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Barack Obama: Neocon?

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Orwell
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24 Mar 2011, 8:39 pm

georgewbush wrote:
Obama's not a neocon. Trust me, I know. I am one.

Neoconservatism refers to the aggressive, interventionist foreign policy pushed by some elements of the political right since about 2000, exemplified in the Bush administration policies of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. In virtually all foreign policy matters, Obama has either continued or even expanded on Bush's policies; nowhere have we seen a reversal or change of policy in our international stance since the change of administration. If it looks like a neocon, walks like a neocon, and detains and tortures people without a trial, call it a neocon.


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25 Mar 2011, 12:29 am

marshall wrote:
georgewbush wrote:
Obama's not a neocon. Trust me, I know. I am one.

The biggest difference is Obama is smart enough not to make an ass of himself internationally by acting like some wild-west gung-ho sheriff that goes off tilting at windmills. It looks like he has silently endorsed torture, even of non-combatants, and legally pushed domestic spying to an even more unprecedented/unconstitutional level. At least those items should make you happy.


Least Bush got congressional approval before going into Iraq. Obama got everyone's approval but Congress, and that is after the President of France put his foot down.



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25 Mar 2011, 1:00 am

I've lost count of how many bonehead things Obama has done just this year alone. He has sold out both socialist and neocon group's agendas, so now I just call him a f^ing idiot.


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25 Mar 2011, 1:07 am

Don't obsess much about the right-left dichotomy. There is essentially no difference between neoconservatism and the whatever you call the democrats in this country. The roots of neoconservatism were actually based on the radical left. The "godfather of neoconservatism" Irving Kristol was Trotskyite in his youth and later famously remarked that a neoconservative was a liberal who got mugged by reality.

So I don't think it would be inaccurate to call Obama a neocon, it's an effective pejorative. Ruveyn is correct in calling him statist.



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25 Mar 2011, 3:11 am

Jacoby wrote:
Don't obsess much about the right-left dichotomy. There is essentially no difference between neoconservatism and the whatever you call the democrats in this country. The roots of neoconservatism were actually based on the radical left. The "godfather of neoconservatism" Irving Kristol was Trotskyite in his youth and later famously remarked that a neoconservative was a liberal who got mugged by reality.

.


Bingo! The Neocons are reformed leftists "who have seen the Light". Some of them used to be blood-red commies.

ruveyn



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25 Mar 2011, 10:48 am

Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
georgewbush wrote:
Obama's not a neocon. Trust me, I know. I am one.

The biggest difference is Obama is smart enough not to make an ass of himself internationally by acting like some wild-west gung-ho sheriff that goes off tilting at windmills. It looks like he has silently endorsed torture, even of non-combatants, and legally pushed domestic spying to an even more unprecedented/unconstitutional level. At least those items should make you happy.


Least Bush got congressional approval before going into Iraq. Obama got everyone's approval but Congress, and that is after the President of France put his foot down.

Durrrr. Why don't you research all the times your holy rethuglican hero Ray-guns secretly and illegally involved himself in conflicts without anyone's approval. And why do reich-wingers always refer to having allied support as if it were a bad thing? Is it because they're dickfaced jingoistic as*holes?



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25 Mar 2011, 12:47 pm

marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
georgewbush wrote:
Obama's not a neocon. Trust me, I know. I am one.

The biggest difference is Obama is smart enough not to make an ass of himself internationally by acting like some wild-west gung-ho sheriff that goes off tilting at windmills. It looks like he has silently endorsed torture, even of non-combatants, and legally pushed domestic spying to an even more unprecedented/unconstitutional level. At least those items should make you happy.


Least Bush got congressional approval before going into Iraq. Obama got everyone's approval but Congress, and that is after the President of France put his foot down.

Durrrr. Why don't you research all the times your holy rethuglican hero Ray-guns secretly and illegally involved himself in conflicts without anyone's approval. And why do reich-wingers always refer to having allied support as if it were a bad thing? Is it because they're dickfaced jingoistic as*holes?


:roll:

The really funny thing is that Biden and Obama should expect to get impeached based on their own words. :lol:



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25 Mar 2011, 1:06 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
georgewbush wrote:
Obama's not a neocon. Trust me, I know. I am one.

The biggest difference is Obama is smart enough not to make an ass of himself internationally by acting like some wild-west gung-ho sheriff that goes off tilting at windmills. It looks like he has silently endorsed torture, even of non-combatants, and legally pushed domestic spying to an even more unprecedented/unconstitutional level. At least those items should make you happy.


Least Bush got congressional approval before going into Iraq. Obama got everyone's approval but Congress, and that is after the President of France put his foot down.

Durrrr. Why don't you research all the times your holy rethuglican hero Ray-guns secretly and illegally involved himself in conflicts without anyone's approval. And why do reich-wingers always refer to having allied support as if it were a bad thing? Is it because they're dickfaced jingoistic as*holes?


:roll:

The really funny thing is that Biden and Obama should expect to get impeached based on their own words. :lol:


ORLY? :roll:

Why do right-wing jingoists hate the rest of the world? Why do they want America to act like a big fat two year old that must always get it's own way and refuse to work with anyone else?



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25 Mar 2011, 1:08 pm

Is misusing the term jingoist your new thing marshal?



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25 Mar 2011, 2:12 pm

@Ickorack: his attribution of jingoism to the right wing is accurate.

