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Have you been born again?

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TM
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06 Sep 2012, 6:04 pm

No, I'm fairly sure it would greatly hurt my mother.



Alfonso12345
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06 Sep 2012, 9:12 pm

thechadmaster wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:

Luckily for me, I've never been "spiritual", superstitious, or mentally-prone to related gookery.

Religion: cutting your finger, then selling you a band-aid.


Lucky? For this week maybe. I doubt youll be feeling lucky come judgement day. You can deny God's existence all you want, the truth is the truth even when nobody believes it.

What a hollow worldview you must have... 80ish years on earth followed by an eternity of nothing? I could never imagine that thought process. Whats your motivation to do good as opposed to bad?

Fnord

Unfortunately, you're right. All Christians at one point or another use salvation as a mere "get out of hell free card". I am no different, God expects us to lead Godly lives, but realizes that we cannot attain His perfect standards, thats why we need Jesus. Through the cross He basically traded criminal records with us. He gives us a clean slate in God's book of every sin ever committed and accepted our extremely lengthy record and the punishment that goes along with it.

As a Christian I realize that it should have been me on the cross, it was my sin that Jesus suffered and died for. Had mankind never sinned, Jesus would not have endured what He did.


The motivation an atheist has to do good things instead of bad things is a legitimate desire to do good, not because of a fear of Hell. Is that your motivation to do good things? Are you motivated to do good because of a fear of Hell?

There is also no evidence that the Christian god is a real god or that it is the only real god, if in fact it does exist. Christianity is just a religion and nothing more, that uses fear to control the believers.



Last edited by Alfonso12345 on 07 Sep 2012, 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sweetleaf
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06 Sep 2012, 9:32 pm

hmm once was more than enough...But yeah I just don't have it in me to buy into such nonsense, anymore. I was a christian as a child cause my mom forced me and my siblings to be involved with church but the more I learned the more ridiculous religion started looking.


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06 Sep 2012, 9:41 pm

Sigh.... this is something I heard about as a child and took literally. For several months I thought there was a way to keep starting over as a baby and never die. I'm still disappointed it doesn't mean that. :?



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06 Sep 2012, 10:31 pm

thechadmaster wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Certainly not in the evangelical sense.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Youve said in the past you belong to the Lutheran Church. Have they recently abandoned their teachings on salvation? I know a former Lutheran, now Anglican Pastor who has always taught the need for being born again.


Lutheranism teaches salvation is entirely in God's hands, which means he gives us his gift of grace, and not a matter of us choosing to accept him - that last being the evangelical version of being born again. We in fact practice infant baptism, through which God can impart grace to the infant through the sacrament, thus stoking the gift of faith. From then on, if the child is raised in the faith, then he/she will be exposed to the written and spoken word, which is also means of grace, as are the sacraments. That's not to say that only babies can come to Christ - far from it, we believe anyone can be saved at any time. But with adults, we don't expect any sort of life altering experience - in fact, we tend to discourage any sort of evangelical enthusiasm.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



hyperlexian
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07 Sep 2012, 2:48 am

i think it would be a beautiful feeling to be born again. i am not so lucky.


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Alfonso12345
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07 Sep 2012, 9:36 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
thechadmaster wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Certainly not in the evangelical sense.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Youve said in the past you belong to the Lutheran Church. Have they recently abandoned their teachings on salvation? I know a former Lutheran, now Anglican Pastor who has always taught the need for being born again.


Lutheranism teaches salvation is entirely in God's hands, which means he gives us his gift of grace, and not a matter of us choosing to accept him - that last being the evangelical version of being born again. We in fact practice infant baptism, through which God can impart grace to the infant through the sacrament, thus stoking the gift of faith. From then on, if the child is raised in the faith, then he/she will be exposed to the written and spoken word, which is also means of grace, as are the sacraments. That's not to say that only babies can come to Christ - far from it, we believe anyone can be saved at any time. But with adults, we don't expect any sort of life altering experience - in fact, we tend to discourage any sort of evangelical enthusiasm.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Does this mean that damnation is entirely in God's hands and people can't choose to go to Heaven or Hell, they just go wherever he sends them, or I should say "they just go wherever he plans on them going"?



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07 Sep 2012, 10:06 am

Quote:
we tend to discourage any sort of evangelical enthusiasm.


