Turn the other cheek, is it really work (Self defense)?

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pawelk1986
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11 May 2013, 12:17 pm

Jesus Christ said that we should turn the other cheek if someone hurt us, but does this really work?

I'm Polish and Catholic, In Poland we have restrictive law on self defense and we have very restrictive law on Gun, in fact it's almost impossible to get licence for hand gun, and obtaining license for hunting or sport gun is very hard.

And if you get robbed and accidentally kill the thief, you can very serious problem with, at least polish children can beat up bully in self-defense if they ware attacked first without punishment from school:-)

Unfortunately many UE introducing "Zero Tolerance" programs similar to US, with is very stupid why Punish victim for protecting themself, teaching kids that better to be beaten, than hit bully
I personally believe in
Si vis pacem para bellum:-)

It me favorite Latin proverb:-)



thomas81
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11 May 2013, 12:20 pm

I was reading an amusing tweet from Ricky Gervais today which i think says all that needs to be said on this.

"The people who shout the loudest about gun support tend to be upstanding Christians who believe in a god that will protect them and deliver them from all evil... ...but they carry a gun, just in case"


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puddingmouse
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11 May 2013, 12:27 pm

Lots of wise philosophies warn against seeking revenge, like the Chinese proverb that says that if you seek revenge, you'd better dig two graves. Jesus takes it one step to far in saying that you should put yourself out there to take on more punishment.

I mean turning the other cheek sometimes disturbs your abuser into thinking 'what sort of indestructible lunatic am I dealing with here?', but 99% of the time the abuser never stops or gets tired of abusing you.

Following that teaching of Jesus made me take on so much unnecessary suffering when I was younger.


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abacacus
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11 May 2013, 1:09 pm

Not once it gets physical. Walking away before anything gets that far is the best option, and should be taken whenever possible, but if it's unavoidable (for whatever reason) allowing yourself to be assaulted will do nothing but lead to a bigger beating and more bruises.


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GGPViper
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11 May 2013, 1:14 pm

Was bullied in school.

Beat the crap out of the bullies.

Was no longer bullied in school.

Problem, Jesus?



YippySkippy
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11 May 2013, 1:19 pm

When I was a kid, I had a bully who liked to pull my hair every day. My mom told me to ignore her and she'd stop. It went on for months. Then one day I lost my temper, grabbed a handful of her hair, and yanked her head all the way to the floor (she was standing up at the time, even better!). She never bothered me again.



Tequila
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11 May 2013, 1:22 pm

abacacus wrote:
Not once it gets physical. Walking away before anything gets that far is the best option, and should be taken whenever possible, but if it's unavoidable (for whatever reason) allowing yourself to be assaulted will do nothing but lead to a bigger beating and more bruises.


Not only that, but it could become more serious with time too, as they know you won't fight back.

Predatory people often work this way too.

If your personal safety is threatened, you must find a way to adequately defend yourself (or avoid the confrontation).



OliveOilMom
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11 May 2013, 1:52 pm

Turning the other cheek does not work. Yes, Jesus said it. Look what happened to Him.


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pawelk1986
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11 May 2013, 2:10 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Lots of wise philosophies warn against seeking revenge, like the Chinese proverb that says that if you seek revenge, you'd better dig two graves. .


Funny i heard proverb about two graves in Fringe :D



AngelRho
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11 May 2013, 2:19 pm

pawelk1986 wrote:
Jesus Christ said that we should turn the other cheek if someone hurt us, but does this really work?

First ask when Jesus was present on the earth and who His audience was when He spoke.

He was teaching in what we call the first century to predominantly Jewish crowds. At this point in time the Jews were at the mercy of their Roman captors. The prevailing view of Messiah at this time was that Messiah would be a mighty king, a military leader, and a unifying element for the Hebrew nation. They were looking for everything that Jesus wasn't. Jesus wasn't even the first to take a popular unifying role. There were other potential messianic figures who had inspired popular uprisings against the Romans both before and after Jesus, and they all failed. The Romans were never that combative with Jesus and His followers, nor had they any reason to be. They were all a non-threat. It was the Pharisee class that felt a political threat as well as a threat to religious authority.

Jesus' audience covered a wide swath of Jewish society, many of whom probably expected Jesus to lead a rebellion. Look at the Biblical record--He feeds 5,000 men at a time on a couple of fish and a loaf of bread. Shortly after that He feeds 4,000. I mean, He's losing numbers here, and not long after that He starts teaching some seriously unattractive stuff that drives many more followers away. What He had left was a pretty solid core of followers, but His teachings were purposefully non-threatening.

