Worried b/c my 11-yr old has a negative self-image

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My son, who is 11, was recently diagnosed with Asperger's. I worry because he seems completely unwilling to take responsibility for himself; he would rather complain than solve the problem he is complaining about. For example, he will say that he's soooooo thirsty, but when I point him in the direction of the refrigerator and tell him to help himself, he says he is too tired to walk there. Then he spends the next half hour complaining about how thirsty he is. He'll also complain of being bored, but any suggestion I make is greeted with, 'that doesn't interest me.' And then he'll spend the next half hour saying, 'What should I do?' to which I reply, 'draw, read, etc.' then he'll say he doesn't want to do those things, then he'll say, 'What should I do?' again and on and on and on until I get so fed up I tell him to go to his room to complain because at least then I won't have to listen to it.

He has a negative self-image and recently started saying he would be better off dead, because a person as horrible as he is doesn't deserve to live. I ask him why he feels that way, and he brings up things he did as a four year old, like telling another child their drawing of a cat did not in fact look like a cat. I worry that part of his negative self-image stems from me, because I worry so much about his willingness to take care of himself in the world (and his seeming unwillingness to do things for himself) that I am often correcting him or telling him that, while it's perfectly normal to feel that he would rather not take the time to go get himself a drink (or walk the dog or take out the garbage or take a shower), those are his responsibilities, and doing those things are the ways in which he earns his privileges (video games, etc.).

I also tell him that no one particularly likes doing chores, but they need to be done, so he needs to find a way to do them regardless of how he feels at a particular moment. Then he goes off on a tangent saying he wishes he was dead, why don't I give him a knife so he can stab himself, etc., etc., because only a horrible person who doesn't deserve to live would not want to do the jobs for which they are responsible. I tell him that feelings are not facts, and that he is a very good, smart, lovable person (which I'm sure he feels I'm lying about because if I really did think that, why would I be correcting him all the time?). Then he gets incredibly frustrated and punches himself in the leg or otherwise hurts himself (mildly) to 'punish' himself for being such a bad person.

This morning he was bored and refusing any of my suggestions. As typically happens, he started getting more and more frustrated, and said he hates himself and that for the last couple of weeks he's been hearing voices saying 'murder' and 'kill' in his head throughout the day. Of course that scared the $%$# out of me, but I tried to remain nonchalant, and said I was glad he'd told me, and asked whether the voices were telling him to hurt anyone in particular, and he said 'No, I just hear the words.' My sense is that he is feeling powerless and the voices are the result of the anger he feels. I asked him why he thinks he feels that way, and whether there is anything in particular that is bothering him, and he said, 'I don't know.'

He said he also had a nightmare last night in which I forced him to kill our dog with a gun because the dog was making too much noise when we were hiding from the Nazis (he read 'Anne Frank' last year in school.). He also said he has dreams in which I destroy the art he so painstakingly creates, so clearly, he's developing some 'mother' issues, and I am so sorry for the role I am clearly playing in that. So many of our interactions these days seem to be negative - he can't stop complaining (while at the same time refusing to do anything about the things he's complaining about), and I can't seem to shut up about how he 'should' be behaving, which can't feel very good to him, and must feel like I don't truly accept him or love him as he is.

Anyway, in the end, I suggested he and I take the dog for a walk together, because a change of scenery can sometimes make you feel better and that we could walk to the Starbucks a few blocks away but he said he doesn't like being around people and that he would rather stay home. After I insisted (and threatened to take away his video game privileges for the day because it was his job to walk the dog and he himself needed a change of scenery), he finally said he would go alone. He did, and when he came back, he was chipper and happy and the black cloud had passed.

I am going to ask his paediatrician for a referral to a psychiatrist - I'm wondering if an antidepressant might help take the edge off, or give him a little bit of space in which he can feel like he has some control over his responses to his feelings. We've tried cognitive behavioural therapy (for his OCD) in the past, but the therapist said he couldn't work with him anymore because my son appears to have no insight into his motivations or the thoughts that precede his negative emotions.

