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Did you vote libertarian?
Yes, I did 18%  18%  [ 6 ]
Yes, I did 18%  18%  [ 6 ]
No 21%  21%  [ 7 ]
No 21%  21%  [ 7 ]
what is a libertarian? 12%  12%  [ 4 ]
what is a libertarian? 12%  12%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 34

Bec
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02 Mar 2005, 7:17 pm

axelkat wrote:
Ive noticed a lot of aspies are quite liberal.


I've noticed that too. I wonder why that is?



cornince
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02 Mar 2005, 9:11 pm

CatGuy,


Quote:
That all drugs, even harmful ones with no medical value, should be legalized?


Yes. It is up to each person what to do with his own body.

Quote:
That all taxes should be repealed?


I've heard some argue user's fees. I'm undecided, but I do know that taxes can be much lower.

Quote:
That foreign aid should be entirely voluntary?


Yes. Foreign aid for the most part helps prop up corrupt governments.

Quote:
That Welfare should be eliminated?


Except in probably the most extreme cases. People should mostly depend on their families for this kind of thing.

Quote:
That Public Education should be eliminated?


Yes. That system is a mess. Compulsory education I think is rather pointless. Not everybody should be made to graduate high school.

Quote:
That "Hate Crime" laws should be eliminated?


It is no worse or better to murder someone because of his race than it is to murder someone for insurance money.

Quote:
That Social Security should be completely privatized?


How about eliminated? The system is a mess and this "privatization" scheme proposed by the Republicans is little more than a compulsory, government mutual fund. Plus, Social Security will still remain even with this "privatization." It's wrong to force people to give their money into a pyramid scheme hoping to get something out of it when they retire.

Quote:
That the US should withdraw from the UN?


Hell yeah! We pay more fees to it than any other country and they still don't say it is enough. They try to send us on all sorts of little expeditions around the world. Once, I heard that they appointed Libya to the Human Rights Commission.



Psychlone
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03 Mar 2005, 3:37 am

CatGuy wrote:
That all drugs, even harmful ones with no medical value, should be legalized?


http://wings.buffalo.edu/aru/preprohibition.htm

Check out this site to see what life was like before drug prohibition. All drugs should be legalized, even harmful drugs, because if they remain illegal it leads to organized crime and terrorism as well as overcrowded prison populations. Libertarians understand that once you legalize recreational drugs and have companies like Bayer selling them in safe measured doses that organized crime dwindles. Look what happened when alcohol prohibition was around and when it ended crime dropped.... and continued to drop until the enforcement of drug prohibition in the 60s when crime started to rise again.

CatGuy wrote:
That all taxes should be repealed?


Some Libertarians think all taxes should be abolished, others support just a limiting of taxes. I personally favor abolishing the income tax and having a minimal government funded entirely by revenue tariffs and excise taxes. This is the way it used to be. Most people don't realize that before the 16th amendment was passed in 1913 there was no income tax. There was also very few wars too. Anyone who opposes war in general should oppose the income tax because it gives the government the strength to be a global empire.

CatGuy wrote:
That foreign aid should be entirely voluntary?


Yes. Most government aid goes to dictatorships like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and is used to prop up these evil regimes.

CatGuy wrote:
That Welfare should be eliminated?


Charity should be completely voluntary. I believe more can be accomplished by organizations like the red cross and habitat for humanity than by the government.

CatGuy wrote:
That Public Education should be eliminated?


Private schools are superior in quality and cost effectiveness than public schools. Public schools are crumbling and failing and there is no competition incentive for public schools to be cost effective so money that is thrown at the problem gets wasted.

CatGuy wrote:
That "Hate Crime" laws should be eliminated?


Hate crimes are unnecessary because murder and other acts of violence are covered by existing legislation.

CatGuy wrote:
That Social Security should be completely privatized?


Social security as run by the government is failing and it impoverishes people. You never get back what you pay into it, even if you live to be 100.

CatGuy wrote:
That the US should withdraw from the UN?


I don't really care either way on this one.



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03 Mar 2005, 1:47 pm

JayShaw wrote:
I didn't vote, either. The chances of a single vote influencing the outcome of a presidential election are essentially zero, so you trade your time for nothing (except possibly principle) if you vote.

50% of Americans are disinclined to vote for this very reason.