And here is what I'm getting at: Because of the social, religious, and political conditions in effect at the time, it was easy for Jews to be revenge-oriented towards the Romans. For the sake of keeping the peace and winning converts among the Romans in the future, Jesus was saying, "When someone strikes you on one cheek," He was talking in terms that those people understood. And in this case He meant specifically the Romans. You can reword it as "When a Roman soldier strikes you on one cheek, turn and let him strike the other side, too." Going the extra mile means the same thing. It means being taken by force, i.e. against your will. When a Roman soldier takes you by force to carry his stuff one mile, stay with him another mile.

This is all important because it shows a kind spirit that Roman soldiers are not taught to expect. Going the extra mile not only shows kindness, but it helps open a dialog in which the oppressed person can share the gospel with an unbeliever in a non-threatening kind of way. It's a behavioral pattern that completely disarms the enemy and opens the door to evangelism. First, get around the beam of a vengeful spirit that is blocking your view to understanding your enemy. Disarm your enemy by showing unexpected kindness. And finally, make your enemy your brother by winning a convert. There's no guarantee that you'll win a convert the first time out, but at worst all you did was plant a seed.

Jesus was all about staying on task to spread His message. It never had anything to do with "Oh, look how great I am!! ! Somebody slapped me once, so I turned around to let them do it twice." It was always about doing whatever it took to win souls.

Besides, Jesus didn't teach any kind of strict, non-violent approach. One important value that Jesus promoted was the noble idea of putting yourself in harm's way to help your friends. Jesus even at times advised that it might be best to carry weapons for personal protection. Peace is always preferred in the gospels. It is not, however, assured. There is a time for everything under the sun--a time to endure oppression, and a time to rescue the oppressed. While Jesus did say to endure violent treatment at the hands of an oppressor, He never advised people against intervening on behalf of victims, with the sole exception of His own arrest at Gethsemane. We have to be very careful in how we interpret passages like "turn the other cheek," because I really don't think this makes a good case for pacifism.



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11 May 2013, 2:34 pm

Turning the other cheek works if your goal is to remain a victim, or if you are Ghandi. Otherwise, to get any kind of harassment to stop you have to make it stop yourself. This can either be by physically stopping it yourself, by what you say to the other person, or by calling the authorities.

Nobody stopped bullying me until I literally hit the bully back. That's what it took.


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11 May 2013, 2:44 pm

Turn the other cheek, in my opinion it only really works when it's a one-time issue that won't repeat itself, and it is a small thing that can be easily ignored. Personally, I would tell them to stop, and take proportionate action if they don't.


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11 May 2013, 2:51 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Lots of wise philosophies warn against seeking revenge, like the Chinese proverb that says that if you seek revenge, you'd better dig two graves. Jesus takes it one step to far in saying that you should put yourself out there to take on more punishment.

I mean turning the other cheek sometimes disturbs your abuser into thinking 'what sort of indestructible lunatic am I dealing with here?', but 99% of the time the abuser never stops or gets tired of abusing you.

Following that teaching of Jesus made me take on so much unnecessary suffering when I was younger.


Same here, I thought if I just took it all and still continued to keep going and working on my schoolwork and all that...And I actually thought eventually I'd make it through it all with my christian faith still strongly intact. Because there was all that teaching and stuff about how you have to trust god and pray and he will eventually hear you and maybe help you.

I want to slap myself for my past stupidity, because I now know its all rubbish...I shouldn't have been just taking all that crap.


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11 May 2013, 2:51 pm

Also, pick your battles. If it's something that you can safely ignore because if you don't then you will get your ass kicked, then ignore it. If it's not something you can ignore without making things worse, then you have to take action even if it means getting your ass kicked.

Remember, getting your butt whipped is not the worst thing that can happen to you. Physical pain goes away but humiliation and the label of a wimp lasts a lifetime.


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The_Walrus
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11 May 2013, 3:26 pm

It isn't supposed to "work". It is moral advice rather than practical advice.



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11 May 2013, 5:52 pm

Depends,if it's an insult walk away,if they physically try to lay hands upon you,then stomp the everliving $hit out of them.You can bet they were not going to play nice.
I turned the other cheek for awhile,it never stopped the real aggressive bullies or my ex.


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