Lying to Attract a Mate

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hyperlexian
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10 Dec 2010, 4:15 pm

Janissy wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

[but at the end of the link was a bunch of angry people. you can find those everywhere on the internet. search for cat haters and dog haters and you will find the same drivel. they are not to be taken seriously, and any potential date who who does take that kind of forum seriously is not worth dating (i.e. shallow).

.

So if a woman has never heard of Aspergers Syndrome and that forum is what she finds when she googles, and she takes it seriously, she is therefore shallow? How is she supposed to know it's drivel? You are assuming that any woman who isn't shallow will just inherently know to disbelieve what she reads because....because why? Because the posters on it are angry? You have insider knowledge of Aspergers Syndrome that lets you know that site is unreasonable. But to somebody with no such insider knowledge, there is no way of knowing it is unreasonable. And that's a danger that is a true concern to men here. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent site of NT men venting about AS women (at least that I could find) so the risk in disclosing straight up is less for AS women than AS men.

if you google a disorder that you are unaware of, would you take a forum like that at face value, honestly?

yes, it is shallow to take forum rantings as any kind of truth. critical thinking techniques are taught in school, and i would definitely consider someone who believed that kind of drivel to be shallow, as they would not be using any sort of intelligent research technique. i think it's better to filter out people like that from the get-go.

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hyperlexian
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10 Dec 2010, 4:20 pm

it's worth noting that if you search "asperger syndrome dating" in google, there are mostly positive results that come up (perhaps entirely positive) on the first page. it appears that a person would have to already be looking for the negative possibilities to even find a forum like the one Jono posted.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=asperger+ ... =firefox-a

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Jono
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10 Dec 2010, 4:23 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

Jono wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

Jono wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

i don't know, because you haven't really explained it on your profile, so i'm not sure what you are asking.

Maybe not explicitly, but on my profile, I did say that I had a "small circle of friends", meaning that I have and don't make many friends (sort of an aspie trait but I was advised that it sounded better than saying I had very few friends). I also said that "I mostly prefer to spend time alone than to go out with friends" (not only because socialising can get tiring for me, but also because the noise and lights bother me if I have to go to those kind of places - both this kind of asocial behaviour and sensory issues are Asperger traits). That was also why I tried to attract someone with the profile who I could sit down and have a chat to rather than someone who's very social. I suppose the fact that I said I like discussing specific topics could also be an Asperger symptom because those are my special interests. I can't think of many more behaviours that would affect me in the short term. So I thought that those statements do tend to explain away some of my behaviours due to AS but without me mentioning the word AS. I was saying that I don't know what's wrong with doing that in the profile at first then mentioning the AS later, after I start dating.

"small circle of friends" and "I mostly prefer to spend time alone than to go out with friends" does not indicate AS at all. it doesn't even hint at AS. it hints that you are similar to approximately 50% of the population. it would not really prepare an individual for dating a person who has AS.

it is your manner on your profile that comes across as "different": formal, unenthusiastic, very overtly "normal".

What do you propose I write there then? I've already explained may times why I do not want to specifically put AS in my profile. And once again: HAVE YOU FOLLOWED THAT LINK I POSTED EARLIER ON IN THE THREAD?! !!

why are you yelling? of course i did (otherwise why would i have mentioned it?), but at the end of the link was a bunch of angry people. you can find those everywhere on the internet. search for cat haters and dog haters and you will find the same drivel. they are not to be taken seriously, and any potential date who who does take that kind of forum seriously is not worth dating (i.e. shallow).

i propose that you write that you have AS. take it or leave it, but there is no reason to shout.

Sorry, I didn't notice you mentioned it earlier. Hyperlexian, those are not just a bunch of angry people on the internet, they are part of a network of anti-Asperger hate-groups who provide "support" for a fake disorder called CADD (Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder), which is apparently caused by living with an AS spouse, and was coined by Maxine Aston. About a year ago, there was an ASAN campaign against a group in Massachusetts, called FAAAS, who not only promoted this insulting Cassandra disorder, they even had one particular lawyer on their side who wanted to push for outright discrimination against aspies in family law. Since Maxine Aston is considered an "expert" in relationships where one partner has Asperger's, people are more likely to believe people in those groups when they come across them. Sorry for shouting but I made a thread about asking if I should reveal AS in my profile in February already because my mom also seems to of thought it was dishonest not to mention AS, but most of the responses to that thread said that not mentioning it was appropriate. BTW a mod removed my initial post to that thread because I was so angry about stuff I read in that Delphi forum that I made personal verbal attacks against "CADD sufferers" and even swore in my original post:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt117185.html

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10 Dec 2010, 4:39 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

Try searching "asperger syndrome relationships". The very first result is the home page of the Irish group ASPIRES. On the very first page of that website, there is a link to one of the articles by Maxine Aston. There may be more positive hits now but if you made the same google search only a few years ago, you would of had CADD popping up as your first hits and with all the negative things that go with it. I know this because that's how I found out about FAAAS and those other groups to begin with. ASPIRES was also a lot more negative than it is now.

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10 Dec 2010, 4:42 pm

big shock, people on the internet have bad things to say about stuff they're ignorant about.

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10 Dec 2010, 4:45 pm

Jono wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

reading that link made me sick to my stomach

ci
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10 Dec 2010, 4:46 pm

A hate against a label leading toward the hate of an individual is just pathological by it's very premise. An interesting study but I am not in tune with the factors to really comment. I'd suggest not taking it to seriously. Most people are very subjective and even if they bother coming to know of the discourse will see reality if it is present to them of an individual in their lives in more positive ways. It is likely parents of individuals with autism will not embrace the prejudices and mellow drama's of the applicable estranged group whom has created another label for experiencing a person with autism. Mainstream would never politically accept it and I will be very clear and precise in saying don't invest to much mental energy into it. It's a PR misfit of a situation.

hyperlexian
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10 Dec 2010, 4:47 pm

Jono wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

i tried that search as well, and ASPIRE came up as the third result (maybe a regional difference). at the very bottom of the list of links is the article, which deals with AS parenting, not romantic relationships.

there is a lot of positive information on that page, and the google search results are overwhelmingly positive towards relationships with people on the spectrum.

