WP a liberal forum?

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It seems to me with all the conservative, christian, right hate on here that The wrong planet is more geared or at least filled with left leaning democrat liberals..

makes me feel frustrated and kinda afraid to come on. do you guys realize conservatives are human beings. not evil kkk underground plotting to destroy the world super villains. The democrats have a bunch of bad stuff wrong with them too. Both parties are humans. they will have evil people but most are likely good kind people. Why must we as a nation spend so much time hating each other. There are nations out there full of millions of people who want nothing more then to kill us all and yet we sit and hate and threaten each other.

I'm not even a conservative, I'm probably just a middle ground person. though most due to one issue would place me on the right. I just get frustrated with all this hate towards one party. I mean like a good part of our population is in that party and are good natured Americans.


on a side note, I wonder if it would be possible to have a firearms sub forum. I don't know who to ask. Its my main interest and I'd love to be able to talk to the other 3 aspie gun owners about my interest. The other one videogames is dominated by pc games here it seems.

I would have said a conservative sub section but I don't fit in with them either.

for the record I don't really mind liberals as long as they leave my rights alone. I agree with them on a lot of topics. I don't rant on them though. There are some democrat politicians I don't like though.

Yeah,it seem like that.

Hi sly, don't feel afraid to come on.

Just come up with better arguments that are factually accurate, then maybe people will agree with you more.

theres a difference between being oppressed and being disagreed with. When I see an opinion I disagree with I will make a post so that people reading will see both sides of the issue (and not all that often either).

I know most conservatives are good people you have a real knack for electing as*holes to represent you. We elect as*holes too but at least they have the tact to hide it instead of making the craziest s**t they can think up their primary platform.

I don't mind people disagreeing with me, its all the hatred toward conservatives threads that is getting to me. Its like hating all arabs cause some did terror attacks. I don't hate all liberals cause a lot of them are anti gun. Well I don't hate. But i don't like the strong anti gun ones, but I try my best not to throw all democrats under the bus with them. to support my side all i'd have to do is go to the fbi's or harvards website, or the cdc. . I'm not trying to. I get their are anti gun people I understand their logic even if its not really logic(yes they piss me off sometimes) I just get upset at being thrown under a bus cause of a party or political views marked under a party. Its like black people saying I'm racist cause I'm white. Starts to get to me and I think well F*** maybe I should just be those things if I'm going get labeled them no mater what. now do this to millions of people and one can start to see how the distrust, hatred and decided our nation is becoming. like the dr souse book about the creatures where one has stars and the others don't. They hated each other off of a star on the belly not off of who each creature was as a person.

a conservative politician did this, so all conservatives are that.
a liberal politician did this, so all liberals are that.

the key in both of those is "one" person did something.

I think I can safely presume not all liberals are like senator Feinstein. I mean shes fine with the nsa spying on the public but against them when it turned out they spied on here too.

So I hate hate, and I hate blanketing millions of people. neither side can know what the other is like or doing, they aren't in it. This is why there are more independents and undecided people in this nation. the Two party system is turning us against each other based not on facts but on just hatred. both sides want a better stronger USA.

and no no matter the argument people dead set on their opinion will never agree with you. This I have learned. It far better to move on and enjoy life then waste it fighting to the death with neither side able to win. Both sides claim facts, both sides can "disprove them" both sides are set. those who will decide are the people in the middle and to use the republican vs democrat war just looks pointlessly bloody. If I had my way I'd ban both parties. people would run off merit and policies chosen by their own. all Americans would be allow to vote for any of those people.

You must not pay attention to some of the things people say about Obama (no, I did not vote for him, either time) but Conservatives are some of the most *#@& creatures in politics (especially Tea Party Conservatives) It seems as though NOTHING is out of bounds to them. The distortions, incendiary, provocative, disrespectful rhetoric. Absolutely no respect for the office of POTUS. And you talk about "hatred" toward Conservative. Conservatives, from my perspective, start off immediately with rhetoric designed to be threatening, intimidating and dehumanizing. If you want to see respect from me, then don't make references to Liberals that would insinuate we are beneath you, weak, spineless, lazy, freeloading "takers". Stop misrepresenting people who are on welfare, SNAP and other government assistance programs as if they are stealing from you. If you want to characterize a whole group of people by the actions of a few, and use that rhetoric to turn people against each other and then turn around and tell me that you are decent, God fearing, Christian blah, blah, blah, I am going to give it right back to you. The problem is, you expect Liberals to just sit and take the crap Conservatives bow into society because you view us as "weak and wimpy" because we actually believe in the principles that you try to tell us you stand for as far as caring about humanity. When we behave the same way Conservatives behave we are "haters."

