How does one behave on a 'second date'?

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NO.

…

Ok, MAYBE it's POSSIBLE. But I don't to tell you something is possible and you get your hopes up. You need to take some time and be honest with yourself. Where exactly do you stand? Find where that is and start from there. I don't know you that well or your situation beyond what you're telling me. But as I see it, you have generally poor standing. I want to see you step it up and move past where you are and actually see some more, better, positive results. What you're trying to do isn't going to help you get any kind of growth, and you need something positive. Having a REALISTIC outlook on dating and relationships is a good first step in getting there.


It's not happening. Let it go. You're not going to "wait" for anything. If you can handle being friends, which I doubt at this point, then be friends. But you need to DROP these expectations. She said "no." Start with "no" and move forward. By "waiting" you're not moving at all.


THAT'S the attitude. Keep it casual.


ALL acquaintances. All of them. You're not in a position to limit yourself.

BTW…let's make sure we understand each other when we're talking about pursuing moos… You're pursuing girls for the sake of getting to know them. You're putting yourself out there for THEM to choose YOU. You're not really pursuing girls. You're pursuing the OPPORTUNITY to get to know girls better.

Like I said, you're going to get to know some women who are psychotic. Give everyone a chance. Dig below the surface. Find out what makes everyone tick. You may end up having coffee with "crazy b!+cH" and decide you really, REALLY do not need to see her again. That's OK. You're allowed to reject people.


*sigh*

Look past physical attractiveness. You're not looking for your soulmate. You're just looking for experience to get to know someone past a purely superficial level.

I'll be the first to tell you there are physical traits that are deal breakers in the long term. It's because I've come to associate women who have a certain look or certain physical features with a certain type of behavior. I don't avoid talking to them. I just wouldn't want to get in a committed relationship with any of them. This is one of those things women will flame me about, but I don't care. I had one very, VERY severely bad relationship that went on too long. I got beyond burned. Like, worse than burned. Slow, agonizing, painful torture. After that, I began to notice that pretty much any woman who looked like her behaved remarkably similarly. It's not that they are bad people. It's not that you shouldn't get to know everyone you can. It's just that once you gain enough experience with a wide variety of folks, you'll learn to take a few shortcuts, keeping company with certain women and avoiding others altogether.




As a personal preference, YES. It's what I would do.

Think like picking lottery tickets. First of all, nobody wins the lottery. You have a much better chance of getting in a relationship than winning the lottery. You can pick the same number over and over again if you want to. If you go purely random, which isn't easy, you've got just as good odds, maybe even improved odds, of picking the right number. Choosing women to ask out on a date is much better that way, in my opinion, because you evenly distribute the odds of meeting someone you're going to be most compatible with.

Actually MEETING girls isn't random, though, aside from the fact you don't know who will be where or when. Just pay attention and see who you bump into the most. Then get names/contact info/etc. And because you know you'll see her again eventually, you can get the "first 5." Once you start building your list of contacts, THEN you can start going at random, rather than merely one at a time.

Heh…just go to random.org, type out your list, and just run them in that sequence. When you get to the end of the list, randomize it again and start from the top. Remember, right at first you won't even HAVE a list. After about two weeks, you could potentially have 4 people on that list. That will gradually increase. If you play it right, within a month's time, you shouldn't be spending any more weekends alone. And by "play it right," I mean displaying interest in girls by getting them talking and suggesting ways you can get together to continue the conversation.

I've never had a girl, um…"switch teams" on me, but one bad relationship I was in just instantly vaporized right in front of me one day. Things like that will drive you insane. You do well to learn to avoid them early on in the game.

