Real vs self proclaimed "nice guys"

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I pointed this out on another thread, and think it's an important difference, so I wanted to make a thread on it. I see the term "nice guys" bandied about here a lot and how nice guys don't get the girl, etc and it finally came to me what the difference is when guys here complain about nice guys not getting girls.

Nice guy doesn't mean weak guy. It doesn't mean afraid guy. It doesn't mean shy guy. It doesn't mean clueless guy. It doesn't mean guy who was picked on by jocks. It doesn't mean guy who hates more successful guys. While yes, nice guys can be all of those things and so can douchebag guys, it seems to me that a lot of guys feel that rather than work on their deficits, they can just rename them "nice guy traits" and use that to rail against the girls who won't go out with them.

An actual nice guy isn't forced into being one by other circumstances, he chooses to be one. An actual nice guy doesn't walk away from the obnoxious drunk in the bar because he knows he will get hurt, he walks away because it's the right thing to do. An actual nice guy takes a girl out for dinner and pays for it because he was the one who invited her and that's the polite thing to do and not because he wants her to think he's nice so she will put out at the end of the evening. An actual nice guy doesn't automatically hate any guy who is a jock, or successful, or better looking, or smoother, etc. An actual nice guy doesn't go out to show off his "niceness" to a girl in hopes that it will lure her into his lair. An actual nice guy tries to understand what other people are going through and feeling and doesn't just assume things and use them to grind that axe he's been grinding for the last 20 years.

And, an actual nice guy never thinks that a relationship didn't work because he was nice. He thinks it didn't work because they weren't compatable. A nice guy doesn't blame others successes for his failures.

That is the difference. So, before anybody starts in on the "I'm a nice guy so girls don't like me", take a long hard look at why you think you are a nice guy. What makes you a nice guy. What makes other guys not nice guys. I'd bet cash money that none of the WP nice guys would ever admit that actual nice guys are nice guys.

Nice guys choose to be nice. They aren't nice by default because they can't not be nice.

I haven't started dating or anything yet, but thanks for this. I am guilty, or know I would be, of several of the pseudo-nice guy things you mentioned. Fortunately I have time to work on it.

I think the biggest key is the attitude as mentioned obviously. But think about it a little more:

Does the genuine nice guy complain about his circumstances and try to get attention for it?

Well I never knew I was a nice guy until I was told by one of my fellow students that I was a true gentleman, this is the slightly more old fashioned term for a nice guy. I like to think that I live up to the standard of the "gentleman".

The idea of the gentleman is a man who behaves himself in a moral way at all times, and does the right thing for no reason other than the simple joy of doing the right thing.

Wow! Other than the bad temper I have, and a few quirks I also have, I really am the "nice guy"! But, I still have a lot of work to do. The first thing is to learn to clean more efficiently, and the second thing is to learn how to cook dinners. That one is very difficult for me, for it is overwhelming. Where the hell do I start? Reading a cookbook doesn't work, because I get hit with all of this terminology that I don't know the meaning of and some of the ingredients - I've never knew they existed, nor do I know where to find them when hopefully they are in a grocery store...lol Oops, this might sound like a rant, but it is not. Maybe youtube might help...

The third and most important thing is to get off of working disability. That will take about 3 years I hope, when I have enough math skills to become an instructional assistant at the local junior college. As of now, I still work that part time job, and get disability - which seems to be a major turn off for most women. Still, it is better than nothing.

A fourth thing is to learn how to defend myself physically and socially. I admit that I am a terrible fighter and would walk away from a fight for fear, but if I learn a little then the right moral thing to do is to NOT fight in the first place. Defend the woman, and try to show the opposer that it is pointless to fight, as bones will break, and damage will be done. Perhaps when I can afford it, akidio lessons would prove worthwhile. Women, there are actual nice guys out there; don't let the wannabes fool you. Get to know them, and don't fall for their tricks. A nice guy offers no tricks, but just love, company and support. I know I will get trolled for this, but at least I'm honest and am trying to help here. I am not an "alpha male", nor do I care to be. The right lover will love you for you. Period.

