Male/Female emotional core and my own experiences

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Hi guys . I have something that I want to discuss here regarding male/female interaction, particularly emotional styles and what kinds of emotion men/women more often seek out than the other (I guess in that sense its even moreso a discussion of male/female internal structure).

What brought this home to me a long time ago was that I definitely have two sides. When I was younger, especially in highschool, I had a feminine side - which showed, and while a combination of AS and my own pickiness kept me single I noticed that women ate this side of me up. Where that ended - I also had a side of myself much deeper, a side that was much more epic and yes - male minded in that regard. I realized that, at least as me with my strengths and weaknesses, I couldn't be accepted as both. As a guy I liked the later side of myself a lot more, I could relate to guys much more easily - the strange thing, women weren't feeling it at all.

I look back on my early 20's as well - the time where I was really trying to be the most steeled up and hardened NT version of myself that I could, but at the same time sport it with intelligence and sport it with compassion. Women still saw, at least in some eye expressions, some facets of my facial appearance, that I had at least at some point had that feminine side in myself that was dormant, again, if they approached me they would only react to that side and - when I brought the side of myself out that I was proud of, the side that had me feeling like I was at my best - they'd seem confused, then fexed, then it was off.

Right now what I really want to do is go back and get a better understanding of what that was, why it happened, but further - I really wish I could have understand what it was that women wanted out of that side of me. They were sincerely attracted, I don't think they wanted a friend to go shopping with, but - they were fully expecting me to speak in that dialect of NT that, when I was 20 or so - I understood that I was hearing the English language spoken but from the thought structure and sheer angularlity of it it might as well have been Russian, some guys who were more ladies men in the sense of being more to that side - when they were talking to women and vice a versa - it sounded like jibberish where every thought was coming way out of the blue; no way in heck that I'd try that when I knew exactly what kind of response 'coming in from way out in left field' had gotten me my entire life. Also that epic side of myself, the side of me that really shot for what I felt was larger or more transcendental emotion - I wanted someone to share that with; found out rather quick that I was able to share that with my guy friends, women not so much.

The understanding I think I'm coming to here as a start - there is a certain type of emotion that women really like a lot - its their center. I wish I had the right word to explain or adjectify what it is or how it works; to me its a very slowed and intensive sort of state, I have to add 'stoned' because its an emotional place that for me at least seems like its pulverizing both time and objective reality with with a hammer. Part of what sent me away from it is that it was that - as you might guess, I felt it to the point of sheer dysphoria. For guys - a lot of guys do crave a certain emotional sphere, as much as women may or may not see it its as beatiful but its built differently. I get the sense that 'epic' emotion is much more of a guy feeling, that women can appreciate it to an extent but about to the extent that guys can appreciate where women ultimately are chasing emotionally for fulfillment. Guys I think find a deep, driving, and compelling beauty in the epic - likely in equal measure, but also the epic at the same time feels extremely healthy for masculinity, almost like its vitamins for backbone and emotional health as we're built.

I think I'll start this one off with two questions:

1) From your own observations on this - do you think I'm right? That women love a more sort of relationship geared heart felt sort of emotional sense whereas the more common plateau for guys to chase is epicism at an equal intensity?

2) For the women reading this - if you could put it in the most accurate words you can summon, if you wanted to take a paint brush and acrylic and paint a vivid and accurate picture of exactly what that word is like, what it does for you, where it takes you, if you can analyze what it fundamentally means, how would you describe it?

I want to understand these things because, it really makes my brain itch seeing the world a certain way but not being able to fully understand it. Just like sometimes I wish some of the same women I had talked to could have understand that as a guy, even as I had that emotional set at that point in my life - I couldn't make it work and actually survive as 'me' at that point. Right now in my life I think I probably should start reintegrating myself on that leven but I'm still sizing it up to who I am and trying to get a sense of how, as well as what will work for me if I do so (ie. what will be effective emotional communication and what will send women into taking one piece of me and rejecting everything else).

In reality - I have to have a balance, to where yes - I can give something to someone else that they want rather than cover up a side of myself that is in fact there but, of course without the guys thinking I'm a b***h and the girls trampling me - just like right now with my chasing my more epic/controlled/logical side that the guys have a lot of respect but the women are vexed and shut down/turned off. The one answer I won't accept is that its a no win - that men (or women) are evil so just go with the other, its as bad as saying you have to be Christian to be a capitalist or Atheist to be a Marxist - no correlation whatsoever aside from current culture bloc politics. I'm really trying to figure this out and I'd especially like a woman's input, who feels like she understand female emotion well in addition to what emotional boundaries they do have and why. I really think on both sides this can be answered by and large by 'why its there' to evolutionary pyschology and single focus vs. difuse awareness as well as the secondary and teriary effects of what gender roll did to specialization and ultimately identity. What I'd love to get is an empathetic understanding of it, hopefully so that I may be able to in time explore what gusts of that emotion do hit me and feel confident with it rather than feeling like I'm at risk of being vaporized by it.

techstep, can you describe what you mean by "epic" emotion? If you could give a few examples, I think I'd be a bit clearer on why women might react negatively to it. Very interesting post, though.

Edited: What? I never said that.

Edited: Just pretend I was never here.

