20 Mar 2015, 5:01 am
starkid wrote:
Definitely. Most people leave out the part about him risking his life to cross the U.S.-Mexican border smuggled in the back of a filthy pickup truck under a load of cabbages, slaving away for fourteen hours a day as a migrant farmworker, and sharing a tiny apartment with seven other guys and no electricity so that he could afford to send most of his under-the-table wages back home to his family.
Jesus Elodio Gonzalez is an inspiration to us all.
Jesus Elodio Gonzalez is an inspiration to us all.
That's not the Jesus I meant
20 Mar 2015, 9:23 am
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
wittgenstein wrote:
My speculation,
First the facts
1. Jesus was primarily Jewish.
2. The area and time around Jesus knew about Greek philosophy, Buddhism etc.
3. slightly speculative but most likely true, Jesus was interested in religion and philosophy.
4. There are many parallels between what Jesus taught and Greek philosphy and Buddhism.
Speculation,
Jesus was primarily Jewish but co-opted parts of greek philosophy and Buddhism. In other words gnostic.
Luke 17:21 is very gnostic as much of the new testiment is.
Later, Jesu's gnostic teachings were surpressed ( nag hammadi etc) because conventional christianity facilitaed the elite's agenda.
A bruacracy was created. King-pope-lord-serf that cemented power. Of course Christ's original teaching that God is wiyhin has to be eradicated. Why serve the king when God is within you?
I think that conventional Christianity is the opposite of what Christ taught.
Ps: I am using a tablet. Blame my big fat fingers gor spelling and grammatical errors!
First the facts
1. Jesus was primarily Jewish.
2. The area and time around Jesus knew about Greek philosophy, Buddhism etc.
3. slightly speculative but most likely true, Jesus was interested in religion and philosophy.
4. There are many parallels between what Jesus taught and Greek philosphy and Buddhism.
Speculation,
Jesus was primarily Jewish but co-opted parts of greek philosophy and Buddhism. In other words gnostic.
Luke 17:21 is very gnostic as much of the new testiment is.
Later, Jesu's gnostic teachings were surpressed ( nag hammadi etc) because conventional christianity facilitaed the elite's agenda.
A bruacracy was created. King-pope-lord-serf that cemented power. Of course Christ's original teaching that God is wiyhin has to be eradicated. Why serve the king when God is within you?
I think that conventional Christianity is the opposite of what Christ taught.
Ps: I am using a tablet. Blame my big fat fingers gor spelling and grammatical errors!
Thanks for replying. I have been thinking about this all day and what I wonder now, which I haven't previously because I thought along the same lines as you, a philosopher/rabbi who started out as one of John the Baptist's disciples but now I am beginning to wonder if Jesus is actually a combined experience of many men who were crucified during the time Rome occupied the area and the New Testament reflects the experiences of the survivors. It's like a record of these people who met and were part of this healing culture, who had experienced their loved ones crucified. They didn't have therapy back then but they did meet together in order to deal with their pain and this is how Christian gnosticism started and that eventually led to the church. If you know the history of the church, it is so focused on grizzly events it seems logical it has it's roots in these post crucifixion cults and it might reflect on the experience of the crucified. Anytime non citizens of Rome acted up, the Romans used crucifixion as a punishment and example to others, so they might behave in the future. It was a way to scare them into submission.
This is what leads me to believe Christianity does, indeed, have some of it's origins in the Third Servile War:
The crucifixion of Spartacus' army[edit]
Emperor Trajan built a deviation of Via Appia. This is a tract of Via Appia Traiana near Egnatia.
The column in Brindisi, marking the end of the Via Appia.
Main article: Spartacus
In 73 BC, a slave revolt (known as the Third Servile War) under the ex-gladiator of Capua, Spartacus, began against the Romans. Slavery accounted for roughly every third person in Italy.
Spartacus defeated many Roman armies in a conflict that lasted for over two years. While trying to escape from Italy at Brundisium he unwittingly moved his forces into the historic trap in Apulia/Calabria. The Romans were well acquainted with the region. Legions were brought home from abroad and Spartacus was pinned between armies.
On his defeat the Romans judged that the slaves had forfeited their right to live. In 71 BC, 6,000 slaves were crucified along the 200-kilometer (120 mi) Via Appia from Rome to Capua.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appian_Way ... us.27_army
This event could have very well been the beginning.
