sleeping…my son barely sleeps…need input from others with AS

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My son is 12 and barely sleeps. If we take things out of his room, he walks around at night eating, etc. If we leave things in his room, i.e. TV, computer, etc. he spends all night on them. I understand that he is more of a night person, as so am I. I was just like him for years, so I get it. At the same time, I also understand that it truly takes a toll on your health as it has on mine and I am trying to figure out a way to help him sleep at night.

I would appreciate input from anyone around that age or older who is also autistic on what things might have worked for them that I could try with my son. I am a mom, I work full time and barely get sleep just spending all night checking him, listening to him, etc. and it is really taking a toll on my health after so many years. For a long time we just had him sleeping with us in our bed as this allowed us to actually get some sleep, but we can't do that forever. At this age, even when we have him in our room, he will wait until we are asleep and then get up and roam around .

Thanks much!

I am a mom too. I have AS. You got two choices, the way I see it. Drug him or give him stuff to entertain himself. If you do the latter you don't have to stay up checking on him. I know it's hard not to, but give him his modem and you go to sleep.

I have this problem too. It is really hard for me to get to sleep. I mean once im in bed i fall to sleep usually, but getting myself into bed is the problem. we have been working on making sleep hygiene part of my routine. Which is just sitting and relaxing in dim light sipping Sleepytime tea with milk and honey and I take 3mg of melatonin. A lot of the time my mom or dad will be next to me on the couch and rub my back and neck for me. Lots of times doing this so far i get super sleepy and get to bed on time. BTW for me at least, when I am up late (this happens all summer vacation) i dont need to be checked on. I'm just usually either gaming or on the internet doing this kinda stuff.

Does he get up when he needs to in the morning? Falling asleep in class, or is school affected?
If not as already suggested let him play on his electronics, just tell him he needs to keep the sound down.
If not try melatonin -which at low doses is OTC-, and/or give him sleepytime tea no idea who made it, but it might help calm him down so he goes to bed and sleeps. If that doesn't work try going to the Dr. about it.

Is he able to discuss this with you?

Often the problem is diet related. Most children these days eat and drink too much sugar. There's a lot of peer pressure for them to eat and drink whatever is popular and advertised which is usually Coca Cola, candy and chocolate.

Also try keeping a food diary. Write what your son eats every day. If he has a bad night's sleep look at what he had the day before. Lots of foods have been linked to difficulty sleeping:-

*Foods containing artificial preservatives, colorings and flavorings,
*Wheat, oats and barley (search on google for the "gluten-free diet" to find out more)
*Cow's milk, cheese, yogurt, ice cream and butter (search on google for the "casein'free diet" to find out more)

my son has this issue and I know its not food related. he can not tolerate any drink other then water. He doesn't eat candy due to dental procedures (braces, sealants, etc....) I buy as much natural, organic foods as possible and we limit sugars specifically before bed. In fact, HE limits sugars before bed cause we have discussed how too much sugar before bed can cause issues. He also wont play any video game or iPad for hours before bed cause we discussed that as being a possible issue for sleep as well.

he just is and always has been a terrible sleeper.

Have you tried tiring him out? Bring him hiking, buy a trampoline, get a basketball hoop anything to make him exhausted. This is going to sound horrible, but when you have a hyper dog thats what you do. I'm not comparing your son to a dog, it's just an idea, and anything is worth a try. I don't think drugging him is an answer, but removing sugar and caffeine from his diet can't hurt.

Does the lack of sleep affect his ability to function during the day? I get an average of 2 hours of sleep per night (and have all my life) – and that's just how I am. (My mom and grandmother were that way too.) I function better without sleep meds, than with them.

If he's functioning all right despite the lack of sleep, then maybe it's best to just let him keep himself busy at night, so you can sleep?

(Or I could be wrong... I'm definitely not an expert, but this is how we've always dealt with it in my family!)

I'm kind of like that and I'm 15. I'll spend all night on my laptop or reading if I feel like it. To be honest, there isn't much you can do. If he still functions fine and doesn't seem tired I'd just leave him to do what he wants as long as its quiet. Thats what my parents do and it works fine. If I feel tired, I'll sleep, if I don't want to, I won't. Let him choose what he thinks is best for him. If he finds school hard because of this (I do sometimes) maybe contact a professional for advice.I don't recommend the kind of diet changes some people are suggesting. Maybe cut down sugar around bedtime, but any huge changes will just bother him more. What I eat/drink at whatever time has no effect whatsoever on how I sleep in my opinion. If I feel tired and eat chocolate I'll still fall asleep the same time as if I hadn't eaten it. I think people give that suggestion far too much importance.

How do I say that "post hoc ergo propter hoc is not a valid syllogism" politely?

There is no decent scientific evidence for any of this, no matter what you might have read on Natural News or Mumsnet. You get some kid who sleeps worse after a pizza and cola, and all of a sudden it's wheat/cheese/milk/sugar/caffeine (delete as applicable). What little controlled evidence we have with sugar suggests its effects are mostly placebo, caffeine is a stimulant which wears off after a few hours, and most of the rest is pseudoscience, and needs to go in the bin with the vaccine-autism drivel.

I'm not saying some of these things aren't bad for you, and there is a dearth of research on many additives (which is to say they might be a problem, but a lot more work needs to be done), but you cannot extrapolate that a bad night's sleep after pizza and cola that these caused that bad night's sleep. It could have been any number of other factors.