Is feeling like you have no control over your feelings or how to cope with your feelings common in kids with Asperger's? Is having little insight into one's emotions typical? I'm at a loss as to how to help him - I hate knowing he feels so badly about himself, but at the same time, I am very frustrated that he seems completely unwilling to try to do anything to 'change the channel' when he gets in one of his moods. Thanks for listening.

Hugs and sympathy. Not fun.

I don't think there's such a thing as an 11-year-old Aspie with positive self-esteem. Realistically, I just don't.

An 11-year-old Aspie's life is one long sequence of "Don't do that" and "Don't say that" and "You're really weird" and "Nobody likes you" and "TALK. ABOUT. SOMETHING. ELSE."

If we're going to be realistic, it really can't be anything else. You can't exactly let an 11-year-old Aspie go about thinking that their behaviors and reactions are appropriate-- they'll never learn. I never would have learned-- and I wouldn't be an 11-year-old Aspie again if someone held a gun to my head and told me to do it or die. Because it SUCKED.

I'm sure all the people raising me felt the same way.

I don't have any advice to give you, really. Just sympathy.

You might prioritize-- what is really important to work on, and in what ways can you afford to give the kid some space and let it be?? What ways can you say, "Everybody makes mistakes, Kiddo. It's OK." "I like you, Kiddo, quirks and annoying behaviors and all." That's probably what saved my skin-- except my grandma, nobody really let me get away with really egregious behaviors, but they did let the small stuff slide (at home anyway), and they were always really, really clear about liking (as distinct from loving-- OF COURSE you love your kid, but people want someone to actually LIKE them too) me even with all the rough edges (OK, that's the understatement of they year) that needed sanding off if I was going to survive as an adult.

OP - I understand how difficult your situation is. I was a lot like your son, when I was 11. It was a very difficult time for me.

So, generally (both now and when I was younger), I am most content (I would never, ever claim to be ?happy?) when my mind is actively occupied, hyper focusing on something that I find useful or important. Or, as sharkattack (another WP member) once wrote: "an occupied mind is a happy mind".

If your son is any way similar, then the key is to help your son discover that ?thing? which he is interested in hyper focusing on. I had several at that age including: Star Trek, Model Rockets, Astronomy, Magic and Computers.

My parents (well, mostly my Mom) then set up a reward system, based upon those interests (e.g. if I did my chores, my Mom would take me to the store to buy another Model Rocket). This taught me some important rules about how life works.

IMO - Ultimately, it's important to get your son exposed to enough things, so he discovers an interest which can become his vocation. For me, it was computers/software (which is ideal for hyper focusing). And, I have been working in this area my entire adult life.

Please don't feel you are helpless. You clearly want to help your son, and there are many people and many ideas that may help. The parenting forum here is very good. If there are any autism resources, or perhaps the person who diagnosed him could be a resource, you might be able to find a therapist with experience working with kids on the spectrum. Or even a therapist with experience working with younger children might be more helpful. Difficulty understanding, recognizing, and talking about feelings is extremely common in kids even those without autism. And it's normal for kids on the spectrum not to be good at that.

When my kids legitimately feel bad, or unable to manage something, it's easier for them to be difficult than directly express the problem. It's not even an Aspie thing, just a kid thing. Well, maybe anyone can do this. Sometimes all I can do is be sympathetic things are hard. Often that's not enough. Other times, it is just what's needed, and they brighten up. Either way, as he's refusing to let you solve problems, I think all you can do is try agreeing that things are difficult for him, life is boring at times, he has a lot of responsibilities, and things are tiring. If you agree with sincere compassion, he may even start arguing with you that things are not so bad.

Much of this is familiar to me with regards to my 12 yr old daughter. The responsibility, low self esteem, negative thoughts and so on. It's not just hard as I'm sure you find it distressing. I can't give you much advice as we are still trying to figure things out too.

It does sound like he's talking to you and that is a good thing and it's made things a little better our end. My daughter is apathetic with activities also but we are persevering as finding something she likes will be a big positive. We are currently looking to seen if she will enjoy archery. She'd also loves the SIMS so she will get the new game this week but we will limit her time on it as she needs other stimulation, but it brings in a positive for her.