You don't have to cook and clean to be a nice guy. I've known plenty of real nice guys whose apartments could be condemned for the way it was kept and who ate take out all the time. Also, don't worry about disability. That has nothing to do with being nice or not being nice. The defending yourself physically thing is iffy, because most girls I know want a guy who could, if need be, protect them, but the fact that you are willing to try it even knowing that you could lose, is what makes a nice guy a nice guy. It's the fact that the guy would actually stand up for the girl, or himself, or his friend, or a stranger who needed it, even knowing that he would probably get his ass kicked, is what makes him a nice guy. And not standing up for them because he wants to show how much of a nice guy he is, but because it's the right thing to do.

Now, I know that hearing "right thing to do" from me seems like hearing "welcome to heaven" from Satan, but still. I do know right from wrong and so do most people.

My whole point was that an actual nice guy doesn't walk around saying "I can't get dates because I'm a nice guy and don't beat up on girls or cheat on them". There is more to it than that. Doing as*hole things to women doesn't cross his mind really. Thats a line he doesn't step over. Could he do it? Sure he could. Would he do it? Not in a million years, because he shouldn't. And he doesn't see the fact that he doesn't do certain bad things to girls as a reason they should go out with him. He has more than just "I won't hit you or give you the clap" as his good points.

Do you see what I'm saying?

I'm glad that some guys are actually getting what I'm saying here. It's important and it can really help.

Of course there will be one or two who will point out my life and my choices to me and ask who am I to tell them they aren't actual nice guys, but just because I made the choices I made doesn't mean I didn't know the alternatives or know what else was out there. And I've dated my share of actual nice guys, and one or two self proclaimed nice guys. So I do know the difference.

Glad I'm not getting the cyber beat down that I was afraid might happen. I do hope this helps.

I think there are a lot of genuine nice guys who still fail miserably with women. I think a lot of them complain not so much about a relationship not working, but for being rejected by so many women who seem to choose men who abuse them.

I don't know if I'm a nice guy or not, so don't assume I believe myself to be one. But when I see some of these posts, it's almost like there is some strange desire by a lot of women and some men to dump on "nice guys," like trying to blame them for all their failings rather than trying to sympathize or at least hear them out. It's almost like the code of conduct is to shoot down any complaining nice guy, even before he complains.

And when I read posts by women who biitch and moan about their as*hole husbands, the OP here included, it makes me wonder what the true agenda behind these anti-nice guy posts actually is.

Interesting read: http://whiskeys-place.blogspot.com/2011 ... s-and.html

Nice does not equal polite.

When a fake nice guy says that he is nice, what he means is that he is polite. He is following "all the rules" and is frustrated because he is not getting what he wanted. This is manipulation, not being nice.

Also, I have never seen anyone want to hang out with another person because that person was nice. That is not how it works. We hang out with people we enjoy spending time with--people who we find interesting or fun.

For me, being nice is being thoughtful, considerate, giving without expectation of return, giving without hidden motives.

By the way, I know I am not a nice guy (at least not when it comes to romantic relationships). I can be nice in every other area of my life, but I am very selfish and demanding and insecure once I get into an intimate relationship with a woman. I have no empathy and no desire to understand where she is coming from. I throw tantrums when I don't get my way.

But I can spit game (the "nice guy" game of complements, attention, favors, gifts, pretending to be interested, pretending to care). I care but only because I have a hidden agenda, so who do I care about? Me or her?).

I have to be real careful about helping women. Otherwise, I'll fall back into the nice guy syndrome. It's all about motives. If I am really attracted to a woman, I have to back off and not play the hero. I also can't date a woman who I feel sorry for. That puts me in a position to play the hero and then play the martyr when she doesn't thank me for my "niceness" by loving me forever.

Last edited by em_tsuj on 28 Feb 2014, 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yep, you are one of those self professed nice guys. "I won't hit you, so why won't you love me?????" As if it were that simple.

And yes, my husband is an as*hole, but he's not a jock, he's somewhat of an alpha male (oh dear gods, shudder now) and he's gotten douchebaggy over the course of our marriage. So what? It works for us. I do love him more than anything but my kids, and I'd stick by him through anything, no matter what some wierd hormonal urges tell me.

Go on ahead and try and slice my theory to pieces, of course you will. You were rejected so therefore you were a nice guy, my marriage has some problems so therefore marriage sucks, etc, etc etc. It's an excuse to not try it on your own cause you are afraid of getting hurt.