Just because we may be soft spoken and mild mannered in appearance and demeanor does not mean we have to sit back and allow you to walk all over us. Your side of the coin wants to provoke and insult everyone in the world in order to demonstrate your "strength,." You use rhetoric that incites the people you refer to as enemies in order to create a situation that you can use to destroy this country just so you can blame the President for the things that your party is responsible for. Tea Party Conservatives would burn this country to the ground and start all over just to prove a point. You cannot peacefully co-exist with anyone. Everything has to be YOUR way. No compromise, no negotiation. Everything has to be a demonstration of power and strength to you. I cannot even "follow" a topic with Conservatives because you do not know or understand how to use words in any way other than to impose your ideology, and your religion.

This is my country every bit as much as it is your, even if I don't wave a flag in your face. And just because I don't personally need or care about guns dos not mean I want to "take away your right to own guns, yet Conservatives use these lies about Liberals wanting to "take away your 2nd Amendment rights," in order to scare people into believing your propaganda.

Now if I were one of your colleagues trying to make the same point about Liberals, I can guarantee you that the rhetoric would be deliberately and cunningly inflammatory and don't dare a Liberal use the same tone or we are being "divisive and hateful" for using the exact tone that Conservatives are known for the world over>

I am saying my piece and will not follow this topic further because I know exactly from experience the kind of deceitful denial and finger wagging gang bang I am going to get for this response. And I can guarantee that very few Liberals are going to step up and agree with what I say here. You have a blinder over your eyes if you think Liberals are being unfair on WP. We are not nearly as vociferous in our opinions as far right Conservatives are. It may not be in WP, but I routinely receive internet death threats (which, of course, are meaningless to you, after all, its just the internet) for merely standing behind a President I did not even vote for when I see the slander, bigotry and hatefulness directed toward him.

Thank you very much, I love you too. Have a wonderful day.

Historically, conservative has meant maintaining traditional values and institutions. A contradiction arises in modern conservative politics when the word conservative becomes associated with unregulated capitalism, which is, by its nature, opposed to the maintenance of traditional values and institutions where they lessen profit. A true conservative would want the market to be heavily regulated to make sure that the expedience of profit does not eliminate that which is worth preserving in our institutions. It tells you a lot that most "conservatives" call for the opposite.

U.S "Conservatism" is not about conservatism, it's about dressing up a corporatist agenda in a kind of hillbilly identity politics. The culture that U.S conservatives struggle for is a mirage invented by marketing teams.

Last edited by Stannis on 22 Mar 2014, 5:36 pm, edited 9 times in total.

Never thought of PPR as a super-progressive forum (as any thread about feminism will attest to), but then again I'm an actual social democrat so I am left of most American reform liberals.

Ahem...

1. WrongPlanet is a private website with a set of rules established by the site owner (Alex Plank).
Among these site rules there is a category for unacceptable content, in which a prohibition against racist, sexist, and homophobic language has been established.

While the vast majority of "conservative" (a generally accepted definition of the term escapes me) members on WrongPlanet never violate this rule, *among* members violating the above rules, self-identified conservatives tend to be overrepresented.

2. The word "liberal" and "conservative" has different meanings depending on what side of the Atlantic you are on.
In some instances, the meanings are completely opposite. WrongPlanet is an international site with many non-US members (including a non-US majority in the Moderator group, BTW), yet some US posters frequently tend to impose the political labels of the United States on general political debates on this website. As a result, asking if WrongPlanet is a "liberal forum" actually makes very little sense.

3. US conservatism is on the losing side of history.
The world is changing, and the beliefs held by US conservatives are becoming increasingly less palatable, both on an international level and in the US. The developed world is becoming increasingly Pro-LGBT, Pro-Choice, Pro-evolution, Pro-climate change, and many US conservatives are not only holding on to increasingly unpopular views on these issues; some are becoming even more hostile towards these issues, and they are making them even more important in their political campaigns. It is only natural to expect that such a suicidal political approach will result in increasing resentment from the general community, both in real life and online.

