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Abgal64
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22 Sep 2011, 3:08 pm

Alright, I am a big history buff and these are the most annoying misconceptions about history to me. Here they are, in no particular order:

"Gutenberg made the first Printed Book": Not true: The Diamond Sutra of 868 CE, printed during the T'ang Dynasty of China, was the world's first printed book. http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/sacredte ... sutra.html . Even movable type printing was invented centuries earlier in China than in Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi_Sheng .

"Nicholas Copernicus was the first to come up with the Heliocentric Model of the Solar System": Not True: Many Greek, Islamic and Indian scholars developed heliocentricism long before Copernicus did.

"The Scientfic Method was first used during the Scientific Revolution": Not True: Ibn Al-Haytham came up with the scientific method centuries before the European Scientific Revolution: http://web.archive.org/web/200602110324 ... azen.shtml .

"The Alphabet comes from the Phoenecians": Not True: It actually comes from the Ancient Egyptians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_h ... eral_signs .

I would love to hear other people who have pet peeves about ignorance on historical matters and what they are.



ruveyn
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22 Sep 2011, 4:21 pm

Abgal64 wrote:

"Nicholas Copernicus was the first to come up with the Heliocentric Model of the Solar System": Not True: Many Greek, Islamic and Indian scholars developed heliocentricism long before Copernicus did.



In particular, the Greek, Aristarchus. Copernicus acknowledge the precedence of Aristarchus in the first printing of his book on the heliocentric model.

Aristarchus, or more correctly Aristarchos (Greek: Ἀρίσταρχος, Arístarchos; 310 BC – ca. 230 BC), was a Greek astronomer and mathematician, born on the island of Samos, in Greece. He presented the first known heliocentric model of the solar system, placing the Sun, not the Earth, at the center of the known universe. He was influenced by the Pythagorean Philolaus of Croton, but, in contrast to Philolaus, he identified the "central fire" with the Sun, and put the other planets in their correct order of distance around the Sun. (from the Wiki article on Aristarchos). The Pythagoreans do not quite get full credit since there is no "central fire" (other than the sun, itself).

Heliocentrism was not established factually until Galileo actually observed the phases of Venus through a telescope.

ruveyn



phil777
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22 Sep 2011, 6:04 pm

Well, you know what they say... History serves whoever writes it... =/



Sweetleaf
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22 Sep 2011, 7:43 pm

Well one I have seen more than once is people insisting the U.S pretty much single handedly won WW2 and saved the entire freaking world......when in reality I am pretty sure that war was being fought quite a while before the U.S entered. History is history so its not like something I am that bothered by but it is annoying to get into that debate.



EmiliaL
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22 Sep 2011, 8:50 pm

My favorite is still the perennial "Columbus discovered America."

Yeah, right. And some of my ancestors were already here to greet him.

Oh, they would've been, except for the part where my ancestors were on the mainland and Columbus never was.



EmiliaL
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22 Sep 2011, 8:54 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well one I have seen more than once is people insisting the U.S pretty much single handedly won WW2 and saved the entire freaking world......when in reality I am pretty sure that war was being fought quite a while before the U.S entered. History is history so its not like something I am that bothered by but it is annoying to get into that debate.


Hm, whether the Allies would've succeeded unless Roosevelt got Lend Lease through our Congress is something that might be worthy of debate.

But single-handed? Uh...hardly.

Actually if you look at how Americans have fared in the 2 World Wars, you continually find them barging in repeating the same tired mistakes that the European generals have already made...and fixed. But you know, we're all *Americans* so obviously if we use ret*d tactics we'll be able to make it work just fine!

WW1 was particularly rife with examples. Lots of guys died for nothing, just because we don't learn from the mistakes of other countries.

Churchill had it right when he said you can always count on the Americans to do the right thing -- once we have tried everything else.



phil777
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22 Sep 2011, 9:04 pm

The American way of military intervention in the two WWs is like the cavalry's: They always come late! (But better late than ever!)



Abgal64
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22 Sep 2011, 9:05 pm

EmiliaL wrote:
My favorite is still the perennial "Columbus discovered America."

Yeah, right. And some of my ancestors were already here to greet him.

Oh, they would've been, except for the part where my ancestors were on the mainland and Columbus never was.
All Columbus did was establish contact between the Old and New Worlds that turned into perhaps the largest genocide in human history, if not a single event.



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22 Sep 2011, 9:06 pm

The USSR bore the brunt of the fighting in Europe. Even after D-Day most of the Wehrmacht and SS divisions were stationed on the Eastern Front. Though the US did distinguish themselves in every theater they fought in


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EmiliaL
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22 Sep 2011, 9:12 pm

Abgal64 wrote:
]All Columbus did was establish contact between the Old and New Worlds that turned into perhaps the largest genocide in human history, if not a single event.


He wasn't even the first European to do that. The Scandinavians were there first.

The most one can say is Columbus' voyages led to a permanent contact between Old and New Worlds. The Scandinavian contact was not a lasting one.

That inflated version of Columbus' accomplishments did provide a bit of a emotional support for the Italian immigrant community, which had been mistreated for the crime of being from southern Europe and being Catholic. (God forbid!)

That's why we even have a Columbus Day, though it's little more now than excuse for a bank holiday.

At least for St. Paddy's you have an excuse to drink discolored beer and eat bangers and mash or corned beef and cabbage, even if you don't get the day off.



phil777
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22 Sep 2011, 9:15 pm

The USSR, as i've understood it, was a "meat shield" against Germany's forces, to be sure. They''ve had the highest casualties, if memory serves.

Regarding Columbus, I need a refresher, but wasn't even Jacques Cartier there first? =/ If we're talking explorers, might as well get our dates...



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22 Sep 2011, 11:37 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well one I have seen more than once is people insisting the U.S pretty much single handedly won WW2 and saved the entire freaking world......when in reality I am pretty sure that war was being fought quite a while before the U.S entered. History is history so its not like something I am that bothered by but it is annoying to get into that debate.

The allies in Europe, Africa, and the Pacific were either in a stalemate or losing when the US entered the war. If we hadn't been selling them war materials since before the war started, we would have started the war from airbases in Greenland, Iceland, and the Azores, and we wouldn't have a suitable land base in the Pacific to launch army aircraft from We would have needed to start the African campaign from south of the Sahara, the middle east would have fallen (Germany would then have all the oil they need) and India would have been cut off.

phil777 wrote:
The USSR, as i've understood it, was a "meat shield" against Germany's forces, to be sure. They''ve had the highest casualties, if memory serves.

Rusia historically has absurdly high casualties in any military operation, and WWII was worse because Stalin killed every general competent enough to possibly stage a coup several years earlier.


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riley
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23 Sep 2011, 12:16 am

That women have been recorded by history as being mere bystanders.



Abgal64
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23 Sep 2011, 1:21 am

riley wrote:
That women have been recorded by history as being mere bystanders.
+1.



Urthred
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23 Sep 2011, 1:44 am

That Aliens built the pyramids.


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Hikikamori
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23 Sep 2011, 1:53 am

I hate that we celebrate a day that honors columbus.

Anyways...That the civil war was cus we wanted to free people from slavery.