I personally think you are right to teach responsibility as he has to live in the real world. I would suggest not going for everything at once but pick two or three things initially, wins where he will see the benefit also. I'd say pick your battles as if will reduce conflict and may be make him more receptive to things. Also be clear you're cool with who he is, warts and all. My daughter said to me 'I'm weird', to which I replied 'yep, we are all weird in some way, it is fine be proud of who you are'.

I'm in the UK and the kids school is great for us and really engaged. So If you think you can I'd also suggest working with the school so there is consistency in approach. I know schools differ wildly so you may not feel you can.

That all said, you are already doing the most important thing and being there. You are talking to him and not burying your head in the sand. It's a tough age for any kid let alone one with ASD. Socially things will be in flux as his peers change and grow. My ASD son changed all his friends at that age and has done so again at 15. First time he found it tough but second time around it was very much on his terms. I'm sure your son will work through it and your continued support gives him the best chance of that.

Your son sounds like a carbon copy of me at age 11. Everything you said was "been there, done that" (as the kid in the equation, at least). Nothing in particular really alarmed me, except: "He also said he has dreams in which I destroy the art he so painstakingly creates". Let me ask you: Have you ever destroyed or thrown away his drawings/crafts/trinkets, by accident or otherwise? I'm asking because my parents used to that all the time, because to be honest, most of my art stunk. But it caused me to abandon all interest in drawing. It was becoming tedious and stressful to keep my art hidden all the time. Instead, I shifted my interests to more reading-oriented pursuits, such as astronomy. Since they came from encyclopedias, which I knew my parents would never throw away (they hold books in high regard), they were "safe".

Anyway, I'm kind of looking at this through anger glasses, so "back the heck off, and let the kid be" is about as much advice as I can muster, sorry. But that means pick your battles. Choose the things you're dead-set on correcting (such as not swinging his arms while walking, for example), and let the rest take are of itself. His nightmares about you will go away in time.

Yep...A reward system would be great.

You should praise him when he goes to the fridge instead of merely complaining about being thirsty.

You should offer him a small cash allowance for doing his chores.

Maybe he should see a psychotherapist for the "voices" which he hears.

Is he in regular classes?

Does your son know about his diagnosis? Before my 13 year old daughter was diagnosed last year, she felt really down about herself and felt that she should just be locked away in mental institution or locked up in a jail for the way she acted. She said she wanted to behave differently, but her brain wouldn't let her. Since our diagnosis and the acceptance it brought for her with being different, things are much better for her. I also put her on 1 mg of melatonin for sleep because she used to stay up thinking most of the night and 100 mg of 5htp for her anxiety which seems to really help her a lot since she started it about 2 months ago. She also got into the aspergers program in high school, so it helps that she is in daily contact with people she can understand and who understand her.

Also, I forgot to say that my daughter hates going outside too - really she mainly leaves the house for school only because getting her to do groceries or go on outings seems to be torture for her. She went for a 5 day vacation with us out of town in August, but you could tell the anxiety was way up there because she spent a lot of time threatening us and swearing, even on activities she was enjoying. She loves her room and she has a ton of video games that keep her calm.

She really hates doing her chores too and it is like pulling teeth to get her to do them. She is to do the day dishes during the week and she usually wants to do the after supper dishes instead, so giving her a choice helps. And the Saturday chores of cleaning her room and dusting the living room or cleaning the bathroom, I remind her they have to be done or no games, but usually I find a way of motivating her to do them by letting her friend come over once she is done or getting a treat from the store like pop.

She can get on my nerves too when she tells me how hungry or thirsty she is and expects me to run to find her something to eat. The problem was that I started doing it after her diagnosis to try and help her, so she learned to have a tantrum to make me go her what she wanted. Now I let her know she is quite capable of finding herself something to eat and I give her a few choices to pick from. It seems she can't figure it out herself when she is overwhelmed. Sometimes she really does need me to do something for her, like she will be extremely hot in her room, but will be wearing really warm clothing and has her window closed. So I have to force her to put on some shorts and I open the window for her.

Yup, DS was about the same at 11 - at 14 he's doing much better - still has moments, and I wouldn't ever call him actually happy without qualifiers, but I think he's not actively depressed at least most of the time, and is fairly content.

