Page 1 of 4 [ 55 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,577
Location: Seattle-ish

07 Oct 2010, 8:19 pm

Here's how government intrusion into people's lives starts:

NY seeks to ban sugary drinks from food stamp buys

The AP wrote:
NEW YORK — Using food stamps to buy sodas, teas, sports drinks and other sugar-sweetened beverages would not be allowed in New York City under a new government effort to battle obesity.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Gov. David Paterson announced Thursday that they are seeking permission from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, which administers the nation's food stamp program, to add sugary drinks to the list of prohibited goods for city residents receiving assistance.

If approved, it would be the first time an item would be banned from the federal program based solely on nutritional value.

Spending government money on "foods of little or no nutritional value not only contradicts the intent of the program, it also effectively subsidizes a serious public health epidemic," New York officials wrote in their proposal.

The idea has been suggested before, including in 2008 in Maine, where it drew criticism from advocates for the poor who argued it unfairly singled out low-income people and risked scaring off potential needy recipients.

In 2004, the USDA rejected Minnesota's plan to ban junk food, including soda and candy, from food stamp purchases, saying it would violate the Food Stamp Act's definition of what is food and could create "confusion and embarrassment" at the register.

New York City Health Commissioner Thomas Farley said he believes New York's request has a better chance of being approved than the "skimpy" 2004 Minnesota program because it focuses only on beverages.

He said it also has the advantage of being a temporary program with an evaluation plan to study its effectiveness.

USDA spokesman Aaron Lavallee said Thursday the agency received the proposal and will consider it.

The food stamp system, launched in the 1960s, serves some 40 million Americans per month and does not currently restrict any food item based on nutrition.

Recipients can essentially buy any food for the household, although there are some limits on hot or prepared foods. Food stamps also cannot be used to buy alcohol, cigarettes or items such as pet food, vitamins or household goods.

The ban would apply to any beverage that contains more than 10 calories per 8 ounces, except for milk products, milk substitutes like soy milk and rice milk, and fruit juices without added sugar.

A 20-ounce sugar-sweetened drink can contain the equivalent of as many as 16 packets of sugar.

Some New Yorkers who receive the assistance said officials had good intentions but felt the proposal went too far.

"I can see the sodas, but suppose somebody's in bad shape and they just want juice?" said Harold Vilson, a 56-year-old Brooklyn resident who said he uses food stamps.

"If people want to buy that stuff, they should be able to. If it's not an illegal product, they should be able to buy what they want to buy."

The program would be temporary, so officials could study its effects over two years. It would apply only to food stamp recipients in New York City — 1.7 million of the city's more than 8 million residents — and would not affect the amount of assistance they receive.

"Sugar-sweetened drinks are not worth the cost to our health, and government shouldn't be promoting or subsidizing them," said Bloomberg, who also has outlawed trans-fats in restaurant food and has forced chain restaurants to post calorie counts on menus.

In fiscal year 2009, New Yorkers received $2.7 billion in food stamp benefits and spent $75 million to $135 million of that on sugary drinks, the city said.

Officials said stores that participate in the food stamp program would be responsible for enforcing the ban. They acknowledged the possibility that food stamp users could travel outside city limits to buy the prohibited drinks.

Advocates for the poor expressed alarm about the proposal, which the New York City Coalition Against Hunger said "punishes poor people for the supposed crime of being poor."

"It's sending the message to low-income people that they are uniquely the only people in America who don't know how to take care of their family," said Joel Berg, the group's executive director. "The problem isn't that they're making poor choices, the problem is that they can't afford nutritious food."

There still are many unhealthful products New Yorkers could purchase with food stamps, including potato chips, ice cream and candy. Officials said the proposal targets sugary drinks because they are the largest contributor to obesity.

More than half of adult New York City residents are overweight or obese, along with nearly 40 percent of public school students in kindergarten through eighth grade.

City officials said lower-income residents are most likely to drink one or more sugar-sweetened drinks a day; adult-onset diabetes is also twice as common among poor New Yorkers compared to the wealthiest.