My relational "muses" all have names--Jessica, Emily, Felicia, Elizabeth, and Amanda. Jessica was the free spirit who came from a very abusive background. Trying to catch her was like trying to catch the wind. It was beautiful but entirely too brief relationship, and that one really hurt when it was over. Emily was sweet and innocent on the surface, but once you got to know her, she played those push-pull games. Once she got bored with you, it was over. I should have known better…she had a HISTORY of this with other guys, and I was stupid for thinking I'd be any different. She was a gold-digger. Felicia was a co-dependent abuser. She's the one who makes you think you need her for your very oxygen. Button pusher. Picked at you until you erupt, then starts crying because you're so mean. Felicia is an example of the psychotic ones. The longer you stay with them, the harder they are to get rid of. Learn to spot these early on. Elizabeth is the girl next door every guy wants. She's the one you bring home to mom. Sweet and innocent like Emily with just a hint of a perverted streak. Oh, and she's the real deal. She doesn't criticize, she doesn't yell at you, she's just along for the ride. And then there's Amanda…*sigh*….yeah… Amanda is Elizabeth with a mouth and muscle. She eats girls like Elizabeth for breakfast. She's not just along for the ride…she wants the wheel. She floors the accelerator and doesn't even know what brakes are. She will fight you if she doesn't like what you have to say, but she'll also respect you for standing your ground. She may not always agree with you, but she's ALWAYS got your back. Take her home to meet your mom? lol Forget it. She'll come over when she knows good and well you're not around to "return something," and then stays for dinner and calls your mother "mom." She's beautiful, she's sexy, she's sarcastic, she's freakin' hilarious, and she's freakin' brilliant. I'm going to stop right there since there's a 16yo in our midst, but you get the picture. Break up with her? heh…don't even bother. She knows she's the ONE for you, that you're stupid, and once you figure out that piece of trash you're running after isn't worth it, you'll come crawling back. And she'll be there. And she'll give you a hug and say, "I'm so sorry that happened. It's going to be ok. Tell you what…I'm going out for margaritas. I bet some Dos Equis and tequila will make you feel better, and we can talk this out later, ok?"

[pause for reflection]

Yeah...

Anyway, with every post I make about girls, I'm usually talking about one of these. Some girls you can handle, some girls you can't. I'm married to Amanda, so, yeah, I kinda idealize her and Elizabeth. You might be able to tame Jessica or Emily. You might be able to slap Felicia down and "put her in her place" (I'm not being a misogynist here, btw…I later found out she acquired a taste for that kind of thing and I wondered if what she really wanted was some dom/sub action. I'm just not into that, and I still maintain that she was just flat-out psychotic). They are all wonderful girls in their own ways, but they are not all equally compatible. It takes a lot of time to figure that out. Trying to make something work that just won't is only going to drive you insane. Don't be crazy-stalker-dude.

I don't agree with this. I can understand where she's coming from - I use to believe I was bisexual myself.

For some bisexual people it seems to come in 'phases' - for 6 months or so they might prefer one sex, at some point they then might prefer another.

She is attracted to both she says, but right now is looking for a girlfriend. It's that simple.

Yes, she has rejected me and only wants to be friends right now, but she did not rule out the idea entirely of us together.

I agree kratiekortie that it is a unique/odd/awkward situation and therefore even more difficult to give any sort of advice if you haven't experienced such a thing as this.

I'm certainly stuck on what to do.

It is a rare occurance - how many times do you pursue a woman for her to tell you she is bisexual, WOULD be interested in dating you, but prefers women right now and cannot see herself with a male at the present moment.

It certainly is a really awkward situation...

Either way, we've agreed to discuss things over coffee sometime this week. We both have (her words) unfinished business to discuss. I have questions for her and she has questions she still felt she needed to ask me as well.

I really, really don't know what to expect at this point...

And the truth is, feelings change, regardless of sexual orientation.

A straight person might be just as likely to lose attraction to their partner of a few years than a bisexual I think.

"Unfinished business"? Uh oh… I hate when girls say that. Feels a little too familiar…like getting called to the principal's office. No good ever comes of that. Let us know how it turns out. This should be interesting!

Wrt everything else, I feel the need to quote the wise words of Obi-wan Kenobi: "Your insight serves you well. Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor."

There will most certainly be other girls who are accepting of you. Don't think that she's the only one. You don't know if other girls will be accepting if you don't give them a chance. Remain friends with her but look for other girls as potential girlfriends, don't wait for this one girl to become interested in guys again so that she can become your girlfriend, that's not guaranteed to happen. If she does decide to have a relationship with you at some future time then great, but don't stick with just one girl and think that she's the only one, because she's not.

If you still want to talk about some things with over coffee then that's great. Understand though that it's as friends and not a date.

UPDATE:

A lot has happened in the past few days.

Long story short:

It's official: No.

I've been rejected and it's time to only be friends. It was fun while it lasted.

F*ck my life, yet another failure.

Will I learn from mistakes? Sure I will!

Will it make me feel any better? No, no it will not.

Question: Is it best to feel sadness and misery after a rejection, or complete anger and rage? I want to only choose one to feel, not both...

Hey Bro,

Don't give up.

There's other kangaroos to hop on. Other fish in the sea.

You have advantages over me: height and possibly good looks.

You have intellect.

Aspergers had nothing to do with this.

Before I write another word, let me just say this: THAT SUCKS. I'm truly sorry this happened.