Keep in mind that the deficits like communication skills and/or alexithymia are a big part of the problem: what you describe above sounds like a kid who is struggling to both figure out and to communicate what his needs are. DS used to do this: he would feel bad, and working under the assumption that a "bad" feeling has to be attached to something, would start finding things to attach it to: hunger, tiredness, homework, what have you. His specialty used to be picking a fight with us just so he could feel justified in being angry and depressed. In other words, if you're going through what we were, your son probably doesn't know how he feels or why.

It took a LOT of detective work on our part to figure out how to handle this - and professionals who specialized in autism helped. DS learning more about his differences and what they meant helped a lot, too. Speech therapy was a big one. Labeling situations that bring up feelings was another: DS didn't process that any little difference in his day would throw him off and make him feel "bad." I started naming that for him. "Today, we're going to the doctor instead of going to school. Because it's different from what you are used to, you might feel weird or bad. Remember, it's because you are out of your routine and that can make you feel like you don't know what's coming next."

Some things I've learned: "Bored" is always much more serious for a person on the spectrum than it is for an NT. It can be code for all kinds of unidentifiable feelings. It can be that he can't frame what he wants to do without having a list of things he doesn't want to do - he needs the prompt.

Another thing to remember is that life can be much harder for a kid on the spectrum than we realize. There are all kinds of things that they struggle with through the day that you might miss. One of the things that I came to realize with DS, watching how he sits on chairs at home (his preferred way to sit is - no kidding - upside-down, head on the floor, feet in the air.) Sitting in a chair the way "normal people" do is excruciatingly difficult for him, and he has to do it all day long at school. So, when he comes home, he wants to be taken care of a little bit, and that can sound whiny and passive.

This is not to say that I'm always able to keep my temper when I've had a tough day and now he wants a nursemaid, but on the days when I can remember that he's working really, really hard, it is a little easier. I still hold him accountable for chores, etc - but my approach on a good day is different, because I know he's put in a hard day of work and is at the end of his rope. I try, on a good day, to frame chores as "someday, you're going to be living on your own, and I want you to practice what you will need to do then."

Take a look through the Parenting Index at the top of the board; I think there are posts about depression and self-harm that may help you. I know we've been there (DS got a lot closer to suicidal language than what you describe before things started to get better.)

I'd say something different about the nightmares-- I honestly doubt that they're due to anything you're doing wrong. It's possible-- my seven-year-old used to have nightmares about T Rexes with my face and voice attacking the playground and eating the children; I stopped viciously demanding that he comply immediately with any demand anyone made of him, and the nightmares went away.

But, like I said, I doubt it. What I figure is more likely, based on what he's describing, is that he's coming into the realization that, no matter how hard it is and no matter how much it hurts, he cannot and will not ever be able to be himself and be accepted. There is nothing you can do that will stop that realization from being excruciating. NOTHING.

You can't take it away, either, unless you want to do him the grave disservice of letting him think there's nothing wrong with him. You can do that, of course. It may make for a happy child and a happy home-- at least, a happy child insofar as you can shelter him from all the other people who will not subscribe to that delusion-- but it will not make for a functional child, or a functional adult.

He is, in essence, coming to the understanding that he is going to have to destroy, at least publically (and everywhere except "alone in his room" is public), a large part of himself if he wants to "be a good boy" and be accepted by a significant minority of his peers. And he's right-- he does have to do that. To him, it looks like even more of himself-- like nothing will be left but the "what people want me to be."

That's going to hurt...

...and YOU are the primary enforcer of that fact, so YOU are the face in the nightmares.

Which sucks. And hurts. And scares the s**t out of you. And I'm soooooooooo sorry about that; I wish I could pour you a nice stiff drink and give you a nice warm hug. Because it sucks, and it hurts, and you have to do it.

Because, if you don't, he becomes that much more likely to spend his adult life alone, miserable, unemployable, and living in your basement.

If it makes you feel any better at all, I PROFOUNDLY wish that I had not grown up with a grandmother who, other than the occasional meltdown, told me that I was beautiful and wonderful and perfect and destined for greatness and kept all my artwork and basically did everything under the sun to make me feel falsely and unreasonably good about myself.

