Ohio, Chardon High School shooting, 3 dead.

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eigerpere
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29 Feb 2012, 7:35 am

And why should human life be passionately valued?



kojot
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29 Feb 2012, 7:37 am

eigerpere wrote:
And why should human life be passionately valued?

Shouldn't all life be valued?



eigerpere
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29 Feb 2012, 7:41 am

kojot wrote:
eigerpere wrote:
And why should human life be passionately valued?

Shouldn't all life be valued?


Should? What does should have to do with it.



eigerpere
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29 Feb 2012, 7:44 am

I don't care very much about human beings at this point. I have become cynical.



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29 Feb 2012, 7:46 am

As this is essentially a duplicate of the earlier thread "School shooting in Charin, Ohio" on the same topic, I've merged that thread's posts into this one and removed the earlier thread.


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Keyman
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29 Feb 2012, 8:21 am

I don't think people defend the shooter. One has to put things in context. Beat up people and they will return the favor, sometimes without proportion.



heavenlyabyss
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29 Feb 2012, 8:32 am

Keyman wrote:
I don't think people defend the shooter. One has to put things in context. Beat up people and they will return the favor, sometimes without proportion.


I think people are getting the wrong impression (as I did at first) that bullying was a key factor in the shooting. From one article I read, it appears to be that bullying was not a major factor.



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29 Feb 2012, 10:40 am

shartora wrote:
Does the US recognise temporary insanity as a plea, because it sounds like that's what it was?

So 3rd bully dies? One less a***hole to waste oxygen. Hope he doesn't waste too many years locked up.


Well I don't know enough about this to say for sure what I think specifically of this one.......but temporary or non-temporary insanity could be used, then maybe he would get psychological help rather then prison. But knowing the U.S that is not necessarily a better option and does not guarantee effective therapy of any sort.


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29 Feb 2012, 10:52 am

This is what happens when death is considered the only option to one's problems - some take it out on themselves, some take it out on others, and some do both. It's sad ... very sad ... but it's a result of people's obsession with death and dying at the expense of life and living.



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29 Feb 2012, 11:02 am

When there's no other viable option known for the perpetrator. Then violence may occur.



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29 Feb 2012, 12:03 pm

kojot wrote:
Looks like it. Violence is overrated, but glorified in the US. So what do you expect?


Where are you from?


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ghostar
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29 Feb 2012, 12:14 pm

ProfumoAffair wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
ProfumoAffair wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
shartora wrote:
Probably repeating what's been said lots of times, but it's the price a nation pays for allowing guns to be available generally.

List of countries sorted by gun-related deaths shows the difference in a big way.

To use US and UK as an illustration

US 4.14/100,000 people killed by someone else
UK 0.41/100,000

So you are 10 times more likely to be murdered with a gun in the US as in the UK. Says a lot for strict gun control.


I don't think banning guns would really reduce violent crimes committed with guns...it would just prevent law abiding citizens from purchasing guns but I think violent criminals could find a way around that and still acquire guns to kill people with, but citizens would be left without the option to purchase a gun they could potentially defend them self with if need be. Also, gun free zones to me are just asking for people with mass killing on their mind to go for it.

Also this seems very recent so until there is more information and I can read up on suspected motives, if it actually was a student ect. before I form on opinion on what might have prevented this.

Banning guns means only the outlaws have guns. Not banning guns means there are a lot more outlaws. I guess people just stick wax in their ears when they ignore the murder rate in the USA and its relation to guns.


I don't know...last I checked guns don't make people turn into outlaws. I mean I highly doubt if I was to go out and buy a gun it would make me into a more violent person. I've even shot targets with a gun when I was out with some family like a year ago and it did not give me any violent urges. That said I admit I've broken a law here and there but nothing violent that would hurt people.

Also I don't think I have stuck any wax in my ears, I just think banning guns would pretty much ensure a law abiding citizen when faced with a violent criminal with a gun breaking into their house for instance will get shot. Guns can be used appropriately so they should not be taken from people who use them appropriately that just punishes the ones who do follow the gun rules. I do not think banning guns would reduce the frequency of violent crime. But that is just my opinion based on what I've seen, experianced, information I've looked up ect.
Just your opinion doesn't mean that guns give people power, and power corrupts. Soon as you give a man a gun, you have a problem.


I own several guns and have been quite enraged but have never considered using my guns in any manner other than self-defense. I am not a man though so perhaps I am exempt from the slippery power slope that is directly related to gun posession? :P



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29 Feb 2012, 12:29 pm

Sometimes truth really is stranger than fiction. This kid may be proof that, yes, the popular, over achieving, well liked and admired, intelligent, handsome member of the student body is quite capable of planning and executing a crime of this nature. He is not sick. His behavior should not be excused just because he was 'good' before.

But, since these facts might mean anyone is capable of this, not just the dark, maladjusted types or the loners or the lonely victims of bullies, these facts could very well be swept under the carpet. The truth about the inner monster is just too threatening, dangerous and damaging to the mainstream which seems to require a phantom boogeyman in order to feel safe from their own turbulent psyches.



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29 Feb 2012, 12:33 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes truth really is stranger than fiction. This kid may be proof that, yes, the popular, over achieving, well liked and admired, intelligent, handsome member of the student body is quite capable of planning and executing a crime of this nature. He is not sick. His behavior should not be excused just because he was 'good' before.

But, since these facts might mean anyone is capable of this, not just the dark, maladjusted types or the loners or the lonely victims of bullies, these facts could very well be swept under the carpet. The truth about the inner monster is just too threatening, dangerous and damaging to the mainstream which seems to require a phantom boogeyman in order to feel safe from their own turbulent psyches.


This is a very insightful post in my opinion. Perhaps those that are unwilling to accept that they have a dark side are the ones in the most danger of having it take them over?



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29 Feb 2012, 1:00 pm

Feralucce wrote:
Did anyone notice on the graph that one of the highest homicide rates was in the UK (Scotland) and simultaneously one of the lowest incidents of households with guns?

This seems, at it's core, to disprove the guns make people violent argument.

I honestly think that, in the absence of guns, the people who are going to commit murder, will do so anyway. I live in one of the most violent areas of the world outside of south africa...I live in the 9th ward of New Orleans. I have seen a man murdered, several attempted murders and many violent crimes. Ironically enough... only twice in my life have I seen crime involving guns... one of these was in the UK and one was a "Crooked cop"

Knives, pool cues, a hammer, a car and brass knuckles... but not guns...

Arguably, guns increase the deadliness of any confrontation and crime, but the people that are going to perform these kinds of crimes are going to do it anyway.


Anything can be a weapon to someone who wants to kill. I read in the paper where a child killed another child with a leg of a barbie doll.
Ban all Barbie doll legs...sorry kids, barbie has to be amputee!

Jojo


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29 Feb 2012, 1:07 pm

jojo: agreed...

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol ... r-hit.html in this article, a scottish man who had TWO guns with him, cut off a man's genitals and then used a drill on the man's skull...

kind of puts things in perspective


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