You don't really want me going on about the bright side of this, so I'll keep it brief: I'd feel neither of those after a rejection--they're both probably equally bad and not worth it. The way I'D choose to feel about it is relieved. This is something you don't have to worry or stress out about. This is no longer something you can obsess over. Your time will no longer be wasted. You are now FREE. Feel GOOD about where you are.

Anyway…not going to dwell on it.

If those were my only options, I'd go with sadness. If I'm going to be upset about it, here's how I'd go with it:

Give it a good week to two weeks mourning period. Then get back on that horse.

Emily taught me a lot of hard lessons about rejection after a very deep attachment. Girls like her and the free-spirit Jessica just evaporate after a while. There's no point in letting yourself get that attached to them.

But if you do, I think you NEED the time to really isolate yourself, dwell on it, and ultimately accept it. Emily was by far the worst in my experience. We'd gotten together and broken up twice. After the second time, I really took advantage of her fickleness and she ended up cheating on her new bf with me. I admit I thought it was fun. But more than anything I needed to let this one go, and I was beyond weary of it. I went from calling her like, twice a day to not calling at all…and one day out of the blue she calls me up "just wanting to check on me and see how I was doing." Gee, um…lemme see, you ripped my heart out and pooped on it--how do you THINK I'm doing??? No, I didn't SAY that to her, but I was thinking it. I never took the initiative to call her after that, and since then she'll randomly pop back up in my life somehow or another, and I'll go months to years and not hear a single thing from her--trust me, I'm OK with that!! ! So…I'd say we're on friendly terms NOW, but it couldn't always be that way. I had a lot of growing up to do to get here--and I'm not fooling myself by claiming to have actually arrived just yet.

After you have a couple of weeks to sort of reboot, if you're going to insist on going out with girls, you need to approach it with a completely different mindset. Forget about "love." That's all about emotion. Instead, concentrate on just not being alone for an entire weekend. In the world of finance, they refer to that as "diversification." You spread your investment across as large a number of mutuals as you can. You're guaranteed more losers than winners, so don't worry TOO much about losses. Accept the risks. Ultimately, there will only be ONE winner, so don't let the losses get to you early in the game.

In the stock market world, where people often go wrong is in speculation. They panic at the first sign of trouble. They second guess the system. They put too much faith in few stocks, ignoring the risks, and ultimately getting out at a pretty substantial loss. The analogy here is getting too emotionally involved with girls the way speculators get too emotionally involved in picking stocks. Speculators only worry about the short term, which is why they very often lose money in the market. People who get too emotionally attached to moos get burned when the relationship falls apart. You're trying to score too much in the short term, and in so doing you're burning bridges (by ignoring other girls to concentrate on an individual). Start focusing on the long term, don't rush into exclusivity.

Long term investors don't freak out when stocks dip. They spread out money across as many mutual funds as they can. WHEN (not if) the market crashes, they refuse to sell out since they know they'll at least be back up where they left off in the next few years, not to mention the survivors usually end up a lot stronger. Someone went out of business, declared bankruptcy? Meh…who cares…because this software developer over here made 3000% profits compared with last year and I just became a millionaire overnight. It CAN happen, but you want to make it a little less like winning the lottery.

Follow the analogy--don't freak out over short term losses (like the one you just experienced). Spread yourself around and diversify your holdings. More importantly, reevaluate how you count your successes.

When I say diversify, the only real investment capital you have is time. Be generous with that time. Spread it around, give it to as many girls as will take it. You'll have the lion's share of losers--that's a given. What you're looking for is the one winner that makes the overall investment worth it. At worst, you break even that way. Remember that the journey is long and the sacrifice great. Turn off your emotions and count your successes in the smiles you elicit from girls. Count your victories with every 5-minute block of time you get from just saying "hello." Get in the HABIT of doing this. Start with that and do that every chance you get. You're in a two-week funk right now…when you come out of it, look in the mirror and say to yourself these two words: NEVER AGAIN. Steel your resolve. Once you make up your mind, I promise you're going to feel a lot better and it will all start to make sense.

