James Holmes may have Aspergers?



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angelbear
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02 Aug 2012, 11:14 am

It seems like I remember seeing in one article that he was adopted. Not sure because I only saw it mentioned once.



Mayel
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02 Aug 2012, 1:56 pm

angelbear wrote:
It seems like I remember seeing in one article that he was adopted. Not sure because I only saw it mentioned once.

There are actually a lot of articles that mention this in a passing sentence and say this information was provided by policemen....so,it may be true.

Here's an intresting article about involuntary commitment:
medPage

And this one is just a literary text by a writer called Buscani which is nicely written (and you can also listen to it):
Losing James Holmes


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angelbear
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02 Aug 2012, 5:45 pm

Thank you for the articles. I guess only time will tell what will become of James Holmes. That second article was very well written and I feel it captures the essence of how many with AS must feel at times. I am not excusing James Holmes, but at the same time it is a complete shame that he wasn't able to make it through the tough times and who knows what he could have done.



Doubutsu
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02 Aug 2012, 6:13 pm

I think it was just lack of empathy + boredom. It's sad...



archraphael
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02 Aug 2012, 7:42 pm

i wrote this in another article in more detail. this is the most fascinating murder case i have ever seen, probably because, by the look in his eyes i can tell he CLEARLY had/has psychosis... no if's or but's.. but certainly AND's.! !

in court he looked like he was drugged up on antipsychotics.
he probably has initially a personality disorder like sociopathy or anti-social personality.

ive met people who became schizophrenic who normally have a very borderline or talk-back type personality, and some who are nice and insighful people.

he is either mildly schizophrenic, or very likely developed amphetamine or anti-depressant related psychosis... not uncommon...
i have had psychosis--it is very gradient and fluid like autistm variations---autism was also a defined feature of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia. in my own experience with pychosis i have days where i am completely hallucination/delusion free, to whee i am slightly hearing voices and having delusional ideation, to where i am a ranting raving lunatic with no sense of organization or short term memory... he probably reached a serverly delsuional thinking stage but somehow remained lucid and coordinated enough to buy weapons and carry out murder. when a person is delusional they can fixate on an idea quite well and it is also quite possible to manifest the idea.

but again first and foremost i can see a personality disorder in him. he seems like an actual "joker" type to me. but just look at the blank stare in his eyes in his teenage photos. that is not asperger, that is psychosis ready to attack and hijack his brain.



Mayel
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03 Aug 2012, 2:50 am

archraphael wrote:
in court he looked like he was drugged up on antipsychotics.
he probably has initially a personality disorder like sociopathy or anti-social personality.

ive met people who became schizophrenic who normally have a very borderline or talk-back type personality, and some who are nice and insighful people.

he is either mildly schizophrenic, or very likely developed amphetamine or anti-depressant related psychosis... not uncommon...
i have had psychosis--it is very gradient and fluid like autistm variations---autism was also a defined feature of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia. in my own experience with pychosis i have days where i am completely hallucination/delusion free, to whee i am slightly hearing voices and having delusional ideation, to where i am a ranting raving lunatic with no sense of organization or short term memory... he probably reached a serverly delsuional thinking stage but somehow remained lucid and coordinated enough to buy weapons and carry out murder. when a person is delusional they can fixate on an idea quite well and it is also quite possible to manifest the idea.

but again first and foremost i can see a personality disorder in him. he seems like an actual "joker" type to me. but just look at the blank stare in his eyes in his teenage photos. that is not asperger, that is psychosis ready to attack and hijack his brain.


Where do you see anti-social PD? Anyways, thanks for your insight about psychosis and medication. That's very intresting.

In this article about "spotting threats" I found this passage:
Quote:
Holmes, 24, doesn’t appear to have made many friends during his year in Colorado. He had also applied to the University of Arizona neurology program but was rejected because he had a lack of affect in his interview, showing no excitement or passion about the program he wanted to join, according to people familiar with his application.


Lack of affect.......that's something.

Also, this is a comment on the site about that literary piece "Losing James Holmes":
Quote:
By the way, he was never teased to the point where he got bullied. He was geeky because he was smart, true. Some people made fun of him because of that but he was not an outcast. Everyone gets teased a little in their lifetime. He was introverted. He was smart. He was quiet. BUT he had friends. He would talk to people. He was athletic. He wouldn't date not because no one wanted to be with him but because HE showed no interest in dating. There were a ton of geeks at his high school because it was a school that really focused on academics. A little teasing is no excuse to kill people. He never worked at McDonalds. He couldn't find a job anywhere other than McDonalds. That does not mean he worked there. The fast food chain itself said he never worked there. That's the main reason why he went to grad school.
I honestly do not know where everyone is getting this "he was bullied" crap. He wasn't! He was teased just as much as any average teenager was teased. Like I said earlier, he wasn't a loner. He had friends. He hung out with people. He played sports. He wasn't the most outgoing person, but he also wasn't someone who had absolutely no friends. He was nice. He wasn't an angry person. I am introverted. I have a few really good friends and with them I am very outgoing but with people I don't know I am quiet. That is how James was. I had never heard of anyone being mean to him to a point where it got out of hand. As a matter of fact, a lot of people were in awe of how smart he was! If you will blame this on anything blame it on a mental illness, and even that does not mean he should get a 'get out of jail' pass. He deserves to pay for what he does, but please people need to quit blaming this on him being bullied!