Inuyasha wrote:
The really funny thing is that Biden and Obama should expect to get impeached based on their own words. :lol:

Yep. And a couple of Democrats have followed through to attempt to bring impeachment against Obama. Would any Republican (aside from Ron Paul) act against their Dear Leader when he did something illegal?


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25 Mar 2011, 2:20 pm

Orwell wrote:
@Ickorack: his attribution of jingoism to the right wing is accurate.


Maybe but that is not what I take issue with, his words seem to imply he is addressing inuyasha directly that would be, I am taking issue with his describing of inuyasha as a jingoist, he most certainly could not be argued as a patriot or patriotic, and I haven't even heard his stance on foreign policy(I suspect this is my own fault).

Being fervently right wing is not the same as being patriotic which is essentially what I am disagreeing with.

It is fairly safe to say that if the right wing lost all political power in the united states that inuyasha would question the federal governments validity as a government.

Patriotism isn't really healthy practice for Americans anyways.



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25 Mar 2011, 2:43 pm

ikorack wrote:
Maybe but that is not what I take issue with, his words seem to imply he is addressing inuyasha directly that would be, I am taking issue with his describing of inuyasha as a jingoist, he most certainly could not be argued as a patriot or patriotic, and I haven't even heard his stance on foreign policy(I suspect this is my own fault).

Inuyasha strikes me as pretty jingoistic. He probably was much more so during the Bush administration.

Quote:
Being fervently right wing is not the same as being patriotic which is essentially what I am disagreeing with.

No, they are not synonyms, but the right wing has wrapped themselves in the flag quite a bit.

Quote:
It is fairly safe to say that if the right wing lost all political power in the united states that inuyasha would question the federal governments validity as a government.

Probably not, but I would be willing to bet he would still hold to some ideal of a "real America" run by right-wingers like himself.

Quote:
Patriotism isn't really healthy practice for Americans anyways.

Agreed.


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25 Mar 2011, 3:16 pm

ikorack wrote:
Orwell wrote:
@Ickorack: his attribution of jingoism to the right wing is accurate.


Maybe but that is not what I take issue with, his words seem to imply he is addressing inuyasha directly that would be, I am taking issue with his describing of inuyasha as a jingoist, he most certainly could not be argued as a patriot or patriotic, and I haven't even heard his stance on foreign policy(I suspect this is my own fault).

Being fervently right wing is not the same as being patriotic which is essentially what I am disagreeing with.

It is fairly safe to say that if the right wing lost all political power in the united states that inuyasha would question the federal governments validity as a government.

Patriotism isn't really healthy practice for Americans anyways.

I wasn't singling out Inuyasha for jingoism. My ire is more at the right-wing talking heads that he listens to and repeats. The paranoid anti-UN, anti-multilateralism crap I am starting to hear again on Fox News is certainly the same old neocon jingoism we heard 24/7 during the Bush administration. It seems right-wingers haven't figured out that the majority of the American people have joined the rest of the world and are tired of hearing that crap.



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25 Mar 2011, 3:22 pm

What do you mean by the majority of America has joined the rest of the world?



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25 Mar 2011, 3:39 pm

marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
georgewbush wrote:
Obama's not a neocon. Trust me, I know. I am one.

The biggest difference is Obama is smart enough not to make an ass of himself internationally by acting like some wild-west gung-ho sheriff that goes off tilting at windmills. It looks like he has silently endorsed torture, even of non-combatants, and legally pushed domestic spying to an even more unprecedented/unconstitutional level. At least those items should make you happy.


Least Bush got congressional approval before going into Iraq. Obama got everyone's approval but Congress, and that is after the President of France put his foot down.

Durrrr. Why don't you research all the times your holy rethuglican hero Ray-guns secretly and illegally involved himself in conflicts without anyone's approval. And why do reich-wingers always refer to having allied support as if it were a bad thing? Is it because they're dickfaced jingoistic as*holes?


:roll:

The really funny thing is that Biden and Obama should expect to get impeached based on their own words. :lol:


ORLY? :roll:

Why do right-wing jingoists hate the rest of the world? Why do they want America to act like a big fat two year old that must always get it's own way and refuse to work with anyone else?


Congratulations for looking like an idiot.

Obama:
President Obama told the Boston Globe's Charlie Savage in a 2007 interview regarding Iranian nuclear plants that, "The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/wat ... essional-/

Joe Biden:
PORTSMOUTH — Presidential hopeful Delaware Sen. Joe Biden stated unequivocally that he will move to impeach President Bush if he bombs Iran without first gaining congressional approval.

Biden spoke in front of a crowd of approximately 100 at a candidate forum held Thursday at Seacoast Media Group. The forum focused on the Iraq war and foreign policy. When an audience member expressed fear of a war with Iran, Biden said he does not typically engage in threats, but had no qualms about issuing a direct warning to the Oval Office.

"The president has no authority to unilaterally attack Iran, and if he does, as Foreign Relations Committee chairman, I will move to impeach," said Biden, whose words were followed by a raucous applause from the local audience.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs ... S/71129018
@ Orwell & marshall
Now, are you going to admit that I actually have a valid point, or are you going to continue to engage in juvenile name calling.



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25 Mar 2011, 4:10 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
@ Orwell

You didn't actually read my post at all, did you? Go ahead, try again. It's still up there. I'll wait.


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