Alex doesn't directly monitor the forums with any consistency, though. What exactly constitutes "racist, sexist, and homophobic language" is more of a fluid thing inconsistently interpreted among mods. "Homophobic language" could mean nothing more than someone saying "I believe homosexuality is immoral," or "I believe homosexuality is harmful to society." I've even been told by a mod that even if a discussion of religion directly deals with the topic of homosexuality being wrong we aren't allowed to discuss it. OK, fine by me…so why is it fair for someone to rail against Christianity/Bible/etc. if Christians aren't allowed to even defend the position being attacked? The TOS also says that users cannot provoke other users, so if this is the issue then the topic shouldn't even be brought up in the first place. The fact that this does happen from time to time with Christians barred by TOS from making counterarguments would make it appear that the site is left-leaning and unfriendly towards conservative viewpoints.

Personally, I don't really care that much about the issue of homosexuality and don't care to whine about it. I'm not gay, and those who are really can do pretty much whatever they want. I only pick on that topic because it HAS been used here to attack Christianity and I've gotten official warnings for participating in similar discussions. So if it isn't open for discussion, I won't discuss it; but it's equally wrong for someone holding the opposing viewpoint to mine to indiscriminately rant about the evils of Christianity in relation to homosexuality while the Christian perspective is silenced. It's provocative and, dare I say it, trollish for someone to bring it up if it can't be discussed.

To be fair, though, Christianity isn't even remotely under attack the way it was a little over two years ago.

PPR pretty much covers the entire spectrum of political beliefs I think, I don't believe we are much different than anybody else. As said, liberal/conservative and right/left are pretty warped and confused terms, it's best not to try to label each other like that and just discuss the topic at hand. You'll be surprised by how much you actually have in common with people that identify differently than you.

1. It's a spectrum disorder.

2. I was a liberal before I became a conservative.

What changed? I woke up and realized most of the stuff I believed were LIES. All the promises, all the "this is what life is like" that proved to be false, all of the social justice BS that was supposed to be there fore me and really was not nor ever was there for me...these things made me realize that I subscribed to a political ideology which was greatly askew with how REALITY operated.

At best, you could say they were too idealistic...stating the hope of a utopia as how thing actually are, but frankly, I see now that they love to fill people up with false hope so they are bitter and angry and demanding that the world is forced into a shape it will never hold without severe political oppression of anything that does not fit the ideology.

Not that conservatives aren't guilty of doing the same things....people with an agenda don't tend to play fair or honest, but the ideal of self-reliance, keeping government small and out of people's lives, and responsible economic policy are all proven to be beneficial to society in the long run.

Life isn't fair. You can't make it fair by passing or enforcing more and more laws to make it the way you want it to be. A big part of survival is adaptation to your surroundings. A utopia requires unlimited cheap energy and unlimited resources. We're not going to have that anytime soon, so a political ideology focused on creating a utopia rather than trying to do the best we can with what we have for the greatest number of people simply isn't going to work.

It's not suicidal though. Hate dogma's are historically very successful, leading to some of the most powerful expansionist states of all time (though not all expansionist states use hate-dogma). "Conservatives" like Vladimir Putin create extremely loyal voter bases by appealing to people's fears and using religious institutions to incite the populous to self-enforce the hate-dogma. Picking out homosexuality is a great tactic for these people because you can accuse literally anyone of being from that powerless subclass and the mere accusation, not requiring proof, can result in the destruction of their economic and political assets or even their death. It's a much stronger fear to play on because it has religious precedent and wider application than racial divisions (i.e. birthers in the US.) Putin is doing the same thing that other hate-dogma driven parties do, military expansionism. Taking Crimea is no different than invading Iraq to attempt to emplace a puppet government or invading Poland: It demonstrates "competency" through marital force.

Putin keeps getting re-elected. While I would like to say its just because the elections are rigged thats not true: Hes extremely popular. Even among Americans they look at his propaganda and are legitimately impressed. I had thought that some of my friends were being ironic when they said they would like a leader like Putin but they were dead serious.

