My Social Phobia Paradox

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I actually wanted to make this days ago, but never got around to it. This is just kind of me asking for whatever you have to supply, advice/agreement/similar stories.

Now I'm a shy person I guess, I feel like their are two parts of me that make me shy, my unconscious involuntary self (deep inner feelings and beliefs), and my conscious thinking self (basically thoughts and ideas, with beliefs that change whenever logic is applied immediately).

Now my unconscious feelings and deeply held beliefs about myself can truly effect me physically well speaking if I'm speaking to a lot of people, or have something long to say to a complete stranger, or doing an activity in front of people which requires very good coordination it can make me a wreck.

Now that presents a problem in my conscious stresses, now consciously I know that I can do these things because I can talk to people I'm familiar with just fine, and I know that social hesitation can be a bad thing. And I know I make mistakes and I can laugh at myself. But I do feel like I have one justified worry well talking to others, I am stressed out about the physical effects that these situations can put me in, for example, my hands become shaky, along with my shoulders and lower jaw, this sometimes makes it very difficult to communicate effectively.

Now these conscious held beliefs literally reinforce my unconscious beliefs that I cannot rely on myself, because I know right now that I cannot rely on myself staying physically relaxed. I mean I could deny the fact that I'm not going to get all shaky and my voice isn't going to break up. But I've seen it happen many times so obviously its true.

So basically unconscious belief effects my conscious thoughts, and my conscious thoughts reinforce my unconscious beliefs and so on.

I feel like in order to break the chain I either have to somehow magically stop the physical effects in which 5000 chemicals don't start involuntary rushing into my head, or convince myself that I can rely upon myself even though I can't truly promise that these things aren't going to happen.

So I can hope for a miracle or lie to myself, hmmm.

But wait there is another paradox.

I'm thinking of just ignoring the fact that I sometimes get physically unseddled, by believing that I just can't do much about it, and its just going to happen, might be the best thing that I can do.

But then if I am acting like I truly don't care about it, then why is my reason for ignoring it to end it in the first place? I mean I must want to end it so that must mean I care about it harming me.

But then I could admit that I care about it, but admit at the same time that their is nothing that I can do about it, so I shouldn't worry there is still going to be the fact that if I care about something, how can I not worry about it? I would literally have to ignore the fact that I care.

Or maybe I have to accept that I can care about something, and have the right to not worry as long as I can't help what I'm worried about?

Welcome to my mind , is yours the same way?

I completely relate to what you are saying. When I was your age (and now, too), I had the problem with the shakiness, but had no framework for analyzing it. I remember having to work at the snack bar when I was in the Air Force, and when certain high ranking individuals came in to buy something, my hands would shake so much I couldn't give them change. My big fear was that people would see it and say, "You don't need to be nervous." I don't want people to think that they are making me nervous, or that I'm afraid of them, or that I can turn off the shaking if I simply realize that I don't need to be afraid.


When I was in high school, wondering what field I might like to go into, there were a whole lot of things that I wanted to do, but I knew it would involve having to do the kinds of things that make me all shaky like that, so I didn't. I would have loved to learned to act, since I really appreciate good acting, but I never tried, because I knew I'd have all that nervous shaking, and my throat closing up with fear. I rejected all kinds of possible career fields that would involve talking to people, or doing demonstrations because of the nervous shaking. Now, I realize that other people my age are CEO's of companies, and all kinds of things, while I still basically feel like a nervous preteen.


I'm not sure what to tell you, really. You have the advantage of being able to at least think about it in a way that I could not, and to have a place like this where you can come and talk about it with people. I pretty much isolated myself, regarding the whole issue. I wonder if there is some way that people like us can get in touch with our subconscious and say, "Alright, cut it out!" It has severely limited my life.

I hope more people respond to this, though, because I'd love to hear other people's ideas.

I have read both these posts and the amount of logic that goes into unravelling the way you feel is ME all over

I noticed today I started a conversation in my head "I am feeling massively self-conscious" and rather than start to follow the belief system into a vicious cycle I stopped myself there and asked "Am I really" and then "what if I said I wasn't".

I think I defined a core belief at that point - it was like having the ignition key to anxiety.

I know that I can't talk to too many people at once and I know why, so I will never try it again. I don't know how to explain it, but it has to do with processing too much non-verbal feedback at once. It's just too much, and it's not something that one can learn. I can make a very brief statement to a large group, but that's it. I can't answer spontaneous questions. I am shy/self-conscious/intimidated, but that's not the issue. It stresses me out, but that's not the issue. Forcing myself to keep trying when I know that it's impossible is simply cruel. I wouldn't do that to someone else, so I won't do it to myself. The fact that other people don't understand and read whatever they like into it doesn't change anything. Magical wishes will not change it. I've been around long enough to know myself.

I am very careful around social interaction and at 45 years old have learned what does and what doesn't work - I sometime beat up on myself because I wonder if I am playing right into my own fight or flight mechanism and your post is encouraging.

When I tell people I am an Aspie, they say "I would never have guessed, you come across really well"

I have a friend who is blind and she comes across really well.

What I have learned from her is we use the same coping mechanism.

I have learned a lot about the context of vocal tones and I can pick a lot of social cues up by listening.

It works for me well one on one.

I can also stand in front of a room and speak.

I can do the right vocal intonations to make a piece emotive, humorous, riveting even!

I cannot follow conversations in groups of between say four and ten people.

Here is what I think happens.

Neuro-typical people make subtle shifts in their body language depending on which person they are speaking too.