I would have been less of a freak as a tween. I would have less humiliating memories to look back on. I would have adjusted more, sooner, and I would not constantly struggle with liking myself as is versus being someone that other people find likable. It would have been harder then, but it would have been better in the long run.

QUOTE:
He is, in essence, coming to the understanding that he is going to have to destroy, at least publically (and everywhere except "alone in his room" is public), a large part of himself if he wants to "be a good boy" and be accepted by a significant minority of his peers. And he's right-- he does have to do that. To him, it looks like even more of himself-- like nothing will be left but the "what people want me to be." That's going to hurt...
UNQUOTE

This.

He is a lovely, sweet, smart, talented boy who has a few quirks that NTs will likely find annoying. The fact that he wants to spend 60% of his time displaying those quirks is the problem. Is there a non soul-crushing way to deliver this message? Thanks so much for your insight.

Hmmm. I think we've been pretty successful at communicating "different, not less" though it took some years to get us on the other side of this mountain you're on.

Don't get me wrong: we started out calling it a difference and have edged slowly into calling it a disability, or saying that there are disabling aspects to his differences. Nothing wrong with that. But I think DS is learning that there are ways to be himself and still follow enough of the "rules" to get by. He knows he is always going to stand out in a crowd, and on a good day, he likes that. He knows he is prone to communication breakdowns and he's expected to do the exhausting work of going back and figuring out where things went wrong - and on a good day, he can do that. All of us are starting to figure out that if there isn't a direct way through, we can find a way over, around, or under.

There is a degree to which being on the spectrum can be like being in a place where nobody speaks your language: it's hard, it's exhausting, people get frustrated with you because things that seem simple to them are complicated for you, and sometimes you just want to shut yourself in a room and be by yourself and cry. This doesn't mean you will never learn the language, even if it will always be a "second language" for you.

Of course, the analogy falls apart because there is more to autism than just a communication barrier, but it's the same idea: you just have to remember that you do things differently, and work to figure out how YOU get from A to B, instead of following how NT people do it. Next step is learning to advocate for doing it your way (if you're good enough at it, most people really care that you get from A to B and not HOW you get there - but you have to learn self-advocacy skills which are complicated and subtle.)

There's another thread here about IQ tests, and I should have added this there: while DS's IQ test (I don't even remember his number) is in no way an indicator of his capabilities, there are clues in it. For instance, he's off the charts in "visual working memory." If he's struggling with anything, I approach it as visually as possible: for instance, right now he's freaking out about algebra - they're calculating slopes. I used my arm to illustrate the y-intercept point (my elbow) and the slope (the angle of my arm) and stairs for rise-over-run.

We're still working on finding "tricks" for social interaction: TV helps, but unfortunately lots of TV is either wildly inappropriate or so intensely didactic that DS scoffs at it - but it's a visual medium that works for him.

Yes, you don't want to candy-coat the extra amount of work it will take for him to become independent - but I think you can let him know that he's got a team of people who are there expressly to help him figure it out (hopefully you have a school team who is behind you?)

Thanks so much for your reply. In your experience, is there a way to phrase 'corrections' in such a way that he doesn't feel there's something inherently wrong with him? A way to help him externalize his socially annoying behaviours so that he doesn't think they're who he is, but something apart from him (if you know what I mean)?

Great suggestion. He's really into computer games these days, and we've tried to expose him to elementary coding classes, but he has low frustration tolerance and when things get too difficult it's easier for him to give up than try to break through. Maybe perseverance isn't something you can teach? I don't know - maybe we just haven't found the right incentive.

I have been taking this on and off for moo/depression/anxiety/sleep and it helps a lot. There are a lot of natural things to try for depression issues. But with the talk of murder and killing and suicidal thoughts, I'd definitely go to a professional and keep a close eye on that.

You, yourself admit part of this negative self-image comes from you. Start there. Really, believe me that after the diagnosis I had to take a very hard look in the mirror and change my ways. It was difficult, I cried many days, but in the end, it was worth it.