Italian Court Rules that MMR Vaccine Caused Autism
Tyri0n
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This raises an interesting issue. I'm curious if studies in other countries where Big Pharma and corporations do not control science have actually come to different results about the supposed connection between vaccines and autism.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 58596.html
http://www.thedailydigest.org/2013/01/1 ... es-autism/ (contains some text from the opinion)
An interesting study here that relates to the MMR vaccine and autism: http://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/Singh% ... 202003.pdf
To date, no longitudinal studies have been done in the United States that compare the autism rates in unvaccinated children vs. vaccinated children because such studies would be considered "unethical." Personally, my parents are convinced that I developed autistic symptoms shortly after getting the MMR vaccine, so they did not vaccinate my 8 younger siblings, none of whom developed autism.
Don't you wish an actual study involving hundreds of subjects could be done that could either prove or disprove this hypothesis for good?
Last edited by Tyri0n on 06 Jul 2013, 3:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Tyri0n
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Their lawyers think they know more about medicine than their doctors.
Except one of the links I cited said the nation's Ministry of Health did not contest the case at all, and the plaintiffs did have medical professionals on their side.
The difference is, in Italy, there is a public health system, rather than a for-profit private health system like we have in the U.S. Therefore, there are fewer incentives to corrupt science for profit, as is the case in the U.S., unfortunately. I'm curious if there have been actual studies in European countries that could shed light on this issue.
U.S. "doctors" keep making claims that vaccines do not cause autism, but in point of fact, there has never been a longitudinal study testing the hypothesis in the U.S. I don't know how you can make these claims while refusing to even do studies on the issue. At least study the issue by comparing doing a controlled study with 1000 kids who are vaccinated and 1000 who aren't. That would settle the issue for good. But it has never been done. Why? No corporation would ever fund such a thing.
Last edited by Tyri0n on 06 Jul 2013, 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tyri0n
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No, but the U.S. has a for-profit private healthcare system, and drugs/vaccines are a gigantic industry. Furthermore, scientific research is very difficult to do in this country without funding from these private corporations. All the incentives are there to let profit take precedence over the scientific method. I am not sure to what extent this actually happens, but all the incentives are definitely there.
If someone could link me some European studies on this issue, that would be helpful.
AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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So, maybe a settlement out of court deal, which was then approved by the court?
And of course, court cases hinge on all kinds of things besides the main centrality of the facts.
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Tyri0n
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I think it's far more likely to be some kind of autoimmune response, rather than the toxicity of the mercury.
* and I say this just as a lay person interested in science.
I totally agree. Thimerosol was removed from vaccines in 2001. There was a study done in Cambodia--an undeveloped country with few vaccinations-- that found almost no cases of autism. *goes to find study*
Doesn't prove it was vaccines, but it seems to be something specific to modern life that causes autism. It might very well be stress or artificial flavoring or sugar. I'm not sure. I think there need to be more studies in developing countries among people with no access to modern life to examine why they don't have autism at the same rates we do. (and also why South Korea has autism rates twice what we do)
Last edited by Tyri0n on 06 Jul 2013, 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I got a virus warning from the first link btw, and I haven't read either.
I actually believe that we might handle vaccines worse than NTs, and that might be worth investigating. But any studies concerning vaccines are still banging on about it being the cause of autism, so I doubt it would be possible to do an unbiased study about what effect, if any, vaccines has on already autistic people.
I found this concerning thimerosol, which apparently isn't the same type of vaccine as the one in Italy? Anyway I've bolded the relevant information, and they mention Italy too:
The following timeline shows key activities performed by CDC, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), and the Institute of Medicine (IOM) concerning thimerosal in vaccines from 1999 to 2010.
2010
September 13. Results of a CDC study do not support an association between prenatal and infant exposure to vaccines and immunoglobulins that contain thimerosal and an increased risk for autism spectrum disorder (ASD).
2009
February 1. Results of an Italian study were reassuring that immunization in infancy with thimerosal-containing vaccines does not decrease neuropsychological performance later in childhood.
2007
September 27. Results of a CDC study do not support an association between early exposure to thimerosal in vaccines and neuropsychological problems in children between the ages of 7 and 10 years.
July 7. CDC issues a statement on autism and thimerosal that states in part "Some people believe increased exposure to thimerosal (from the addition of important vaccines recommended for children) explains the higher prevalence [of autism] in recent years. However, evidence from several studies examining trends in vaccine use and changes in autism frequency does not support such an association.
2006
September 26. In a statement prepared for the Coalition for Mercury-free Drugs, the FDA concludes that the evidence reviewed by the IOM in 2004 does not support an association between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism.