OP, when you say that you are a "conservative," understand that is what a liberal sees. Gun rights is a special interest driven political field and the rank and file are ambivalent, snap/socialized healthcare are important to us but that is largely an ideological difference: conservatives usually view taxes and charity separately, liberals see taxes as money put towards the greater good, i.e. all taxes are charitable. The individual issues are not what liberals are concerned about: it's how conservative values are enforce and executed. Conservative states like the UAE, Russia, etc create very rigid "mechanical" social structures where social norms are determined by the party, Liberals prefer "organic" social structures that are determined by the interactions among individuals. Now, as a conservative "individual" you might say that people should be allowed to do what they please and be "free," but the party you support does not reflect that view. Freedom among social conservatives means freedom to act in a predetermined way, and thus have clear expectations to draw on, whereas liberal social structures are "chaotic" and don't have a central social institution like the church. I understand part of your complaint is that because your party behaves one way, you are characterized by them rather than as an individual but understand that individuals are irrelevant to political discussions unless they are important for determining political policy. I doubt that you are secretly a Koch or an elected official: you just want to be able to hunt and target shoot without being harassed or whatever other U.S. conservative party value appeals to you. But that does not abdicate you from responsibility for supporting your parties other actions with your vote.

Cognitive dissonance between an individuals party affiliation and the consequences of that affiliation is pretty common. A "friend" of mine from Tunisia told me that Hamas was a charity providing food to the people of Palestine. I countered that it was in exchange for their sons and daughters detonating themselves in marketplaces but she complained that I shouldn't bring that up and that really they were just a charity [with a personality problem] and I was a bad person for opposing them. so to compare that to U.S. conservatism you can support the party because you want to protect your gun rights, but your party also protects companies like freedom industries after their coal-cleaner spill at the expense of the actually people who live there. Your party passes laws that re-legalize jim crow laws on a regular basis (Arizona's anti-gay discrimination law e.g. whiles/coloreds only becomes straights/gays only). Your party quietly raises taxes on food and sundries while loudly lowering taxes on third tier market derivatives only accessible to market professionals with multimillion dollar accounts and proclaiming that everyone will benefit. Your party wants to establish a theocracy which worldwide has disastrous results (by our standards) resulting in mechanical (i.e. imposed) construction of society rather than one in which people are free to choose their actions. So when you say that you are a conservative, the values you actually care about are lost in the consequences of your vote.

Lib-dems have to deal with the same thing: Yes freedom industries needs to be closed because it destroyed the environment and hurt the people... but what about the employees who rely on the wages? Guns are dangerous and hundreds of people are dying from gun violence and we need to restrict access to them... but what about people with legitimate uses for them, what about sustainable hunting (a term too many dems are unfamiliar with), what about the 2nd amendment??? f**k... Obama is not as great as we hoped. Is standardized testing even ours, why is this happening? etc etc. I'm sure you have plenty to add to this list. But I understand that I am responsible for Obama, Rham Emanual, My senators, reps etc. I voted for these people and everything the do after that is partially my fault. So when conservatives tell me to stop bringing up George Bush and Dick Cheney it makes me furious.

I think the biggest difference between libs and cons is that liberals view a lot of their keep issues as being essential in a fundamental almost sensationalist way: If we don't protect the environment THE WORLD WILL BE DESTROYED, if we don't protect equal rights THERE IS NO EQUALITY, GUNS KILL PEOPLE, If we don't provide healthcare PEOPLE LIVES ARE RUINED AND THEY WILL DIE IN THE STREETS, etc etc. To us conservative values seem almost petty. Lower taxes BECAUSE WE DON'T LIKE PAYING THEM, corporations should be unrestricted BECAUSE THEY FIND IT INCONVENIENT AND CHINA's DOING IT!! ! gays should be excluded from society BECAUSE BUTSEX IS ICKY (and men are terrified of being treated the way they treat women), rape is a myth and abortion is a sin BECAUSE ONLY SLUTS EXPERIENCE THOSE THINGS. I know I'm kind of marginalizing what are possibly your views, but if I thought they were important I would be a conservative! IDK. f**k politics.

The math/science ASD people seem underrepresented on WP.

We could be arguing about...

- whether math exists or not ?
- PI the irrational number has an existential meaning? How can something exist in the real world, if it is "irrational" i.e., never ends ?
- Do these ASD "genius" people who can recite PI to many decimal places prove that PI does exist, because theoretically a large enough brain can hold an infinite answer?
- interpretations of QM probability outcomes
-What do you think Euclid (requirement of the formal proof) vs modern mathematic education of "just trust me on this"?
-Are QM computers fake ?

Etc, Etc, Etc ...

Instead .. on WP you see

-Evil Republicans blah blah blah ...

There is a subforum for that:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/forum1.html

Problem solved.