Many aspies are notoriously bad sleepers. The first thing I suggest you check is anxiety. First, aspies have amygdalas on average 10-15% larger than the general population, which is probably what makes us more prone to anxiety, often worsened by bullying and other social problems, which are likely to extend into adulthood.

There is also evidence that computer screens can disrupt melatonin production, which may be implicated in sleep disturbance. If this is the case, you can use a screen brightness monitor (I use the F.lux freeware, but it doesn't seem to have done a lot of good, possibly because my sleep disturbance is down to anxiety).
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... y-bedtime/

Alternatively, you could confiscate the tech every night in return for a line of credit at the nearest bookseller. Don't forget to leave a torch lying around, or he'll wander.

I interviewed Larry Harmon, the original Bozo the Clown, back in 1984, when he was running a sort of mock Presidential campaign and he told me that he had never slept more than 3 hours a night in his entire life - at the time he was just turning 60. My mom is in her 70s and has a friend who says the same thing - never slept more than 3-4 hours a night in her life. So it's not a health issue for everyone. If you're getting enough REM sleep, it doesn't really matter how long your body lies dormant. It's more the brain that needs down-time from reality.

That said, it's not uncommon for people with AS to have trouble getting to sleep. Our brains seem to resist the process of shutting down consciousness and switching tasks from focus on the physical world, to focus on the dream world. I have no suggestions, though. You wouldn't want to use my personal solution on a child.

Larry Harmon lived to the age of 83 so it looks like 3 hours of sleep a night did not cut his life short.
I go in cycles. Some periods when i can sleep as long as i want, i only sleep about 4 hours. other times its closer to 7. im just trying to see if I can get myself to sleep by a certain time. Even if i go to bed at 11 pm and wake up early at 4 am it works better for me. but that is a personal choice. and im not very mobile when im awake late at night, i stay in my room and operate quietly. so me being up later than my folks or way before not an issue for them.

The anxiety is very real. Interestingly, all of my night owls are more prone to anxiety than those who have no trouble getting to sleep. My Aspie daughter was finally able to describe what it was like to think about everything she had to do for school the next day, and I can certainly understand why this would cause problems sleeping. We talked to her psychologist who suggested melatonin, and also a consistent bedtime. We waited until a new school year was about to start, and got her to choose a decent schedule for herself in the evening and morning. With her thought process, she has to be the one in charge of this kind of thing, and it has to be logical to her. So she calculated how much sleep she needed, how long she needed to get ready in the morning, what time she had to leave for school, etc. and figured out a decent bedtime. She is now good about going to bed at a good time (later than she plans to, but consistent) and getting to school on time (same) and the melatonin really seems to help. What still gets in the way is having too much homework for the time she has. It's hard to turn off her mind when she knows she isn't done, and just as hard to get to sleep when she stays up and pushes herself to finish. That will be the next step.

Thanks to all for the input. Here are a few more details…sigh

1. we do not normally buy any junk food, i.e. chips, sodas, etc…we did the gluten free/cassein free stuff for years and since that we have kept a pretty healthy diet on most days (except when we are out at friend's houses, etc…which is not often)
2. we just signed him up for swimming lessons twice a week as I thought he would be extremely tired afterwards…I get tired just watching him swim for 45 minutes constantly…the class ends at 7PM, we have dinner and yet he comes home like nothing…ugh
3. about him functioning during the day? it's a toss up…it is extremely difficult to wake him up…we homeschool so many days I try to wake him up as early as I can, but it is a battle with him not sleeping all night…so I sometimes wake him up anyway and by the afternoon he is knocked out again and we go back to square one or let him sleep in which cuts our day short…ugh

I might try the melatonin and see how that works. I did take away computer, iPad, etc. but he always finds it and I notice because in the morning although he puts it BACK where it was, there is a cord that is left plugged in or something lol

I too am a night person but have to be up during the day to work as well…so I understand he works better during the night, as so do I…but I am afraid that we need to start working on this soon so that when/if I put him in a school we don't have issues or God forbid some crazy person shows up at my home and he is sleeping instead of doing school work…

Thanks to all for the replies…I am going to see which of these ideas can work…

Here is a good place to start for basic sleeping strategies for children: http://www.seattlechildrens.org/pdf/PE1066.pdf

Also, if he's tired during the day, it's important to keep him awake so that he can be tired at night. Naps or sleeping in are a bad idea in the long-run. You can certainly go easy on him with things like chores if he's tired from not sleeping the prior night, but I wouldn't let him nap until his bed-time. This is especially true if napping helps get him out of difficult things like schoolwork.

Regarding his night-time activities: I've seen this sort of thing in a kid that got free access to his favorite toys only at night. So night became this ultra-rewarding period, and sleep became (relatively) unwanted. I would lock up the highly preferred reinforcers. If he must eat or drink, let him have bananas and milk (assuming they're allowed in his diet -both make people sleepy) or water. You can give him access to activities, but make them low-energy, low-concentration, medium-low reward sorts of activities, like books that are easy for him. If he's not sleeping, you want to help him be calm, comfortable and content; not joyful, excessively focused or excited.

Also avoid anything with screens - looking at lights stimulates photo-receptors in the eyes which messes with the sleep-wake cycle. Screen-time (TVs, video games, ipads, etc.) should end at least 1 hour before bed-time.