In New York, a proposal to adopt a penny-per-ounce tax on sweetened soda failed to get out of the state Legislature earlier this year; Bloomberg backed the state proposal.

Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


See how it starts? Language about a new "war", this time on "obesity", a sop to the public interest by referencing the cost of treating weight related ailments and some talk about how we're currently subsidizing soda, and suddenly you've got Mike Bloomberg in your shopping cart telling you what you're allowed to eat and drink. Look at how broad the proposed restrictions are too; as one objector rightly pointed out many fruit juices will fall afoul of these regulations, and products using sugar substitutes aren't even mentioned. This is not the proper response to the rather small evil of people on food assistance being allowed to make questionable nutritional choices, but I suppose that's about par for the course for Bloomberg.


_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

07 Oct 2010, 8:29 pm

Dox, when will you learn that freedom is bad? If we allow freedom, then people will make choices. Choices are never a good idea.



takemitsu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 601

07 Oct 2010, 8:37 pm

Sounds like Hidden Valley is behind this.


_________________
b8d0f0/bbe4a6


skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

07 Oct 2010, 8:58 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Dox, when will you learn that freedom is bad? If we allow freedom, then people will make choices. Choices are never a good idea.



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVp8UGjECt4[/youtube]


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

07 Oct 2010, 9:50 pm

Ugh. I think the idea of restricting certain foods is wrong headed. I don't buy the notion that "junk food" is completely non-nutritious. Sure, people who are overweight and/or have a sedentary lifestyle should avoid it, but the harm is minimal to very active people with a high metabolism. I don't see why healthy/active people should be restricted from eating "junk food".



Hanotaux
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 9 Aug 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 355

08 Oct 2010, 12:47 am

No one is really being banned from drinking "sugary drinks." At the end of the day, taxpayers are paying for these luxuries for Food-Stampers. Why should people get to gorge Ho-Ho's and pound Red-Bull on the taxpayer dime?

Let Food-Stamps and EBT cards be only good to pay for bread, milk, butter, etc.

Unfortunately stores like Walgreens accept EBT for Liquor, tobacco, etc. Why should Taxpayer money be used for people to pay for these luxuries? Never mind the harm to their health, but it just isn't right.

I guess people poor enough on the dole should just pay for their luxuries with their own petty cash. No one is saying they can't get Energy drinks if they want them bad enough, but just don't use their food stamps to pay for them. I get so tired of seeing the discarded empty Food-Stamp booklets trashing the floor of grocery-stores, or shady-looking people charging dip on their EBT card.



BigK
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 400

08 Oct 2010, 1:17 am

If you want to buy sugary drinks, cigarettes, alcohol etc get a job. ;)

The kids should be drinking water anyway.

Wouldn't the libertarian approach be to let the people starve?


_________________
"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door," he used to say. "You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.

"How can it not know what it is?"


Wombat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Oct 2006
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,051

08 Oct 2010, 1:51 am

I don't mind the idea of banning certain things from food stamps.

The idea is that you are so poor that the government has to stop you and your children starving to death.

So yes, by all means ban soft drinks and cookies and junk food and cigarettes and alcohol.

As a previous poster said, if you want those things then get a job or shut the hell up.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

08 Oct 2010, 2:22 am

I don't have a huge problem with them limiting those kinds of items with food stamps since that is government funds. It's problem though when they start adding huge taxes on certain items that people have to pay for out of their own pocket. They're already doing this in a lot of areas.

I don't agree with idea of adding any penalty taxes on soda. I don't see anything inherently unhealthy about drinking soda in moderation. I think it's rather ridiculous to make soda and other sugary beverages a scapegoat for the obesity problem. All excess calories you consume contribute to becoming overweight. There's nothing especially dangerous about sugar unless you're already pre-diabetic.



Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,577
Location: Seattle-ish

08 Oct 2010, 2:28 am

Hanotaux wrote:
Unfortunately stores like Walgreens accept EBT for Liquor, tobacco, etc. Why should Taxpayer money be used for people to pay for these luxuries? Never mind the harm to their health, but it just isn't right.


