Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Capitalism and the Video Game Industry

Page 2 of 3 [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,100
Location: Stendec

09 May 2024, 9:38 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Capitalism is just an economic system wherein the means of production are not owned by the workers.  It is neither evil nor good, but only a means of making value-added profit for those who DO own the means of production -- the Capitalists.  So basically, if you want the capitalists to solve the world's problems, you have to convince them that doing so would be more profitable than ignoring or even causing those very same problems. 
But no one seems either willing or able to do that, I'm afraid.
Let's put the workers in control of the means of production then.
Sure . . . and will that be cash or credit?


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


Aspiegaming
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,123
Location: Hagerstown, MD

09 May 2024, 10:10 pm

Fnord wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Capitalism is just an economic system wherein the means of production are not owned by the workers.  It is neither evil nor good, but only a means of making value-added profit for those who DO own the means of production -- the Capitalists.  So basically, if you want the capitalists to solve the world's problems, you have to convince them that doing so would be more profitable than ignoring or even causing those very same problems. 
But no one seems either willing or able to do that, I'm afraid.
Let's put the workers in control of the means of production then.
Sure . . . and will that be cash or credit?


Okay enough of that. The capitalists are shortsighted and corrupt. At least workers know the factories, warehouses, kitchens, and farms like the backs of their hands. They work hard and deserve better.

Maybe you should go back to reading your Ayn Rand novels since you love capitalists so much.


_________________
I am sick, and in so being I am the healthy one.

If my darkness or eccentricness offends you, I don't really care.

I will not apologize for being me.


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,989
Location: Adelaide, Australia

09 May 2024, 11:25 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Capitalism is just another way of saying the race to the bottom. Of course it poisons everything it touches, that's what toxins do.

That's it! From now on I'm only playing video games made by socialist countries! What follows is a list of video games I will be playing.

  • Tetris


End of list


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,989
Location: Adelaide, Australia

09 May 2024, 11:36 pm

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Capitalism is just an economic system wherein the means of production are not owned by the workers.  It is neither evil nor good, but only a means of making value-added profit for those who DO own the means of production -- the Capitalists.

So basically, if you want the capitalists to solve the world's problems, you have to convince them that doing so would be more profitable than ignoring or even causing those very same problems.

But no one seems either willing or able to do that, I'm afraid.


Let's put the workers in control of the means of production then.

Pretty much every American worker can own a piece of the means of production in America in the mega-corporations they work for if they buy stock in that company.Some rank-and-file workers who started out dirt poor in their career have even become millionaires doing that.So virtually every American worker can buy stock if they have the money.The capitalist system in America provides a way for workers to own the means of production.However I must concede all they would get is ownership and not control.


The trouble is trying to afford one stock which can be very expensive depending on the value.

Good point but there are ways around that.There is fractional ownership which allows you to own just a piece of a share of stock.You could also invest 1 dollar into a index fund or ETF and you would own a piece of 500 to 3,000 plus stocks depending on the fund.

Ironically capitalism is the only system that allows the workers to own the means of production. No king or dictator ever allowed the workers control over that.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


Texasmoneyman300
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,366
Location: Texas

09 May 2024, 11:53 pm

Lol.Great point although the Marxists would prolly argue that the workers collectively own the means of production through their government.There has never been a true communist country just like there has never been a true capitalist country in the history of the world.Even America is not 100 percent free market obviously.Before capitalism came along the vast majority like 90 to 99 percent of the population was in third world poverty living on 1 to 2 dollars a day so capitalism has made a lot of the world not just America richer and have a much higher quality of life because it would still be like the third world if the Industrial Revolution never happened.Also another thing to think about is that even min wage workers at Walmart have a much higher standard of living than the elites like royalty and nobility of many centuries ago.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,100
Location: Stendec

10 May 2024, 1:10 am

Aspiegaming wrote:
The capitalists are shortsighted and corrupt. At least workers know the factories, warehouses, kitchens, and farms like the backs of their hands. They work hard and deserve better.
There is one critical point you are overlooking: The Capitalists OWN the factories, warehouses, kitchens, and farms.  What do the workers own?  Not hella much, which is why they rarely ever organize and offer to buy the means of production from the current owners.  If they did, then they could divert all the profits into their own pockets.

But no . . . it is much more fun to complain about a system which they cannot control, yet which they cannot live without, either.

Sucks to be them, I guess.


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,100
Location: Stendec

10 May 2024, 1:12 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Ironically capitalism is the only system that allows the workers to own the means of production. No king or dictator ever allowed the workers control over that.
Sure!  All they gotta do is pool their individual resources and either make an offer to buy a business that is currently owned by a Capitalist, or use their pooled resources to start up a competing business of their own.


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,989
Location: Adelaide, Australia

10 May 2024, 2:29 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Lol.Great point although the Marxists would prolly argue that the workers collectively own the means of production through their government.

Collectively own the means of production through the government sounds like another way of saying the government owns the means of production. Government would own the land too. How many people in the USSR owned their own house?

The socialists like to villify landlords and say under socialism there will be no landlords. Yet in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics they had this guy as their landlord.