2004
May 28. ACIP recommends that children between the ages of 6 and 23 months routinely receive an inactivated influenza (flu) vaccine. ACIP does not recommend using the thimerosal-free flu vaccine over the thimerosal-containing flu vaccine, and states that the benefits of flu vaccination outweigh any risk from thimerosal exposure.
May 17. After reviewing over 200 scientific studies that examined thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, IOM concludes in a report that the studies "consistently provided evidence of no association between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism."
2003
November. A study finds no consistent significant associations between exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines and a variety of kidney, nervous system, and developmental problems.
August. Another study looks for a link between autism incidence and the use of thimerosal-containing vaccines. The study does not find a link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism in Denmark and Sweden, where autism rates continued to increase although thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 1992.
January. The last children's vaccines that use thimerosal as a preservative expire.
2001
Except for influenza (flu), thimerosal is removed from or reduced in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and under manufactured for the U.S. market.
October 1. IOM's Immunization Safety Review Committee issues a report concluding there is not enough evidence to disprove claims that thimerosal in childhood vaccines causes autism, attention deficit hypersensitivity disorder, or speech or language delay.
May 5. A risk assessment of thimerosal use in childhood vaccines finds no evidence of harm from the use of thimerosal as a preservative, other than redness and swelling at the injection site.
2000
June 7 and 8. Fifty-one vaccine and vaccine safety researchers and experts meet at the Simpsonwood Retreat Center in Atlanta, GA to review data regarding thimerosal in vaccines and nervous system disorders. A report summarizing the meeting was presented to ACIP.
1999
The FDA reviews the use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines and finds no evidence of harm, but as a precautionary measure, recommends removing thimerosal from vaccines routinely given to infants.
November 5. CDC states that vaccine manufacturers, FDA, and other agencies are working together to reduce the amount of thimerosal in vaccines, or to replace them with thimerosal-free vaccines, as soon as possible.
October 20. ACIP reviews information about thimerosal in vaccines provided by CDC's National Immunization Program and several vaccine manufacturers regarding the availability of vaccines that do not contain thimerosal as a preservative.
July 7. The American Academy of Pediatrics and the Public Health Service issue a joint statement that says "there is no data or evidence of any harm caused by the level of exposure that some children may have encountered in following the existing immunization schedule." The American Academy of Family Physicians issues a comparable statement soon after.
Just out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to have a translated copy of the ruling and/or decision, would you? Last time I checked, when one cites to another court's fact-finding, you generally cite to the ruling, not to news articles.
From the article I read, this looks like a settlement, and just like happens in the US, what was said in the settlement is not always what gets reported in the media.
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Tyri0n
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I actually believe that we might handle vaccines worse than NTs, and that might be worth investigating. But any studies concerning vaccines are still banging on about it being the cause of autism, so I doubt it would be possible to do an unbiased study about what effect, if any, vaccines has on already autistic people.
I found this concerning thimerosol, which apparently isn't the same type of vaccine as the one in Italy? Anyway I've bolded the relevant information, and they mention Italy too:
The following timeline shows key activities performed by CDC, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), and the Institute of Medicine (IOM) concerning thimerosal in vaccines from 1999 to 2010.
2010
September 13. Results of a CDC study do not support an association between prenatal and infant exposure to vaccines and immunoglobulins that contain thimerosal and an increased risk for autism spectrum disorder (ASD).
2009
February 1. Results of an Italian study were reassuring that immunization in infancy with thimerosal-containing vaccines does not decrease neuropsychological performance later in childhood.
2007
September 27. Results of a CDC study do not support an association between early exposure to thimerosal in vaccines and neuropsychological problems in children between the ages of 7 and 10 years.
July 7. CDC issues a statement on autism and thimerosal that states in part "Some people believe increased exposure to thimerosal (from the addition of important vaccines recommended for children) explains the higher prevalence [of autism] in recent years. However, evidence from several studies examining trends in vaccine use and changes in autism frequency does not support such an association.
2006
September 26. In a statement prepared for the Coalition for Mercury-free Drugs, the FDA concludes that the evidence reviewed by the IOM in 2004 does not support an association between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism.
2004
May 28. ACIP recommends that children between the ages of 6 and 23 months routinely receive an inactivated influenza (flu) vaccine. ACIP does not recommend using the thimerosal-free flu vaccine over the thimerosal-containing flu vaccine, and states that the benefits of flu vaccination outweigh any risk from thimerosal exposure.