I'm not calling you a liar or anything, but I've used an EBT card and what you're describing is patently illegal; unless the involved merchants are using some sort of work around EBT can't even be used for things like pet food and or dish soap. Now there is such a thing as EBT cash, which is a different sort of benefit that uses the EBT system to function like a prepaid debit card which like other direct cash assistance payments is spent at the user's discretion. To the casual observer that may look like someone using food benefits to buy cigarettes and liquor, but is actually a totally different assistance program that just uses the EBT infrastructure. What I have seen is people selling EBT food benefits for a percentage of the value in order to spend the cash on illegal or disallowed commodities; a former employer of mine used to buy groceries from a guy with a food card who was willing to take half the cash value so that he could go buy booze with the money.


_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson


Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

08 Oct 2010, 2:46 am

Food stamps are kind of a unique issue. I don't have much of a problem of soda or other food of limited nutritional value not being cover by food stamps since the point is to keep these people from starving. I don't see it combating obesity too much(I think that's more of an issue with a modern lifestyle.) but the taxpayer shouldn't be paying for these foods and if it has a positive affect on the their health great if not whatever, at least the money was spent more appropriately. They're not banning anything, they can still eat or drink whatever just not on our dime.

Now stuff like literally banning trans fat and raw milk and whatever, I have problem with.



Hanotaux
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 9 Aug 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 355

08 Oct 2010, 2:55 am

Quote:
I'm not calling you a liar or anything, but I've used an EBT card and what you're describing is patently illegal; unless the involved merchants are using some sort of work around EBT can't even be used for things like pet food and or dish soap. Now there is such a thing as EBT cash, which is a different sort of benefit that uses the EBT system to function like a prepaid debit card which like other direct cash assistance payments is spent at the user's discretion. To the casual observer that may look like someone using food benefits to buy cigarettes and liquor, but is actually a totally different assistance program that just uses the EBT infrastructure. What I have seen is people selling EBT food benefits for a percentage of the value in order to spend the cash on illegal or disallowed commodities; a former employer of mine used to buy groceries from a guy with a food card who was willing to take half the cash value so that he could go buy booze with the money.


I've never used an EBT card.......

Wether they use the EBT card as it is, or the other pre-paid debit system you mention doesn't really make it any more palatable or justifiable either way though. I'm not as familiar firsthand as you are with the program details, but wether its one program or another spent "at the user's discretion," I don't see it as being any different really. I don't think I'd ask some random Nigerian buying Colt 45 to his face 'which program he was using to make that purchase,' and it wouldn't matter to me either way anyway.

I've never been on services, but it would seem between Sec-8 housing, both EBT infrastructural benefits you mention, welfare, food-stamps, unemployment, etc, it would seem someone so clever could really milk a small fortune from the system by the time it was all said and done.



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

08 Oct 2010, 4:20 am

"Get your government hands off my food stamps?"

Once the government says it wants to ban junk food outright, I'll join you in your outrage. But the idea that the government gets a say in what you spend government money on seems reasonable enough to me.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


BigK
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 400

08 Oct 2010, 4:27 am

Hanotaux wrote:
I don't think I'd ask some random Nigerian buying Colt 45 to his face 'which program he was using to make that purchase,' and it wouldn't matter to me either way anyway.


Where do Nigerians come into to this? I thought this was about NY, NY, USA.

Aren't the majority of claimants Americans?


_________________
"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door," he used to say. "You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.

"How can it not know what it is?"


Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 45,569
Location: Houston, Texas

08 Oct 2010, 4:30 am

While I feel if people are on food stamps, they would be better spent on healthier food, I don't feel that the government should regulate what foods people can or can't eat.


_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!

Now proficient in ChatGPT!


Wombat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Oct 2006
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,051

08 Oct 2010, 6:19 am

Leaving aside food stamps they say that poor people spend more money on take out food and junk food and booze and cigarettes than middle class people.

We don't really care about those losers, it is their children we care about.
Do you give a hoot about "Octomom" ? No but we shouldn't blame her 14 children just because she is a total idiot.

What if she or others like her could spend the welfare money on junk food and booze and makeup while her children are malnourished and dressed in dirty rags?