I can't keep female neurotypical friends

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bee33
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18 Feb 2024, 1:08 pm

Those of us who are on the spectrum have a tendency to not see social cues and therefore will often say or do things that are not in line with what the other person is expecting. I think that is what may be happening. The common denominator in most of the friendships you describe is getting blocked on social media.

Blocking someone is something that people do when they feel they have run out of options, usually after they have tried to let the other person know that the person is doing or saying things that make them uncomfortable, or just saying or doing things that aren't what they want. This is a difficult problem to fix, because if we can't see the cues that the other person is giving us, then we can't respond to them in the way that the other person would like.

One possible strategy is to try to be very conscious of not overstepping, giving them plenty of space, sending casual, very nice, messages but not too often, etc. But as others here have said, it may be exhausting and fruitless to try to be anything other than ourselves. Maybe those are friendships that just would never have worked out.



blueroses
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03 Mar 2024, 9:11 pm

I'm female and tend to have trouble making and keeping female friends also. It's always been sort of challenging, but I have noticed it's gotten more pronounced as I've gotten older. I think a large part of that is that I'm not married and chose not to have children, so I tend to have less in common with women who have chosen that route. Actually, the only female friends I do have are single and without kids, too, now that I think about.



cyberdad
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03 Mar 2024, 10:45 pm

I find with NT females communication becomes harder the younger and more attractive they are, the more narcissistic they become. Its a just a fact of life.

I read somewhere that young highly attractive females have self-awareness that when they step in public they automatically have a celebrity status. In their mind, every herero-cis man desires them, every female envies them.



TwilightPrincess
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04 Mar 2024, 9:59 am

^ That’s not a fact of life. It’s a sexist generalization.

Young women can be highly attractive AND not narcissistic. I had a few close friends like that when I was young.

Sometimes they ARE aware they are attractive, but they are also aware that they are prone to harassment. It can be hard to know if people like them for who they are which can cause self-esteem issues. Many young women struggle with eating disorders and body image problems no matter what they look like.

My overall point: it’s a bad idea to judge a book by its cover.


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blitzkrieg
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04 Mar 2024, 10:22 am

cyberdad wrote:
I find with NT females communication becomes harder the younger and more attractive they are, the more narcissistic they become. Its a just a fact of life.

I read somewhere that young highly attractive females have self-awareness that when they step in public they automatically have a celebrity status. In their mind, every herero-cis man desires them, every female envies them.


I tend to agree. It's all about balance. Someone who isn't blessed with looks is more likely to have to earn popularity (if they have any) by having a pleasant personality at least.



cyberdad
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04 Mar 2024, 3:30 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
^ That’s not a fact of life. It’s a sexist generalization.

Young women can be highly attractive AND not narcissistic. I had a few close friends like that when I was young.

Sometimes they ARE aware they are attractive, but they are also aware that they are prone to harassment. It can be hard to know if people like them for who they are which can cause self-esteem issues. Many young women struggle with eating disorders and body image problems no matter what they look like.

My overall point: it’s a bad idea to judge a book by its cover.


I am talking about the current generation who throw family values out the window and live on social media. Looks has increasingly become more currency. In the past perhaps you had the local neighbourhood boys dreaming about you, Now you can post "hot" images/videos of yourself for the entire world. They want attention. No denying that.



cyberdad
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04 Mar 2024, 3:35 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I find with NT females communication becomes harder the younger and more attractive they are, the more narcissistic they become. Its a just a fact of life.

I read somewhere that young highly attractive females have self-awareness that when they step in public they automatically have a celebrity status. In their mind, every herero-cis man desires them, every female envies them.


I tend to agree. It's all about balance. Someone who isn't blessed with looks is more likely to have to earn popularity (if they have any) by having a pleasant personality at least.


Yes attractiveness makes you popular so you do not need to try too hard. COnversely if you cant rely on looks then personality needs to shine to be popular Either way, if you are popular then by logic you are in demand in terms of your time. There was a funny line in Seinfeld where George commented on why attractive women move so fast? Sure they dont want to be harrassed. But also gotta be places and see people.

So yeah, NT girls who are "popular" are less likely to be free and therefore harder to keep as friends.



TwilightPrincess
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04 Mar 2024, 3:41 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
^ That’s not a fact of life. It’s a sexist generalization.

Young women can be highly attractive AND not narcissistic. I had a few close friends like that when I was young.

Sometimes they ARE aware they are attractive, but they are also aware that they are prone to harassment. It can be hard to know if people like them for who they are which can cause self-esteem issues. Many young women struggle with eating disorders and body image problems no matter what they look like.

My overall point: it’s a bad idea to judge a book by its cover.


I am talking about the current generation who throw family values out the window and live on social media. Looks has increasingly become more currency. In the past perhaps you had the local neighbourhood boys dreaming about you, Now you can post "hot" images/videos of yourself for the entire world. They want attention. No denying that.
You appear to be suggesting that attractive women are shallow. Believe it or not, young women don’t spend all of their free time thinking about boys/young men. Some post pictures of themselves on social media but not all of them do. Those who do are not always seeking the admiration of men although even if some are sometimes it says nothing about their overall character. My friends, including some who were “highly attractive,” and I (who wasn’t) talked about literature, hopes, dreams, goals, philosophy, interests, our college classes, politics, etc. Young women didn’t and don’t focus on romance/men as often as many seem to think. That would be incredibly boring.