Image


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,100
Location: Stendec

10 May 2024, 4:05 am

 

Image

 
Image

 
Image

 
Image


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


Yugoslav1945
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2023
Age: 19
Gender: Male
Posts: 563
Location: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

10 May 2024, 4:35 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Capitalism is just another way of saying the race to the bottom. Of course it poisons everything it touches, that's what toxins do.

That's it! From now on I'm only playing video games made by socialist countries! What follows is a list of video games I will be playing.

  • Tetris


End of list


Don't forget "Worker's and Resources - Soviet Republic" though it wouldn't be classified as made in a socialist country given that the game was made after Czechoslovakia went bye bye, the Slovak game company technically resides in a country that was ex-socialist so.


_________________
"In a socialist society such phenomena must and will disappear. In the old Yugoslavia national oppression by the great-Serb capitalist clique meant strengthening the economic exploitation of the oppressed peoples. This is the inevitable fate of all who suffer from national oppression."

- Josip Broz Tito (Ljubljana, 1948)


Yugoslav1945
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2023
Age: 19
Gender: Male
Posts: 563
Location: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

10 May 2024, 4:36 am

Fnord wrote:
 
Image

 
Image

 
Image

 
Image


Aww, good old Tito is the "landlord" of the Yugoslavs. At least he feeds his people with Brotherhood and Unity unlike the rest in the pics.


_________________
"In a socialist society such phenomena must and will disappear. In the old Yugoslavia national oppression by the great-Serb capitalist clique meant strengthening the economic exploitation of the oppressed peoples. This is the inevitable fate of all who suffer from national oppression."

- Josip Broz Tito (Ljubljana, 1948)


Yugoslav1945
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2023
Age: 19
Gender: Male
Posts: 563
Location: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

10 May 2024, 4:38 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Lol.Great point although the Marxists would prolly argue that the workers collectively own the means of production through their government.

Collectively own the means of production through the government sounds like another way of saying the government owns the means of production. Government would own the land too. How many people in the USSR owned their own house?

The socialists like to villify landlords and say under socialism there will be no landlords. Yet in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics they had this guy as their landlord.

Image


Image

Blame the Russians for putting a Georgian and letting him use them as their toys for his emotions.


_________________
"In a socialist society such phenomena must and will disappear. In the old Yugoslavia national oppression by the great-Serb capitalist clique meant strengthening the economic exploitation of the oppressed peoples. This is the inevitable fate of all who suffer from national oppression."

- Josip Broz Tito (Ljubljana, 1948)


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,989
Location: Adelaide, Australia

10 May 2024, 6:11 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Lol.Great point although the Marxists would prolly argue that the workers collectively own the means of production through their government.

Collectively own the means of production through the government sounds like another way of saying the government owns the means of production. Government would own the land too. How many people in the USSR owned their own house?

The socialists like to villify landlords and say under socialism there will be no landlords. Yet in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics they had this guy as their landlord.

Image


Image

Blame the Russians for putting a Georgian and letting him use them as their toys for his emotions.


But there is always someone to use them and abuse them. If it's not a Georgian it will be someone else. They got rid od the tsar and they got another tsar.

What are you going to do after the next revolution? Get rid of the old selfish and exploitative leader and hope that just by chance his replacment won't be another selfish and exploitative leader?

We know how that ends.

Image


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


Yugoslav1945
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2023
Age: 19
Gender: Male
Posts: 563
Location: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

10 May 2024, 7:09 am

^ I beg to differ with Tito though. Seeing that Tito had good will for Yugoslavia clearly disproves such "unchanging". If we are intellectual beings, we can change our personality when it comes to leading a socialist state. Is the cycle unbreakable? I do not think so. If Tito disproved reactionary commies with his benevolent and charismatic personality, then it clearly presents solid evidence that there is a chance of an actually competent leader. It just takes the right set of trials of suffering and studying the injustice and identifying the exact issue to make one man a great leader for all.


_________________
"In a socialist society such phenomena must and will disappear. In the old Yugoslavia national oppression by the great-Serb capitalist clique meant strengthening the economic exploitation of the oppressed peoples. This is the inevitable fate of all who suffer from national oppression."

- Josip Broz Tito (Ljubljana, 1948)


ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,651

10 May 2024, 12:42 pm

Not saying strong socialism can work in a big nation state, but I don't think this idea of buying the means of production from the elite is the best thing to do, although it may be better than nothing. The wealth would still be concentrated into the same small number of hands. Another option would be confiscation, just taking it. We already have this to a small degree with taxation.

OTOH there's a lot to be said for just working for an employer if the conditions are fairly good. I've been in a worker co-operative, and although there was a definite sense of autonomy and dignity about it (rather like running a business), we worked harder and longer than I ever worked in an ordinary job.



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,989
Location: Adelaide, Australia

10 May 2024, 8:29 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Not saying strong socialism can work in a big nation state, but I don't think this idea of buying the means of production from the elite is the best thing to do, although it may be better than nothing. The wealth would still be concentrated into the same small number of hands. Another option would be confiscation, just taking it. We already have this to a small degree with taxation.

You're thinking of this as a zero sum game. How can you think of this as a positive sum game?

Remember there is no absolute fixed limit on the number of factories that can exist in the world at any one time.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short