May 17. After reviewing over 200 scientific studies that examined thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, IOM concludes in a report that the studies "consistently provided evidence of no association between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism."
2003
November. A study finds no consistent significant associations between exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines and a variety of kidney, nervous system, and developmental problems.
August. Another study looks for a link between autism incidence and the use of thimerosal-containing vaccines. The study does not find a link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism in Denmark and Sweden, where autism rates continued to increase although thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 1992.
January. The last children's vaccines that use thimerosal as a preservative expire.
2001
Except for influenza (flu), thimerosal is removed from or reduced in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and under manufactured for the U.S. market.
October 1. IOM's Immunization Safety Review Committee issues a report concluding there is not enough evidence to disprove claims that thimerosal in childhood vaccines causes autism, attention deficit hypersensitivity disorder, or speech or language delay.
May 5. A risk assessment of thimerosal use in childhood vaccines finds no evidence of harm from the use of thimerosal as a preservative, other than redness and swelling at the injection site.
2000
June 7 and 8. Fifty-one vaccine and vaccine safety researchers and experts meet at the Simpsonwood Retreat Center in Atlanta, GA to review data regarding thimerosal in vaccines and nervous system disorders. A report summarizing the meeting was presented to ACIP.
1999
The FDA reviews the use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines and finds no evidence of harm, but as a precautionary measure, recommends removing thimerosal from vaccines routinely given to infants.
November 5. CDC states that vaccine manufacturers, FDA, and other agencies are working together to reduce the amount of thimerosal in vaccines, or to replace them with thimerosal-free vaccines, as soon as possible.
October 20. ACIP reviews information about thimerosal in vaccines provided by CDC's National Immunization Program and several vaccine manufacturers regarding the availability of vaccines that do not contain thimerosal as a preservative.
July 7. The American Academy of Pediatrics and the Public Health Service issue a joint statement that says "there is no data or evidence of any harm caused by the level of exposure that some children may have encountered in following the existing immunization schedule." The American Academy of Family Physicians issues a comparable statement soon after.
Thimerosal was removed in 2001. So, if vaccines cause autism, it's not from thimerosal. To me, given the recent research linking autism to overactive immune system, it seems more likely that vaccines cause autism by causing a young child's immune system to overreact by exposing the child to too many pathogenic invasions at once.
To support this hypothesis, there was a study done in Tanzania which found that a number of children diagnosed with autism developed it after the age of two after a serious Malaria affliction.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16897390
More studies suggesting a possible link between MMR specifically and autism:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12145534
Relation between autism and viral infections:
http://www.jneurovirol.com/o_pdf/11(1)/001-010.pdf
Relation between autism and an overactive immune system:
"Study Finds Children with Autism Have More Active Adaptive Immune System"
http://www.autismspeaks.org/science/sci ... une-system
Tyri0n
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Just out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to have a translated copy of the ruling and/or decision, would you? Last time I checked, when one cites to another court's fact-finding, you generally cite to the ruling, not to news articles.
From the article I read, this looks like a settlement, and just like happens in the US, what was said in the settlement is not always what gets reported in the media.
The first link I cited has excerpts. I am not sure how to find Italian court rulings, as I don't know Italian. Would be curious to read the evidence presented though and why the Italian Health Ministry actually conceded the case.

Media accounts of an alleged court ruling (or settlement) without a published opinion are hard to use as precedent, let alone a foreign court in a different language.
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Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (Firaxis Games)
AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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Tyri0n
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Guillain Barre, and
PANDAS (which is itself controversial)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I had PANDAS--or pediatric bipolar or something-- as a child based on my medical history. Unfortunately, it wasn't recognized back then. It was just chalked up to my multiple food/environmental allergies that arose shortly after I got vaccinated.
I had something that was connected to both multiple food allergies and vaccines, and it led to something closer to classic NLD rather than classic autism. I had a dramatic change of personality at 7 months and then a few allergies. Then, overnight I had multiple catastrophic allergies to everything which appeared overnight and then disappeared overnight about 8 months later.
AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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Hi, honest to gosh, it doesn't sound like PANDAS which is pretty specific. But it does sound like it could be some other autoimmune condition which revved up your body's response way too much.
The real question might be how it went away overnight.
(One study found that PANDAS was the probable cause of 50% of rapid-onset OCD cases in children. The thinking is that antibodies to strep, rather than strep itself, attack the brain's basal ganglia. Other doctors are skeptical about the whole thing, reasoning that kids get strep all the time anyway snd OCD symptoms tend to come and go, so of course you're going to have a lot of apparent correlations.)
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