Speaking of taking two weeks off…I'm taking two weeks off from this thread. My final piece of advice until then is this: Find something else to do. Get a paint-by-numbers book. Build model airplanes. Build and fly a kite. Take up knitting. Make sandcastles. Do a jigsaw puzzle. Get a Tibetan singing bowl. Produce a dubstep remix. SOMETHING. Put your heart and soul into whatever it is you decide to do. Listen to some calm, relaxing, contemplative music. Purge yourself of this atrocity you've put yourself through. You're going to be OK. After you do that for two weeks, refocus on what REALLY matters in interpersonal relations with moos. I'll have more to say then.

lol exactly how I feel when a girl I like doesn't like me back. On the outside i'm just like okay no big deal but on the inside i'm like




finding another girl, time, or playing video games helps to get over her but that isn't always easy especially when you feel like theres no one else like her. And you're 16 so you still have plenty of time to mature mind-wise. When I was 16, I couldn't even talk to anyone without freezing up. I still suck at talking but hey at least im better. You can change a lot personality wise and your views and ideals in 5 years. Just look at Miley Cyrus.

Last edited by darkphantomx1 on 02 Apr 2015, 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Listen man you never give up. Don't make the same mistake I did. I got rejected time and time again during my 8th and 9th grade year and as a result, I closed myself off and i'm now afraid to talk to girls because I fear they will reject and ignore me again. That's why I never had a girlfriend all throughout high school because I was too afraid to take the initiative. If a girl is single and shows some interest in you, you have to take the initiative and you can't wait for some other guy to come pick her up because that will happen. She's just waiting for a guy shes interested in to ask her out and if he doesn't ask her out, she will find some other guy who will. I had several opportunities my junior year in high school but I froze up and they assumed I was uninterested or quickly moved on to another guy. You just can't stand around and daydream about a girl hoping she will make a move on you, that's the mistake iv'e made every single time and will continue to make this mistake until I grow a pair and actually ask for a girls phone number.

You never give up trying to talk to girls. Because some day, you will be successful. And if you never even try to interact with women, you will have to wait a very long time before you get a girlfriend if ever. Getting rejected hurts but thinking about a girl 24/7 and not doing anything about it and watching her walk away hurts even more. Iv'e been there and done that far too many times and i'm tired of it. Obsessing about a girl who barely even knows I exist and that never feels good.

Don't make the same mistake I did. Don't give up.

I actually know that feeling.

In the 10th grade I tried so many times and failed that by the 11th I couldn't even say a single word to any of the girls I liked and was completely mute.

I am at a new school this year now that I'm in the 12th grade and felt more confident now that I had a fresh start and improved social skills.

Alright, I'm hoping AngelRho sees this so they can reply, but anyone else can respond.

So, basically, AngelRho, your idea is this:

- Realistically speaking, only about 1 in 100 women would want to go out with you.

- You might have to go through 100 women before finding that 1 special person who is naturally the right person for you. The kind of person that you naturally 'click' with and get along with. The kind of person that you naturally are destined to be in a relationship with. 'The one'. Not the one you will marry, but simply the one who seems to be what you are looking for.

- To do this, you choose QUANTITY over QUALITY?
If you aren't a charming, smooth-talking type, than your only choice is to go through a ridiculous amount of people until you find the one that will accept you and like you as you are.

- So, you make yourself noticeable, simply by hanging around their 'spot'? What is their 'spot'? In high school, most people have a particular 'spot' where they are most found - typically a certain place that they always sit with their friends.

So, find their 'spot' and hang around doing your own thing, pretending not to notice her - the idea is for you to be noticed by her.

- Get a notebook.

- After hanging around, approach her and strike up a conversation for 5 minutes. Get as much information as possible, especially regarding her hobbies/interests. I can DO this.

- Go back another time a little later on and do it again, but this time make the conversation longer and in-more depth. Casually ask them if they'd like to get coffee sometime.

- See them for, how long, 8 weeks? And, if they are the right person for you, then obviously things will naturally progress into a relationship, as you would both be flirting with each other and have 'chemistry' and a 'connection' together. A natural one. The idea is to see so many different women that you will eventually find this one woman you have chemistry with.

- So, due to me being just a teenager, I should choose not to be too distracted or wasting my time. Meaning I should only aim to meet one girl, every weekend.

As in, one NEW PERSON each weekend?

Or, maybe just a small number of girls (say 3-6) but as long as I am hanging out with at least one of them each weekend?

Is this your idea AngelRho? Have I gotten the gist of it?

Because I'm doing it. I really will do it.

The steps they're real!

Try everything and don't be afraid to make mistakes. You learn from your mistakes and the important thing is you get back up from them.

Good luck finding "the one" My one and only is Justin Bieber. He doesn't know it yet but we were meant for each other.

Forget about statistics; they mean nothing within a personal, individual context.

"Being yourself" will land you more success, especially as you get older.

Guess what, folks…I'm baaaaaaack!! !! !