I think that you didn't want that feminine side to be consumed. You have to be vulnerable to experience love. I think if you act a part, whether it's a masculine role or whatever, you can't love from that false self and neither can anyone truly love a false self. That would be experienced as a game of sorts in which both parties will feel that something is off, unless of course one is so unaware of the reality of the situation. It is hard to love such an oblivious person. Even if that girl really loved that facade part of you, you would know that she didn't really know you and so you would not be satisfied or be able to keep putting up that front without feeling emotionally exhausted. Plus, you would learn to resent her because she will be pulling your strings.

I've noticed that guys who have a problem with being in a real loving relationship oftentimes resent the power that he perceives the female to have. The masculine side craves a woman whom he can overpower. The female side desires to be taken care of. If you are at your core, more feminine, then you will attract women who wish to take care of you. Are you okay with that? If not, then I think that may be the real problem.

I think I know what the OP is referring to. I don't think it's about putting up a false front, though if it is then that's another story.

I have experienced something also where it seems the emotional states where I feel best and most fulfilled sometimes have a way of turning off women. Normally, I tend to "swing" on a spectrum that essentially has two endpoints, one where I feel bored, ordinary, and kind of sick of life, and at the other end where I feel very confident and kind of above reality, so to speak.

This sort of "larger than life" feeling does not come from trying to project anything to the outside world, in fact it is much the opposite, it is based on a sense of the self really coming to terms with an aspect of the world, a sense that it is OK to simply be yourself and great things will come, because the world is great. It is a strong sense of power, but not of a need to put others down. It often results from accomplishing something to do with a special interest or talent, stumbling on some kind of revelation, etc. It is also mimicked to some degree, in susceptible people, by chemical stimulants such as caffeine and amphetamines, which accounts (in my mind) for a significant part of their addictiveness.

I find that showing this kind of emotion tends to attract other guys, because they sense the excitement and want to be impressed too. I know I'm attracted to guys who come across this way. And, you think it would attract women too, since they say they like confidence. However, while occasionally this is true, they often seem to be attracted to me when I'm feeling really bland. There are some reasons I've thought of for this:

1. Particularly with us aspie guys, women might not have a clue what we're excited about when we are. This may make it look insincere. On the contrary, the things we consider really mundane are ones they relate to, so it seems "real".

2. Unfortunately, possibly because of the demands and responsibilities placed on them, many women are "stabilophiles". I know a lot of us aspie guys like comfortable routines, knowing what is expected of us, etc.--but NT women are much worse than this. A lot of them practically have a fetish for security. Now, there are certainly women who like guys who can bring a thrill into their lives, but before that they need to have a feeling of being safe and protected practically shoved down their throats. For this reason they like men who are even a little melancholy because it fosters seeking the help and care of others. (but if it does not make them seek this, it's bad)

3. It seems to be a sign of maturity to not get too excited about things. I consider that unfortunate, and so do many guys, but women tend to be "maturophiles" too, and I think boyishness turns a lot of them off. Now, it's not that mature men cant feel powerful and confident. It's just that when they do, it is often tempered by a sense of realism and sober responsibility. The only ones who show really off-the-wall excitement are those who are socially dominant/high status.

4. Kind of related to the last one, it also seems that excitability is inversely related to social connectedness. That's just because if your mood is affected by everyone else's, the mood of anyone regresses toward the mean. So, feeling high energy, unless around others who are high energy too, creates a kind of disconnect that us aspies don't mind but that NTs don't like.

5. That thing Magnus says about resenting power is so true. Us guys only tend to willing accept a woman (or anyone for that matter) asserting power over us when we feel rather weak. Now of course power need not be a zero-sum game, but unfortunately many women have a habit of using their power to manipulate men, which causes understandable resentment. So, even in the chance we do meet a woman who doesn't want to exert power over us, we may not notice.

I think there are two ways NTs get around this issue. One is that they can avoid being rambunctious without getting depressed and apathetic or bitter (which repels people even MORE). That middle ground is sometimes hard for aspie (and even NT) guys. The other is that they tend to show their highest confidence in situations where there are others around to recognize and back up that confidence. This is also often hard for us, as we're most confident when alone.

Wow, a lot of answers - good to see. I'll have to respond to some of these later as I have to get ready for work real soon. What I will say though for now, all sides of this are authentic and real emotion as well as authentic or real self. Its trying to strike a balance of honoring both sides while keeping things in a zone that's healthy. My own challenge has been like taking a highway cloverleaf at 120 on a sportbike - I'm somewhat stuck to one side right now and if I start pressing in the other direction I'll tankslap *hard*. I think that's more my own structural problem as in women want more of the one side from me but when they have gotten it in the past they really didn't like the result, which they couldn't have known how I internally react.

For the emotional core

techstep, I seriously can't wait to read your next response - this thread is so interesting! I can't tell if you and some of the other responders are talking about being a bit of an "adrenaline junkie" or maybe being a bit "manic" or a some type of outward projection of grandiosity? Don't know, but very interested to find out.

I will tell you that there's definitely something about a man who appears quiet or shy or deep that can be an incredible turn-on to certain women (particularly if he's physically appealing). I'm not speaking for all women here at all, but we all know the circumstance in which even a quiet man is not going to be so quiet, and being able to bring that out of a quiet man....well, it's kind of a rush. From the female perspective, that scenario definitely evokes a feeling of power, mixed with a strong sense of nurturing - that combination can be powerfully attractive. I hope I'm not totally off-base, or taking the thread in the wrong direction, but I thought I'd put that out there.

I hate alcohol

Edited