And you admit it, so at least you are on your way to figuring out how not to be a basement dweller! I give you many kudos for that.

so just a few things.
1. what if its both? I don't like violence(I'm capable of it if pushed into a corner or to defend another), but I don't like getting hurt. I avoid risky behaviors that will likely cause that. Such as my friends jumping off a house onto a trampoline. I keep aware of my surroundings and avoid unnecessary conflict.

2. I do so cause its what society says men are suppose to, though I also enjoy making her happy so if taking a girl out for dinner does so and i can afford it sure. Aren't we in a age though were it could be split, each pays for themselves? Certainly I'll still bring a rose those( attempt to make them smile and show that I'm find them interesting and attractive. Pink rose. yeah i did research into it, didn't want to portray the wrong thing and scare them away with a red rose.)

3.how do you know about my lair ? It was built in secret.

4. This can be different, some have rejected me cause we aren't compatible and they explian it, however some few have done it cause I'm nice(ie non violent, not aggressive, so no confident.) most are cause of looks and no full time job. The one girl i got the closet too, lied so much I'll never know the real reason, still talk to her and she still hurts me time to time.


as for jocks, I don't hate them, but we don't get along either. just different interests, and most of them are aggressive(sports are aggressive) and I'm not.

Guess i need to move my lair >.>

for cooking start out by using the box stuff, its cheaper too, and move on to the scratch stuff. That's what I'm doing, but then again i love cooking. started making pancakes from baking mix instead of the just ad water and shake stuff or the frozen ones. and umm they filling .

Edit: It also helped i grew up with a mom that cooked and taught me some stuff.

Last edited by sly279 on 28 Feb 2014, 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am starting to see the women's point of view. Coming here helps a lot. It is the only place I know of where women will explain this stuff.

Bold doesn't work for me anymore, so I'm going to juts quote you and then answer you here. I have confidence you can figure out which statement I am answering.

I don't like violence either, although I'm good at it. Unfortunately I'm good at it because I had to be. I do avoid risky stuff as well. But the thing about walking away from the obnoxious guy at the bar is more about avoiding the violence than it is about "Oh God, she will see that he can kick my ass, so I'll make a show of being Mr Pacifist" which some actually, unfortunately, do do. Also, no trampolines! My youngest son broke his arm on one. You can break your neck! Are people just stupid doing that, jumping off a house onto it or are they drinking tequila or are they just rednecks? I don't know, but I wouldn't do that without tequila. Although it does kinda look fun.

The dinner thing, well this goes across all gender lines ok? You invite somebody out for dinner and you pay, unless you tell them first "dutch treat". I recently took my best friend out for dinner at the Mexican place and then she took me out for lunch at the Chinese place. When I invited her, I knew without a doubt that I paid. She knew when she invited me, without a doubt, she paid. And a date is where you take the girl out and pay for what yall do. You are showing her your ability to provide, in a courting way, so to speak. As in "If I marry you, I can provide for you, things like General Tso's chicken and all."

The lair, well Batman told me. Don't you ever tell this in public but me and Christian Bale are a THING ok? I love him. And you know what? He actually IS Batman! Shhhhh now. Although sometimes he's the guy in the Prestige and occasionally, on kinky nights, the guy from American Psycho, but usually he's Batman and HE TOLD ME! So hush your mouth about that!

The thing about being friends with jocks and other guys, see? You don't hold it against them. You are normal.

And move your lair, Batman will find it! Don't make me call all the Superfriends!

But, you get it. You do. I so think you do. Thank you for getting it.

b*****s lie. Especially when we break up. The "It's not you, it's me" line came from us ok? Some women truly are b*****s though, and not the good kinda b***h like I am. We just want to get it over with. No, you do not have to be aggressive, unless of course both of you were mugged together on a street and you put your hands over your head, curled up in the fetal position and screamed "SPOON SPOON SPOON" or something else stupid like that. I don't know about your looks, post a pic. The job thing, well yeah that kinda gets girls when they are getting with you, cause it's a common thing for some guys to just get a girl and expect her to support him. Especially in the white trash faction that I'm in.

Can you please reformat this so I can answer it? I tried this way and it was too confusing to me. And why does bold work for you, but not for me, within quotes?