Imagine traveling the Via Appia, which was the busiest road to Rome, pretty much because it was the only one, only to see 6000 crucified gladiators and other slaves along the way. The Romans left them for all the world to see so others would be discouraged to rise against the Roman world. Would have made quite an impression.
What does this have to do with Christianity?
Christ lived in an outer province of the Roman Empire (in Judea), and not in the mother country of Italy (like Spartacus).
_____________
Agree with the above poster: that Jesus was likely a composite. Many guys were wandering around Judea calling themselves "Joshua" (after the Joshua of the Old Testament) at that time. One is even mentioned in the Babylonian Talmud: "a miscreant named Yeshua has been wandering the countryside preaching heresy and practicing black magic.So the authorities hanged him from a tree." This Yeshua even had 9 disciples listed by name. But none of them had names resembling any of the 12 disciples of Christ. Probably there were many rabblerousers doing their thing at the time. Some ended up executed by the locals the local way (by being hanged from trees), and some ended up being executed by the Roman occupiers the Roman way (by being nailed to a cross). The one we remember may be a composite of more than one.
Also have thought along the lines of the other poster: that Christ was a Jew influenced by ideas from beyond the horizon of Judea (he lived in a more cosmopolitan Hellenistic Judea than did any of the figures in the OT). At some point he may have sat at the feet of Persian Zoroastrian priests (known as "magi") which would explain both the folktale about the gift of the magi, and would explain how Zoroastrian notions of "heaven", "hell", and "a day of judgement" got grafted onto the largely Jewish trunk of the tree that became Christianity. Like Wittgenstien said -Nag Hammadi also even shows some evidence of Buddhist influence in what became a heretical form of early Christianity.
NaturalPlastic, Christianity is pretty much a Roman religion that focuses on a crucifixion with other influences thrown in and nothing written down when "Jesus" was actually living which could be due to Jesus not being one man but the men who were crucified by the Romans. You neglect to take into account the thousands who were crucified and the ones left behind after it happened. Are you going to say all of them were null and void? Do you honestly believe for one second their emotions could not possibly effect the culture? Considering we do not have enough information from when Jesus was actually alive and crucifixion wasn't even mentioned until hundreds of years later, according to AspieOtaku's video, it could be that Jesus was not the one who was actually crucified. If he were, why did it take them so long to even be able to talk about it? There are a lot of unanswered questions that a traveling minister doesn't explain. Most traveling ministers do not end up being crucified. You don't get crucified for mixing greek with Buddhism. Why such a focus on crucifixion? Don't you find it more than curious Jesus would be the only one to be crucified if indeed he were. If you know anything about the Romans it's they didn't stop with just one. They would have wiped them all out, kinda like Darth Sidious. It's just how the Romans were. They hated rebellion with a passion.
Instead of being so narrow minded, consider the possibility. Jesus was pretty much just a crucified man for a long time. It wasn't until the reformation the focus was on the actual written word.
The connection between The Third Servile War and Christianity should be explored since the data we have is pretty much non existence. I mean, they have Jesus being born in the winter while scholars say that is highly unlikely and no one can figure out what this mysterious star was the three wise men saw although there's speculation. It is beginning to look like a collection of stories and prophecies gathered by the survivors of the crucified. In their grief, they could have even fabricated fables of how their loved one, son or husband, came back to life after he died to ease their trauma. People were more apt to say stuff like that at the time. I think it is worthy of investigation since the origins are indeed quite mysterious indeed.
People think of Christianity as this flowery religion with plain surrounds and Bibles but it did not start out as such, not by a long shot. It was a bit like the Roman Arena in its gore and gristle there for a while and stories of suffering martyrs were a plenty. These permeated the Christian cults for who knows how long before The First Council of Nicaea.
Another thing you should wonder, why so many in Rome were Christians and not so many in the middle east where it started? Why is the Vatican in Rome and not in Antioch or somewhere like that? It could easily be in Antioch, couldn't it? Yet, it's in Rome. Rome has been the seat of Christianity for quite some time, hasn't it?
Too many flaws in both your facts, and in your logic, to innumerate.
Long story short- Christianity spread east-to-west from the Levant to Rome. Not the other way around. Antioch WAS the center of Christianity for a brief spell before it took hold in Egypt, and in Corinth, and in Rome. By the time Rome had a christian population there were several christian communities in the middle east, and a sizeable Christian population east of the Adriatic. The Coptic Christians being persecuted by the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt today as we speak are a remnant of that population.