They mimic one another's posture and vocal tones as well and these tiny shifts make it impossible to find a baseline with that person to work from.

In one and one conversation, there is usually enough of a warm up to establish enough of a baseline to get people's emotional shifts by picking up variations in vocal tone.

Culturally people tend to follow similar patterns anyway and it is likely I will always meet roughly the same kinds of people because I am middle class, male and 45.

So it doesn't strike me as the least bit odd that I tend to gravitate towards people with autistic traits, or anxiety disorders.

Or maybe that is what I end up talking about and I am just boring them to tears

Yeah I can totally see myself in your position with the high ranking officers, I seriously believe that it is making me have less potential, I mean I feel so limited when I can't work in those types of jobs.



I know, I always truly wonder if it matters what I think of myself, or if it is all just too deeply woven within me to even matter. Though that really does mean something to me, I mean it shows when you can ask yourself this question, when you can see these two possible scenarios, you realize that you are just a product of your opinion making you believe that if that is so then maybe you could really change yourself if you truly believed it.



Yeah I know, when I'm going to college and they ask me to public speak, I'm just going to tell them, hey I paid to come here to learn, not do something I'm never going to use, and don't want to.



Yeah I think all these tiny things come very natural to most people, they don't have to even think about it. I'm beginning to learn to say things in the way I want them to be said.

I have my own little paradox. I find it nearly impossible to talk to people with out feeling like I'm going to go insane, yet I'm always talking to someone.

So you always feel like you're going to go insane?

Could you try talking to people less?

My mom is like this, but I'm not.

I can improvise a speech in front of a crowd, or walk up to a total stranger and strike up a conversation. If they don't like me, too bad. Now if only I could read/project body language accurately, and understand how all these strange people think, I'd be set.

Conversing is difficult for me. I have either these problems:

A) I chirp in at the wrong time, thus getting scolded. If I get scolded, I get a phobic and use stress reactions against it - which make the person I'm conversing with irate and more scolding ensues. At one time, the scolding was actual beatings - thus the stress reactions.

B) I make a joke and nobody gets it, thus an awkward silence. I instantly feel like I've gotten too bold and setting myself up for something bad.

C) I talk too long, and I get clucked at. This is less stressful but is irritating to be clucked at.

Yes, Yes, Yes...

This is what makes having an ASD so brilliant...

People I know will say "oh you can't do such and such it's not socially acceptable"

And I just say "why the hell not" and do it anyway

Talking to random people is not very British

I do it anyway!

One aspect of the failure in my own life is the topic you contemplate in your post Mr. LucidDreamGod. I have always struggled with the problem of my mind disengaging and shutting off at the most perfect inopportune times. This usually involved an unknown situation, a confrontation not prepared for, or dealing with an authority figure or superior (similar to elderwanda's but usually more direct such as a presentation). When I was younger I found that alcohol would somewhat alleviate the problem, but would of course result in others just as problematic. In fact, some people I associated with preferred me a little tipsy, as I was way easier to get along with. You just can't go through life loaded all the time though, so ya have to find a solution. Unfortunately, I don't know what that solution is. However, after years of studying my own problem, I think I may be close to seeing what might be a solution. This possible solution revolves around two things. 1. When I was in business school, they taught that when selling/promoting a product, you have to be confident in the product and be completely sold on that product yourself as well as thoroughly knowledgeable in said product. 2. Voltaire wrote at the end in Candide to find your place/work in life concentrate fully on that and you will at least be content. I believe, if you can find an endeavor you can be passionate and thoroughly knowledgeable about, you will soon never be nervous about discussing it with anyone. From there, hopefully, any ice would already be broken. Does that help?

Interesting paradox...but how to break the loop once and for all...

Cognitive therapy goes a long way in breaking these cycles. It's based on meditation and controlled awareness.

I mainly do it by becoming more "body aware" that is, becoming aware of every muscle in my toes, then my feet, my legs, all the way up to the top of my head. Then back down, or picking a particular group of muscles like my face and trying to identify, by feeling, every muscle there and trying to relax it.

Becoming aware of and relaxing your muscles focuses attention into controlling body responses like flushes and shakes.

Some people concentrate on their breathing, or focus on distant sounds etc. I used to do it with music and focus on one particular aspect of the music (cymbals, drums, singing etc) and try to block the rest of the music out. The point is to put your mind sort of outside of itself, and force it to be distracted to what you want it to be distracted to, rather then doing everything it wants to.

I gave up trying to solve these stress type issues on a logical and thinking way, and worked at breaking the panic cycles on more of a physical level. I found stopping the body responses worked much better than trying to stop the thoughts directly. Stupid body responses go off completely at random for many Aspies. I had to just accept it was random instead of making up excuses on why I felt the way I did and doing my head damage.

Don't think about why your hands are shaking, just try to relax physically, watch your breathing, learn to hold the negative sensations off a little bit more at a time. Practice this in non-stress situations. Take note of how it makes you feel and how you achieved it. Bring these methods back in slightly more stressful situations, like just being in public at varying degrees of crowding. If it gets overwhelming, back off, relax. Push yourself, but don't force yourself. Find your comfort zone and slowly make it bigger.

Be good to yourself, why on earth wouldn't you be? Don't be your own enemy! Ignore what you think others think of you. You are you, and only you have a right to judge you. They don't know how you think, although they pretend to.

It won't all happen in one day but it will happen one day. Starting and continuing makes sure it will happen.

Took ages, lots of work, lots of concentration, but eventually it worked.

I can't say I was like everyone else, but I stopped feeling like I was on fire.