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OddFiction
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29 Dec 2013, 8:42 am

There is often no subtext when conversing with someone on the autism spectrum.



Adamantium
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29 Dec 2013, 9:06 am

Where there is text, there is subtext.

But perhaps you mean something like "autistics say what they mean and mean what they say."

The reality is that language happens between people, not in the mind of one person, and people often use words that don't mean what they think they mean. If the speaker makes an error in denotation, and the listener hears the consensus definition of the word rather then the speaker's idiosyncratic use, did the speaker "say what he meant?"

Do autistics have subconscious mental processes? Do these not sometimes find expression in their written and spoken words?

Languages constantly evolve. Words change meaning. New words come into being, old words fall into disuse. Subcultures form rapidly in small communities and spawn dialects.

Language is never without these complexities, and there is always subtext, even if it is thin and mostly about the cultural assumptions of the speaker.



Dan_Undiagnosed
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04 Jan 2014, 7:33 am

I'd say there's less subtext, not none. It's a spectrum after all. I'm surprised by how much cushioning some people need. I've noticed it especially with women. Partners, friends or even my sisters and mother, if you say something that you only mean to help you have to think before hand of softening it even if it's something that you wouldn't find too direct if someone said it to you. Sometimes I'll give my girlfriend advice or an opinion and I know I've been too blunt when she just stares at me. Then I have to do what I think is this pointless ritual of repeating what I just said in another way until she says thank you for the rewording. Maybe it's not pointless. Maybe if we keep doing it I'll eventually learn how to be tactful from the start.



arielhawksquill
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04 Jan 2014, 7:42 am

Because they lack Theory of Mind, sometimes Aspies will leave out an important part of their statement or argument because they assume the other person knows what they are thinking about. In those cases, the subtext is in the unspoken information which must be sussed out before the conversation can make any sense.

Because some Aspies also have alexithymia, they may have an emotional subtext that THEY THEMSELVES are not aware of, but is extremely obvious to the person they are talking to, so that a red-faced Aspie yelling "I AM NOT UPSET, I AM BEING PERFECTLY RATIONAL" has a subtext of "I am actually very upset and not dealing with it."



binaryodes
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04 Jan 2014, 7:59 am

OddFiction wrote:
There is often no subtext when conversing with someone on the autism spectrum.


I believe that aspies dont communicate hidden meanings. People on the ASD tend to be straightforward. To put it somewhat reductively people on the spectrum communicate on an overt as opposed to a covert level. At least when I* communicate I wouldnt know how* to communicate on that subliminal level. I convey things through surface meanings.


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franknfurter
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04 Jan 2014, 10:31 am

binaryodes wrote:
OddFiction wrote:
There is often no subtext when conversing with someone on the autism spectrum.


I believe that aspies dont communicate hidden meanings. People on the ASD tend to be straightforward. To put it somewhat reductively people on the spectrum communicate on an overt as opposed to a covert level. At least when I* communicate I wouldnt know how* to communicate on that subliminal level. I convey things through surface meanings.



does anyone actually consciously communicate hidden meanings? or is it an unconscious process i cant imagine anyone doing that unless i have been missing something big.



anneurysm
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04 Jan 2014, 2:36 pm

franknfurter wrote:
binaryodes wrote:
OddFiction wrote:
There is often no subtext when conversing with someone on the autism spectrum.


I believe that aspies dont communicate hidden meanings. People on the ASD tend to be straightforward. To put it somewhat reductively people on the spectrum communicate on an overt as opposed to a covert level. At least when I* communicate I wouldnt know how* to communicate on that subliminal level. I convey things through surface meanings.



does anyone actually consciously communicate hidden meanings? or is it an unconscious process i cant imagine anyone doing that unless i have been missing something big.


My best guess is probably not. Hidden meanings seem to be learned naturally over time as people grow up - they seem to be as much of a part of communication as overt meanings. As well, I'd agree with binaryodes' comment. However, very occasionally, I have met people on the spectrum who have seem to have learned or have shown to understand some covert-level communication (myself, for one). For example, they may use sarcasm or be playful/joke around.



Marybird
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04 Jan 2014, 3:55 pm

OddFiction wrote:
There is often no subtext when conversing with someone on the autism spectrum.

Honest communication. No alternative motive or manipulation. Social naïvete.



naturalplastic
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04 Jan 2014, 4:24 pm

Marybird wrote:
OddFiction wrote:
There is often no subtext when conversing with someone on the autism spectrum.

Honest communication. No alternative motive or manipulation. Social naïvete.


Basically that. The stereotype is that spectrumites both speak, and understand, things literally.

A young lady on another aspie website would mope about how she would get beaten up on non-spectrum websites by posters complaining about what she said "between the lines". She said to us that "with me there is no 'between the lines'. I always say what I mean." She not only couldnt lay things between the lines, but was probably naive about when she was unintensionally appearing to put things between the lines that she didnt mean.

With that person that statement would probably be absolutely true. But spectrumites vary by how much subtext they use. Some are as subtextual (not to mention as sarcastic, and wise- acher-ish, as anyone else).



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04 Jan 2014, 7:04 pm

Sometimes, regarding context and subtext, I feel like I have the mind of an oblivious child. Unless I've made effort to study the meaning of a phrase, figure of speech, word, tone of voice, facial expression or body language, then my mind doesn't naturally pick it up. Somehow most/all of my friends and acquaintances subconsciously pick up figures of speech, and common phrases, that I may not notice, or I may take literally.

I don't know how they do it, though. Like, what in their mind prompts them to pay attention to a phrase, or assign a subtext to a figure of speech?

I genuinely would like to understand this mindset and method, so that I can practice it... And maybe it will evolve into something of a habit...

anneurysm wrote:
franknfurter wrote:
does anyone actually consciously communicate hidden meanings? or is it an unconscious process i cant imagine anyone doing that unless i have been missing something big.


My best guess is probably not. Hidden meanings seem to be learned naturally over time as people grow up - they seem to be as much of a part of communication as overt meanings. As well, I'd agree with binaryodes' comment. However, very occasionally, I have met people on the spectrum who have seem to have learned or have shown to understand some covert-level communication (myself, for one). For example, they may use sarcasm or be playful/joke around.


I did learn sarcasm at a very, very young age. It was/is my dad's humor. It still is.
I'm pretty certain that sarcasm is my closest form of lying. =P

You make amazing points here, anneurysm. Any tips or stories about how to pick-up/remember subtext?


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04 Jan 2014, 7:27 pm

I do sometimes use hidden meanings, but probably not in the same way that NTs do. In this sense I can relate to the person who said spies leave out important info thinking others know what they mean. I have more difficulty however with reading/listening between the lines than with using between thelines subtext myself.



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05 Jan 2014, 11:18 am

I wouldn't count on Aspies always being transparent about their intentions. We've all been "successfully socialized" to a certain extent and we can all be manipulative, lying and sugarcoating to varying degrees if we feel it's the best for our sake.


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