But since Rome was the center of power of the Roman Empire -once the creed got hold there- then it did spread outward in every direction from Rome. But even then the East was the center of gravity. The empire gradually split in two, and Rome and Constantinople became rival centers of both imperial rule, and of Christianity. And that legacy survives today as the split between Roman Catholicism, and Eastern Orthodoxy. The later was very much prevalent in the middle east until the region was overrun by the Muslims coming from beyond the pale of the Byzantine/Roman Empire out of Arabia.
20 Mar 2015, 9:53 am
20 Mar 2015, 10:05 am
20 Mar 2015, 12:23 pm
kraftiekortie wrote:
Wouldn't be nice if YouTube was around during Jesus' time?
'If mass communication per YouTube was around during the time
of Jesus', per Youtube, reminds me of this Youtube video, again,
which is 'PROPHETIC' PERHAPS, AS A 'self-fulfilling prophecy'.
The COMPLETE REVISED STORY OF THE SO-CALLED GOD MAN named as Jesus
IS quite a TALE in DEED, with billions of associated people in blood, sweat, and tears,
BY an innumerable number of writers, directors, actors and audience of FEELING spectators
making up what Christianity ends up today as is, and is still evolving as IS, as we speak,
from 'GOOD CATHOLIC YOUNG WOMEN' removing covers from head and showing
ample T & A, In tight fitting skirts and short shorts, in CATHOLIC CHURCH, TO
OTHER RELIGIONS EMPLOYING FEMALE MINISTERS WHO ARE GAY TOO.
OH MY FRIGGING GOD, GOD EVOLVES with HUMAN NOW.
HUMANS CREATE THE MYTHS THAT HOUSE TRUTH
THROUGH THE VEHICLES AND VESSELS OF
METAPHORS AND IT IS UP TO US
HUMANS TO FILL THE SIGNATURES
OF THAT TRUTH IN FLESH AND BLOOD.
IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF IF JESUS EXISTS.
IT'S A STATEMENT OF WHEN WILL
JESUS EXIST
IN GENERAL, IN THE HUMAN POPULATION
AS IS.
THE CHALLENGE IS ThERE.
FEW PICK UP 'THE CROSS'
AND JUST MAKE IT HAPPEN,
WHERE METAPHORS OF VEHICLES AND VESSELS OF TRUTH
IN HOUSINGS OF MYTHS BECOME FLESH AND
BLOOD HUMAN.
THE SIGNATURE OFTEN
PRECEDES THE
SON
OR
DAUGHTER
AS
IS
AKA
PART
OF GOD MORE FULLY MANIFEST
IN HUMAN POTENTIAL.
AND I am doing that
'WrITE' NOW,
AS THERE IS
almost no limit of what A
PERSON or GROUP OF PEOPLE
CAN DO WITH THE TRUE EMOTING POWERS
OF THE EMOTIONS OF HUMAN RELATIVE FREE WILL
THROUGH THE TOOL OF IMAGINATION and CREATIVITY
AND THE (ISA's) INSTINCT, SKILLS, AND ABILITIES
THAT CAN AND DO COME
ALIVE AS HUMAN BEING
Much FULLER HUMAN POTENTIAL WHEN one seeks
finds, employs, utilizes and continually practices
with human RELATIVE
FREE WILL the REAL EMPOWERING EMOTIONS of Faith, HOPE,
and BELIEF IN MAKING real life human miracles
COME TRUTH.
Smiles, and any questions, friend...
OH, and by the way, I am currently playing
the role of JUDAS, per se, in the YouTUBE
video above,
As Hell yes, I wanna know
and Aim AND practice
JUST THAT
IN ISA'S
MANIFEST IN MY OWN
FORM OF
MASS COMMUNICATION, BABY!..
20 Mar 2015, 5:40 pm
20 Mar 2015, 6:14 pm
20 Mar 2015, 7:52 pm
21 Mar 2015, 2:00 am
21 Mar 2015, 2:37 am
21 Mar 2015, 2:49 am
21 Mar 2015, 3:31 am
21 Mar 2015, 6:23 am
21 Mar 2015, 6:30 am
21 Mar 2015, 6:44 am
21 Mar 2015, 12:16 pm
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