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Jono
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10 Dec 2010, 4:59 pm

Ok, here's a better one: google "aspergers relationships problems". There are already references to Cassandra syndrome in the results on the first page of google hits. One hit goes directly to the FAAAS website, an article written by Maxine Aston no less:

http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=cassandra+syndrome+aspergers&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=aspergers+relationships+problems&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=9111c1d610a8252

ASPIRES is only more positive now because AS people in Ireland campaigned a few years to get them to change their act. It once had a page on AS and relationships which ended in "we recommend divorce". Here's a link to Maxine Aston's web site:

http://www.maxineaston.co.uk/cassandra/

Last edited by Jono on 10 Dec 2010, 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hyperlexian
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10 Dec 2010, 5:05 pm

but... i don't think most people would search out the potential problems like that, unless they are already looking for problems at the outset. and that is not a formula for success.

you can also search "ADHD relationship problems" or "online relationship problems" even just "relationship problems" and get quite an interesting education as well. but it is not reasonable to expect that an average person would dig so deeply for problems like that. and if they did, then i don't really understand why that person would be an appropriate relationship candidate.

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ToadOfSteel
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10 Dec 2010, 5:20 pm

HopeGrows wrote:

ToadOfSteel wrote:

What if those are our only choices? The average woman out there isn't going to "give me a chance"... I'm just going to get rejected right off the bat. And I'm still not completely convinced that being used is worse than a long string of rejections. Mainly because if I get rejected, I see it as a statement that I'm unworthy to be on this planet...

@Toad, being used is not better than being alone. Heartbreak is only more profound when you realize you've been played by the person who did the breaking.

To be clear, I'm referring to "casting a wide net" as a bad strategy when a lie is used as bait. Maybe the "average" woman wouldn't give you a chance - maybe. But a woman who is not shallow, who values character, honesty, integrity, and who is willing to compromise and adapt and interpret (on occasion) - that's the kind of woman who will be the best match for you. You won't attract that kind of woman with lies.

Theyre not attracted to me anyway, so what's the point?

Jono
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10 Dec 2010, 5:38 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

Fair enough but this person has also written books about how bad aspies are in relationships. I'll post again later.

EDIT: Perhaps googling problems was not a good example. If you do a google search with "asperger syndrome" and "NT Spouse" as exact phrases together with relationships, you get references to Cassandra syndrome on the first page of google hits, specifically that FAAAS book of insulting poetry about partners with AS as the fourth hit. That search doesn't have anything negative in the search terms:

http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=asperger+syndrome&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=%22asperger+syndrome%22+relationships+%22NT+spouse%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=%22asperger+syndrome%22+relationships+%22NT+spouse%22&gs_rfai=&fp=9111c1d610a8252

techstepgenr8tion
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10 Dec 2010, 6:15 pm

Sallamandrina wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

i believe this argument has deteriorated to Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Quote:

It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[3][2] In other words, Godwin put forth the sarcastic observation that, given enough time, all discussions—regardless of topic or scope—inevitably end up being about Hitler and the Nazis.

seriously folks, if your best argument is that we are deteriorating to the ways of Nazi Germany, then perhaps this argument has run its course.

My apologies, Hope - the discussion started to degenerate somewhat.

Godwin's law aside I think we finally clarified the question; ie. AS should not need to be mentioned in 'all' cases. I would have loved to have gotten that out of someone a few posts before that, for whatever reason it just didn't happen.

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10 Dec 2010, 6:35 pm

Enough about this nonsense. What about HopeGrows' idea about starting a sticky thread talking about listing positive advice and information about how AS affects ourselves as individuals in relationships?

Good night guys.

ci
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10 Dec 2010, 10:18 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds_9Df6dK7c[/youtube]

Honestly.

Other then concept based analytics and theoretical babble most of the time I am not aware of what my differences are. I like to exclude my personal bias and be a pure computation otherwise it's bias, yet this is nearly unavoidable. So to be positive I would have to be more self-aware and know the interpersonal dynamics of what is considered normal. Fundamentally as a person with HFA which technically differs from A.S I perceive myself not that different from everyone else aside from single mindedness, forgetfulness of whatever I am not focusing on and don't partake in offline socialization as much as others aside from interest based things so I do not have friendships riddled with small talk and simply don't care to unless fart jokes.

Now the idea is just like everyone else I will achieve a relationship that is compatible with how I am but at the same time enhance my interpersonal relationship skills in a healthy way thus making the person happy as well as myself because humans like the sex and bonding. I am not sure of what is positive or negative of me at this time nor what on average is positive or negative in relationships for those with A.S and other ASD's. However a female partner may enhance my entire personality. Why do people need to focus on either negative or positive? If I was to say something is positive or negative I must then have an emotional need for it. Simply I don't care nor care much about the label with concern to myself. I experience near total positivity all the time and near total gratifying focus.

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11 Dec 2010, 2:25 pm

ci wrote:

Yes, I wouldn't quite know either. I was quite tired when I wrote that last post so maybe I wasn't too clear. I didn't mean to suggest that we list what traits of ASD's are positive and negative for relationships, I think what I'm saying is that we should start a thread where people with ASD's who have some experience in successful long-term relationships to talk about their experiences. Maybe NT partners of ASD people should tell about their experiences as well.

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