Don't you see that this is a bit of a defeatist attitude? I am not pointing fingers here, cause I had the same problem not long ago, but we have all got to kick this helpless feeling in the butt.

If we are to get anything done, we must do it en masse, so let's get off our hinies and spread the word, and most importantly, we must take action ourselves!

I mean it. We can make a difference.

8)

AND YES: It is a matter of principle! :wink:



axelkat
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03 Mar 2005, 1:50 pm

err... this nation seems to lean to the right, thats why bastar*s like bush end up in the white house
A


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JayShaw
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03 Mar 2005, 7:45 pm

Quote:
Don't you see that this is a bit of a defeatist attitude?


It is a realistic attitude. It is also economically rational. Your attitude may be rational as well, as you probably derive some pleasure from adhering to your principles. Since I dislike our system of government, my principles largely differ from yours and I would not receive a similar benefit from voting.



1PeaceMaker
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04 Mar 2005, 1:57 pm

axelkat wrote:
err... this nation seems to lean to the right, thats why bastar*s like bush end up in the white house
A
No, he clearly stole the election. He stole ohio, and he padded his votes in dozens of states, including New Mexico.



1PeaceMaker
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04 Mar 2005, 2:06 pm

JayShaw wrote:
Quote:
Don't you see that this is a bit of a defeatist attitude?


It is a realistic attitude.


How so?

Quote:
It is also economically rational.


Speaking of economics, the Libertarians have saved us billions of tax dollars. What were you thinking of?

Quote:
Your attitude may be rational as well, as you probably derive some pleasure from adhering to your principles.


Maybe I will, when I do. But that is not why I do it. My vote is for my children, as well as for those who can't/don't vote. If I refuse to vote, I refuse to show love to my disinfranchised brother in a tangeable way. My vote will be cast, even if someone illegally throws it in the trash.

Quote:
Since I dislike our system of government, my principles largely differ from yours and I would not receive a similar benefit from voting.
If you don't mind me asking, what action are you taking for establishing a better system, and why can't voting libertarian also serve your purposes?



Psychlone
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04 Mar 2005, 2:45 pm

axelkat wrote:
err... this nation seems to lean to the right, thats why bastar*s like bush end up in the white house
A


Only about 30% of the eligibly voting population voted for Bush. Another 30% or so voted for Kerry, and the other 40% didn't vote at all.



JayShaw
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04 Mar 2005, 5:21 pm

I believe that I've explained myself sufficiently already. I don't particularly feel like entering into a debate over our different views on the subject. It would accomplish no more than attempting to explain the rationality behind agnosticism/atheism to a person who practices a form of organized religion.



1PeaceMaker
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05 Mar 2005, 9:32 am

JayShaw wrote:
I believe that I've explained myself sufficiently already. I don't particularly feel like entering into a debate over our different views on the subject. It would accomplish no more than attempting to explain the rationality behind agnosticism/atheism to a person who practices a form of organized religion.
Sorry, I can tell your interest may be waning, but you aren't dealing with an NT. You know that. :)

I am religious, but I wouldn't tell an athiest to swap out his banner, I would tell him to apply his logic and love consistantly. That is what makes a christian, or agnostic/athiest, or Taoist (or anybody else) saved. And I mean it. That is what the Bible taught me. It's not about what is in your head, but what's in your heart.

Anyway, you can apply that to politics just as easily. If you have something important to share with me/us, use your judgement, but don't hold back, unless you really feel it would be unwise now to share, which is okay, too.

Peace



car_crash
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07 Mar 2005, 7:59 am

american libertarianism is anarcho-capitalism.

i much prefer the libertarian-socialism as put into practice by the catalans in the spanish civil war personally



duncvis
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07 Mar 2005, 10:28 am

That goes for me too car_crash. I consider myself a libertarian socialist, the original meaning of anarchism. :)


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car_crash
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11 Mar 2005, 6:16 pm

duncvis wrote:
That goes for me too car_crash. I consider myself a libertarian socialist, the original meaning of anarchism. :)


you tha man dawg :)



Psychlone
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11 Mar 2005, 9:19 pm

car_crash wrote:
american libertarianism is anarcho-capitalism.

i much prefer the libertarian-socialism as put into practice by the catalans in the spanish civil war personally


Isn't Libertarian-socialism a contradiction? How can you have socialism with minimal government?