:lmao:
As someone who was raised Lutheran, I can confirm that this is the overriding theme of the faith.



b9
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07 Sep 2012, 10:31 am

Quote:
Have you been born again?

i would not know. i was born into this life i have, but before i was was born i have no memory.
i think the same could be said of everybody.

i am not sure the answer can be derived for your question.



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07 Sep 2012, 12:39 pm

If you've been baptised, you've been born again--of water and the Holy Spirit--to remove the stain of Original Sin from your soul.

I think it was Nicodemus who asked the same silly question about going back into his mother.


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07 Sep 2012, 1:29 pm

In the Reformed (Presbyterian) Church, there are only two sacraments: Baptism and Communion.

In both of these, the Pastor always states that there is no special state of grace conferred by either sacrament, and that they are only outward signs of an inward state.

Thus, being 'Saved' is merely a choice, and not some magical act of existential transmogrification.


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Kraichgauer
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07 Sep 2012, 2:39 pm

Alfonso12345 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
thechadmaster wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Certainly not in the evangelical sense.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Youve said in the past you belong to the Lutheran Church. Have they recently abandoned their teachings on salvation? I know a former Lutheran, now Anglican Pastor who has always taught the need for being born again.


Lutheranism teaches salvation is entirely in God's hands, which means he gives us his gift of grace, and not a matter of us choosing to accept him - that last being the evangelical version of being born again. We in fact practice infant baptism, through which God can impart grace to the infant through the sacrament, thus stoking the gift of faith. From then on, if the child is raised in the faith, then he/she will be exposed to the written and spoken word, which is also means of grace, as are the sacraments. That's not to say that only babies can come to Christ - far from it, we believe anyone can be saved at any time. But with adults, we don't expect any sort of life altering experience - in fact, we tend to discourage any sort of evangelical enthusiasm.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Does this mean that damnation is entirely in God's hands and people can't choose to go to Heaven or Hell, they just go wherever he sends them, or I should say "they just go wherever he plans on them going"?


Actually, we believe that all of humankind is separated from God, and would go to hell without him. Salvation is meant for everyone, but some obstinately reject the gift. Who is not saved, though, is for God to say, not any of us.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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07 Sep 2012, 4:52 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Actually, we believe that all of humankind is separated from God, and would go to hell without him. Salvation is meant for everyone, but some obstinately reject the gift. Who is not saved, though, is for God to say, not any of us.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If salvation is purely a matter of Grace, a gift from God, then professing Christ (which is a work) is irrelevant. What about people who never heard of Christ? Are they lost? What about people who learned of Christ from very bad teachers and rejected the bad teaching of these poor instructors. Are they lost? Many who declare Christ are charlatans and frauds. Should the victims who they duped by lost because of the dishonesty of the fraudulent teachers?

What about people who yearn and long to get themselves straight in mind and heart? Are they lost?

ruveyn



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07 Sep 2012, 5:18 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Actually, we believe that all of humankind is separated from God, and would go to hell without him. Salvation is meant for everyone, but some obstinately reject the gift. Who is not saved, though, is for God to say, not any of us.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If salvation is purely a matter of Grace, a gift from God, then professing Christ (which is a work) is irrelevant. What about people who never heard of Christ? Are they lost? What about people who learned of Christ from very bad teachers and rejected the bad teaching of these poor instructors. Are they lost? Many who declare Christ are charlatans and frauds. Should the victims who they duped by lost because of the dishonesty of the fraudulent teachers?

What about people who yearn and long to get themselves straight in mind and heart? Are they lost?

ruveyn


Not my job to decide who's lost, just to promote the great commission.
And no, having Christian faith isn't a work, as we believe even that is a gift from God.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Last edited by Kraichgauer on 07 Sep 2012, 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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07 Sep 2012, 5:19 pm

Mindsigh wrote:
If you've been baptised, you've been born again--of water and the Holy Spirit--to remove the stain of Original Sin from your soul.

I think it was Nicodemus who asked the same silly question about going back into his mother.


And what if you reject christianity after being baptized?


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07 Sep 2012, 5:52 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Not my job to decide who's lost, just to promote the great commission.
And no, having Christian faith isn't a work, as we believe even that is a gift from God.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Making a decision is as much a work as putting on your pants. It is an action and a result of the exercise of will and mind.

Faith does not come from out of the blue. It comes from thinking and feeling.

ruveyn