empathy. I'll use an example that you'll be more familiar with:
A person walks into a crowded and noisy restaurant. The noise is overwhelming and they leave feeling really anxious.

Can you visualize this event? Do you understand the anxiety? Can you identify a similar event in your own life?

If you answer yes to those you are demonstrating empathy.

When an NT reads these questions and doesn't understand, they fail to show empathy. Empathy is not a natural personality trait. It is a learned and trained response. AS and NT can both train to be more empathetic. The problem with AS is the communication, not the empathy. If you tell me you need a hug I will understand and be empathetic. If you rely on your facial expression to communicate you need a hug, I will not receive the message and I will not appear to have empathy. But the problem isn't the empathy it's the communication.

If I were a nurse and saw a sad person who had nobody to visit them, I would wonder how I would feel if I were in that situation and then try to figure out what would make me feel better. This is where it gets confusing because many people might not want the same things I would so it would be a hit or miss.

Where I live, homeless people are not a good example to use because many panhandlers/beggars here are liars. They often make more money than I do. I remember living in Spanish Harlem, not having much money, then seeing a guy limping like an invalid, then exit the subway at my stop, run to a liquor store to exchange wads of case (he had rolls of hundreds and twenties) with the cashier, and I was like WTF??! !!

I don't actually understand how the first and the fourth example are different. Can you explain? She had the same feeling and did the same thing...

This is a very interesting topic because I'm having a hard time understanding empathy as well. My mom used to be mad at me when I was younger because I never helped her, but the thing is she never asked and told me that she needed help. How should I know? The same thing happens all the time, I don't understand why people expect me to understand their feelings by giving me signals. If they want me to do something then they should tell me. I guess that's the best way to put it, it's not like we are not empathetic, we just can't be empathetic in a common way.
Although sometimes when someone tells me about something that makes her/him sad, I don't understand why those things made her/him sad.

My mother used to complain about that too. So, in order to make her feel better I'd ask her if she needed help. However, then when she wanted to give me a chore that I hated doing, I would give her a hard time about it. That would get her mad. But hey--at least I tried(!) to make her feel better!!

Haha, sounds very familiar. My mom would ask me once a while but if I didn't want to do it (for whatever reason), I would say no. Then she would get upset because I said no, I was just trying to be honest. Anyhow, our relationship is a lot better now, maybe because I'm an adult and I don't live with her anymore.

The bolded one confuses me greatly. How can someone be considered bad and empathetic at the exact same time??

Empathy define two different things:

One is to decode social situations and emotions, this is what aspies lack.

The other is to to feel compassion or feeling bad for having do something bad, for which there is generally no lack among aspies. (This is what a sociopath lack though.)

In the first example, she was glad she wasn't him and enjoyed her warm bed. In the fourth, she imagined what his life was like (pretty accurately) and enjoyed her warm bed.

If we see a frown and then try to make that person smile because we know smiles are better, that is not empathy or sympathy. If we see a frown and try to make the person smile because we feel sorry for people who frown that is sympathy. If we see a frown and try to make the person smile because we know that we feel bad when we frown and we don't want the other person to feel that way, we want them to feel happy like like a smile that is empathy.

But again all definitions are debatable. It's best not to dwell on it. It's like debating if we all see the same color blue.