And I want a progress report…NOW.

No. WORST CASE SCENARIO only 1 in 100 women. I'm too optimistic to actually believe it can possibly be that bad. But I prefer to look at things as "what's the worst that could happen?" It's a way of defeating fear. Besides, if you try to casually meet up with 100 women and you get shot down for lunch or coffee every single time, something is SERIOUSLY wrong. I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm just saying that…well, 100 women is a big number. If you can go through that many women and not get a single coffee date, not even a "real date" (I count all of them as real, but you know what I mean), you really need to examine why that is. It takes a lot of courage to do that, and a lot of people aren't ready to look at themselves as date-repellant.


Eh…more or less… But you might not even have to go THAT far. And then again, you might have to meet a lot more than 100 women. Let's say you actually meet and regularly have contact with 100 women, become tight friends with 3 or 4, try for LTR with those 3 or 4, and it doesn't work out. Now you need to backtrack…are there any women you crossed off the list earlier you want to revisit? Or are you just starting over from scratch? Reconnecting is going to save you time, but if things didn't work out, you might want to start completely over.

But do remember this: When you decide to stick with ONE woman, you're rejecting every other woman in your dating pool in favor of an exclusive relationship. It's not just that there's only one woman out there for you…it's that you're CHOOSING for there to be only one woman. Which is fine, that's exactly what we're trying to do. Don't be picky right out of the barrel. Get to know a lot of people over a long period of time before you decide to zero in on a small number of women.


Well, you HAVE other choices. But yes, you go for QUANTITY. Why? Because you're going to find quality WITHIN quantity. In other words, working with a larger number is going to help you find more of the quality you're looking for. They're out there. The trouble is finding them. You can't find if you don't look. And when you're working with smaller numbers, you make it less likely you're going to be in the company of the kind of quality you're going for.

Here's another thought: Why CAN'T you populate that quantity with quality? In other words, ask 100 quality women out. The large numbers rule still applies. But at the same time, I think if you go TOO much with quality, you might miss the gems that are hiding out there, awesome women you never knew existed because you'd never have given them a chance before. Luck favors the prepared.


Not exactly. If you aren't used to dating or "chatting up" people, it's a good idea to make yourself comfortable in that kind of environment. You also don't want to be labeled a creep, just randomly going up to someone and spraying her with questions. Get used to be being seen. Get used to making very brief eye contact. That sort of thing. When you aren't intimidated by others, and when you feel comfortable striking up a quick convo, it won't be quite so difficult.

This may not be something you have much difficulty with, but others do. Don't "pretend not to notice" anyone. You're just hanging out minding your own business. You just wanted to have a cup of coffee while you post something to Twitter and check your Facebook (or whatever). BTW…I see you here every Thursday and you order the same thing. Would you like to share a table while you wait for your friends? (See what I did there?)


Yep…keep track of important things you need to remember. I do actively keep a journal, though not for your purposes. A funny thing about me: I actually do keep my journal with me pretty much at all times. That may not work out for you. If you're tracking your social/dating life, it might be best to keep that somewhere only you have access to.


Yep.


You got it.


Basically, you've got it. But never, EVER put a timetable on things. Somewhere between 8 and 12 weeks you should be able to ask this girl out for a date-date. As far as romantic relationships go, I'd really hope by the time a year passes you'd know at least one of these girls, preferable 3 or 4, well enough that you could initiate a serious relationship. But it's not that black-and-white. I always suggest long periods of time where there might be some doubt. Could you find "The ONE" in 90 days? Sure. If you're so lucky, there's really no point in continuing any longer, and just stick with the exclusive relationship. You should be prepared for it if it happens that way. You should NOT count on that happening, though.


Or simply every week. You don't really have to be overly concerned with never spending weekends alone, so don't stay very preoccupied with it. Just spending a quick 5 minutes meeting someone new. Hello! What's your name? Cool! My name is____. So what do you like to do? Really? I've never heard of that. Do you mind telling me what that is? Awesome! Hey, I have to go, but I'd like to hear more. Same time tomorrow? Great! Can't wait!


No. Start big. Get to know a lot of people. Track who you're spending time with. Now, keep in mind you're going to get rejection, and likely LOTS of it. But you're also going to find out of those who DON'T reject dates with you, a few of those will pretty much go out with you every time you ask. You're going to find you're spending most of your time with them. THAT is when you decide how you're going to move that towards a more serious relationship.


You've very roughly got it. Just hang in there. Can't wait to hear back from you.