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Surfman
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03 Aug 2012, 7:29 am

What ever happened to the schizoid label??

has it been broken down to 8-10 different sub groups now or sumtin?



angelbear
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03 Aug 2012, 7:58 am

Interesting post Mayel. Thanks for sharing----I never really thought it sounded like he had been bullied. It still sounds like he had a lot of Aspie traits. I am thinking more and more it is schizophrenia (or maybe drugs)



Mayel
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03 Aug 2012, 8:24 am

angelbear wrote:
Interesting post Mayel. Thanks for sharing----I never really thought it sounded like he had been bullied. It still sounds like he had a lot of Aspie traits. I am thinking more and more it is schizophrenia (or maybe drugs)

I didn't think he had been bullied, too. You don't have to be bullied to be or become isolated, emotionally or otherwise. We also don't know who this person who commented is anyway, which kind of relationship he/she had.
I'm also inclined to think that he may have paranoid schizophrenia or Delusions/Paranoia because both let you plan things and be cognitively competent while those delusions, hallucinations...etc., don't go away if left untreated and can become even stronger (since without a social net, nobody will check on reality for you) so as to trigger taking actions in their reality. Nonetheless, I'm inclined to think alienation and resulting rage, as well as general stress, may have taken its part here, too.
But I also think that medication could have had effects. According to his dating profiles he didn't do drugs....if that's true,then drugs are not a possibility.

There's said to be a schizophrenia spectrum and schizophrenia shares similarities with ASD in its negative symptoms. Although they can be comorbid if ASD has been diagnosed/present since childhood which means that ASD symptoms had to precede SZ symptoms. The SZ symptoms have to entail hallucinations or delusions to be comorbid with ASD, as well....
Anyhow, other conditions like schizoid PD could be possible, too (at least as underlying condition). It may be more than one condition which he has.
I've found this article which I found intresting:
WSJ


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Sweetleaf
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03 Aug 2012, 8:32 am

Well that's a relief its not the people with aspergers you have to look out for, its those schizophrenics :roll:

I guess I am confused as to why everyone here gets all worked up about the possibility the guy had AS...because oh no people might think people with aspergers are all potential murderers. But if it gets shifted over to schizophrenia it's all good? I don't know that just seems to be the attitude I see.......'as long as he had schizophrenia and not AS then it's all good because people wont think badly of people with AS, they'll just think badly of people with schizophrenia.' Hopefully that is not how most here feel about it, and I am just getting the wrong impression.

Point being blaming it on any specific disorder is probably a bad idea.......if he does have a disorder then yes it could have been a factor, but its not like most people with schizophrenia are murderers anymore than most people with AS would be.


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03 Aug 2012, 8:53 am

dp



Last edited by Surfman on 03 Aug 2012, 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Surfman
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03 Aug 2012, 8:53 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Hopefully that is not how most here feel about it, and I am just getting the wrong impression.


Its the right impression.

I friend of mine became psychotic recently. I had to speak to authorities about him. He was getting off on scaring others and weirding out people IRL. Luckily some close friends intervened and persistently spoke to him about his state of mind

A bit later he self admitted into a mental institution. He took too many recreational drugs.... a lot of cannabis.... :roll: but a naturally autistic disposition was his earliest noticeable delineation....



Mayel
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03 Aug 2012, 8:58 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well that's a relief its not the people with aspergers you have to look out for, its those schizophrenics :roll:

I guess I am confused as to why everyone here gets all worked up about the possibility the guy had AS...because oh no people might think people with aspergers are all potential murderers. But if it gets shifted over to schizophrenia it's all good? I don't know that just seems to be the attitude I see.......'as long as he had schizophrenia and not AS then it's all good because people wont think badly of people with AS, they'll just think badly of people with schizophrenia.' Hopefully that is not how most here feel about it, and I am just getting the wrong impression.

Point being blaming it on any specific disorder is probably a bad idea.......if he does have a disorder then yes it could have been a factor, but its not like most people with schizophrenia are murderers anymore than most people with AS would be.

I hope you're not talking about me because I don't care whether he had ASD or Schizophrenia, or some kind of PD or whatever else there is. At least I don't care as in swaying my opinion in one way or another because I don't want to be associated with someone who committed a murderous act (In fact, I've been stigmatised because of the mediatic image of a spree shooter without mental health having been an issue in this association.)
I'm just theorising about mental health because I'm interested (maybe obsessed). But I'm perfectly aware that their is much more to things like this, not just individual psychological pathologizing but also societal responsibility, maybe on a local level but it may also tell us something about the state of the world, in all its intricacy from personal circumstances, to politico-economic systems, to culture, to society's standards and views...and so on.

I also would never say that mental illness equals violence. I also like to study peace and conflict research and I can assure you mental health issues is a factor that's much more associated with victims of conflict than perpetrators.


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Surfman
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03 Aug 2012, 9:01 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
but its not like most people with schizophrenia are murderers anymore than most people with AS would be.


I think the reason schizophrenia has such a bad rep is that there actually is a higher incidence of murder......

I know many people who hate labelling groups

like being intoxicated all the time doesnt always make you a good judge

neither does youth qualify much in the way of experience



Sweetleaf
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03 Aug 2012, 9:10 am

Surfman wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Hopefully that is not how most here feel about it, and I am just getting the wrong impression.


Its the right impression.

I friend of mine became psychotic recently. I had to speak to authorities about him. He was getting off on scaring others and weirding out people IRL. Luckily some close friends intervened and persistently spoke to him about his state of mind

A bit later he self admitted into a mental institution. He took too many recreational drugs.... a lot of cannabis.... :roll: but a naturally autistic disposition was his earliest noticeable delineation....


Well now I am a little bit confused...because your friend became psychotic and you felt the need to consult the authorities, all people with schizophrenia should be looked at as murderous time bombs waiting to explode? If anything the last thing schizophrenic people need is more stigma about their condition...Don't they have enough problems already? considering the psychosis and all. I mean all stigma like that does is lead to worse assumptions and probably worse psychiatric treatment which if anything would be a contributing factor to the few schizophrenic individuals that might end up losing it and doing harm.


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