Whether you are referring to the current generation or not, it’s still a sexist generalization that, in this case, appears to be facilitated by confirmation bias and mansplaining.


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cyberdad
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04 Mar 2024, 4:53 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
^ That’s not a fact of life. It’s a sexist generalization.

Young women can be highly attractive AND not narcissistic. I had a few close friends like that when I was young.

Sometimes they ARE aware they are attractive, but they are also aware that they are prone to harassment. It can be hard to know if people like them for who they are which can cause self-esteem issues. Many young women struggle with eating disorders and body image problems no matter what they look like.

My overall point: it’s a bad idea to judge a book by its cover.


I am talking about the current generation who throw family values out the window and live on social media. Looks has increasingly become more currency. In the past perhaps you had the local neighbourhood boys dreaming about you, Now you can post "hot" images/videos of yourself for the entire world. They want attention. No denying that.
You appear to be suggesting that attractive women are shallow. Believe it or not, young women don’t spend all of their free time thinking about boys/young men. Some post pictures of themselves on social media but not all of them do. Those who do are not always seeking the admiration of men although even if some are sometimes it says nothing about their overall character. My friends, including some who were “highly attractive,” and I (who wasn’t) talked about literature, hopes, dreams, goals, movies, philosophy, interests, our college classes, politics, etc. Young women didn’t and don’t focus on romance/men as often as many seem to think. That would be incredibly boring.

Whether you are referring to the current generation or not, it’s still a sexist generalization that, in this case, appears to be facilitated by confirmation bias and mansplaining.


Wait? What about other women? it's not just about getting attention from men. For example a lot of the enjoyment from buying a palatial mansion with more rooms than you need or a sports car with more power than you actually need is about showing off to your peers. Its actually not men who gawk at attractive women who are the biggest audience, the biggest audience are other women who check them out.



cyberdad
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04 Mar 2024, 4:54 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
My friends, including some who were “highly attractive,” and I (who wasn’t) talked about literature, hopes, dreams, goals, philosophy, interests, our college classes, politics, etc. .


Of course! people whether male or female have interests, dreams and aspirations.



TwilightPrincess
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04 Mar 2024, 5:03 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Wait? What about other women? it's not just about getting attention from men. For example a lot of the enjoyment from buying a palatial mansion with more rooms than you need or a sports car with more power than you actually need is about showing off to your peers. Its actually not men who gawk at attractive women who are the biggest audience, the biggest audience are other women who check them out.

It would probably be hard for you to “actually” know what motivates women since you aren’t a woman.

I seem to have the impression that your view of young women is based on the behavior of girls/women in specific movies.

In any event, your perception of reality is WAY off, and the generalization is still sexist. Most people who are highly attractive are not in the top 1% (or whatever). They are regular people like you and me. Highly attractive or not, female friends support each other much more than they show-off, compete, or fight. Competing over men, for example, happens much more in movies than in reality.

As blueroses mentioned, it can be harder to have or form friendships with people who are married with young children while you’re single and vice versa. People in both situations have different needs, goals, and constraints on their time.

cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
My friends, including some who were “highly attractive,” and I (who wasn’t) talked about literature, hopes, dreams, goals, philosophy, interests, our college classes, politics, etc.


Of course! people whether male or female have interests, dreams and aspirations.

And, on average, the same amount of intelligence.


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blitzkrieg
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04 Mar 2024, 9:47 pm

Another day on WP, another post by TP accusing men of mansplaining.

:lol: :joker:



TwilightPrincess
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04 Mar 2024, 9:54 pm

I’ve only said that when someone was mansplaining which isn’t very often. Claiming to know how women think in this context seems to fit the definition.

Mansplaining:

Quote:
verb (used with or without object)
1. (of a man) to explain something to a woman in a condescending, overconfident, and often inaccurate or oversimplified manner, typically to a woman already knowledgeable about the topic:
He was mansplaining to her about female friendships!

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/mansplain#


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blitzkrieg
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04 Mar 2024, 9:59 pm

In my opinion, men can have an opinion on what women think, and women can have an opinion on what men think.

Non-binary folk can have an opinion on either binary and what they think.



TwilightPrincess
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04 Mar 2024, 10:03 pm

When people engage in sexist generalizations, it crosses a line.

An example of mansplaining in this thread:

Quote:
Its actually not men who gawk at attractive women who are the biggest audience, the biggest audience are other women who check them out.

As a woman, I don’t need to be told who’s “actually” the biggest audience regarding young women who post selfies on social media or about female behavior in general.


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blitzkrieg
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04 Mar 2024, 10:05 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
When people engage in sexist generalizations, it crosses a line.

An example of mansplaining in this thread:
Quote:
Its actually not men who gawk at attractive women who are the biggest audience, the biggest audience are other women who check them out.

As a woman, I don’t need to be told who’s “actually” the biggest audience regarding young women who post selfies on social media or about female behavior in general.


You seem like a knowledgeable, intelligent person. I agree that you don't need to be told anything necessarily.

However, I don't think cyberdad meant any harm and I think you may take things as an affront sometimes even when there was no malice intended.