Dota 2

Post Reply New Topic

Anyone play?

I have sort of an interest, kinda, but.... hmm.

I dunno. I often end up just playing other mobas more. Dota's utter obsession with last-hitting (my most despised mechanic in that genre) and looooooooooooooooooooooooooong matches that lack a simple surrender mechanism (in a game where snowballing is rampant) kinda pushes me away a bit. Not to mention the dirt-slow laning phase. At least in other games, you DO stuff other than JUST last-hit when in lane; fling skills and attacks back and forth, for instance, you cant really do that in Dota because you cant AFFORD to. Nobody clears lanes with skills in that game, which also means, not much back and forth fighting with your lane opponent during the normal course of that phase.

I do intend on giving it another go though, see if it'll grow on me a bit, but so far I've found other games to usually be better.

For those just tuning in ...

DoTA: "Defense of The Ancients", a multiplayer online battle arena mod for the video game "Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos" and its expansion, "Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne", based on the "Aeon of Strife" map for StarCraft.

MOBA: "Multiplayer Online Battle Arena", also known as action real-time strategy (ARTS), originated as a subgenre of the real-time strategy (RTS) genre of video games, in which a player controls a single character in one of two teams.

We return you now to our regularly-scheduled program.

I do, but i haven't played in quite a while due to the balancing being quite possibly the worst it's ever been.

I play Dota 2, sort of. I'm a big fan of the competitive scene and I like to watch it on Twitch.tv and YouTube (On Twitch I mostly watch large tournaments, and, on YouTube, I watch highlights of the hilarious player, SingSing, and commentaries and education videos by Purge) but my interest in media about it and the game itself waxes and wanes like it does with most things. I play pub matches with friends from time to time, but when I am interested in actually playing the game I queue for Ability Draft since it has the most variety compared to any other game mode in Dota 2, or any game mode in any MOBA/Action RTS for that matter. If you send me a PM with your Steam name I'll add you (any of the people in this thread, that is), in case you want to play sometime.

Also, while it's entirely pedantic and pointless for me to point this out, the term "MOBA" was coined by Riot Games to give a genre to League of Legends, but the application of that term to Dota-inspired games only is quite dubious given that many, many dissimilar and unrelated games in already existing genres involve "multiplayer online battle arenas". I mean, pretty much any competitive online shooter game fits the literal meaning of the term, among many other examples. I much prefer to use the term Dota-clone or, Valve's label for Dota 2, Action RTS.

Feh, I've heard the "ARTS" arguement, and my response is: Bah. I call it a moba not because of what each letter stands for.... which most people dont actually know anyway... but because it's the term that's actually known by most. Calling it an ARTS just generates derpy expressions, and when typed out tends to just look like a bizarre misspelling of RTS, a completely different genre. And on non-Dota forums for games of this genre, it usually just generates arguing, because "oh you called it that you must be a Dota fanboy GTFO". Sigh...

Alot of people that bicker about the terms (you've probably seen it at least a few thousand times, I know I have) usually end up having the reason for it actually be that it's Dota's special term, and they like Dota, and Valve, so that means it's the right one.

Me, since I dont like Dota very much, and I dont have an interest in even one of Valve's games (no, seriously... not even ONE. The only thing I've ever liked from them is Steam itself), I just use the term "moba". Typically if I run into someone that's being a jerk about it (which fortunately I've never seen happen in this place), I'll generally start repeating it as often as possible, because I can be irritating that way.


And I used to watch the competitive scene myself as well, but.... ugh. I cant really watch any game that I myself just dont really enjoy; never could. Even just going over to friends' houses, I usually bring the iPad for something to do, since if the others are playing something, chances are it'll bore me to even watch. So I ended up not watching those anymore. Other games though I do watch now, sometimes.

I tried it out a while back because I was looking for other games like League of Legends just to switch it up some. Anyways it didn't really capture my interest, I tried one match and got bored before I ever even saw an enemy character to battle just the weird green creatures that i guess would be like the equivalent minions in LoL....and it seemed there is no way to have the camra follow your character and its a hassle to always have to move the mouse to the edge of the screen to see what's going on. Also the over-all format seemed kind of needlessly complex.

Also it's not as visually appealing to me as LoL, nor does it seem to have as much back story for the characters.

Well, the camera in Dota 2 is not locked to your character because multiple heroes and even some items (which can be bought and used by any hero) allow you to create additional units for you to control, and as someone that's quite familiar with RTS games, I admire Dota 2 for staying true to form. Personally, I kind of scoff at people that use camera lock in League because of how much it hinders their situational awareness. I guess if it's too demanding to use edge panning (scrolling the camera like you described above) or camera grip (an even more unintuitive but even more efficient camera control method), I don't blame you, but I think you're limiting yourself if you don't give it a good try. Also, remember that Dota was made out of the Warcraft 3 engine, so many of it's "needlessly complex" elements are borrowed game elements that it has used to make the game deeper and more intricate. If that's not you're cup of tea, again, I won't judge you, but as someone that has played waaaaay too many video games (League being one of the big ones), I find myself fairly bored when a game doesn't expect you to use your brain to play it well.

And, about the artstyle, it's less flashy than LoL but I personally find it's understated style and it's consistency in design to be appealing, nonetheless (and it also makes it easier to know what's going on in the thick of the action as long as you know what you're looking at), and the lore does have a surprising amount of depth to it, but, again, the game does not announce it to you and the characters' personalities are less serious than League's.

I don't typically play online PC games well at least not until I got into League, so a lot of the general game play is still kinda new to me....in League I am trying to learn to play without having the camera lock on all the time, but for the time being I play better with it...as for map awareness I do pay attention to the minature map and am still working on effectively warding. As is I mostly play AP champions, but working to learn the AD ones. But yeah perhaps I will give it another go eventually once I figure out playing without camra lock....Another thing though was it seemed kind of laggy, but that could just be my computer...I am thinking of upgrading to a more gaming friendly computer. Aside from that I've really only played console games here and there....mostly Play Station 2 and 3 as well as Xbox. I did try runescape for a while but never caught my interest enough to pay to play with all the features....and I have seen lots of WOW played, but do not find it appealing...looks like a lot of mindless button mashing and visually its not very appealing...too bright as far as colors I guess.

This, right there. This is one of the things about Dota that bugs me by far the most.

Because I tend to think in the same way, but of all of the mobas I've tried.... it's actually *Dota* that engages my mind the least. Why? Because there's never enough going on.

Laning, for instance. There's no back and forth between me and my opponent, because heaven forbid we use spells during laning. So it's JUST last hitting. There's no thinking involved here... it's utterly mindless. I'm sorry, but "hit button at right time" does not = depth of any conceivable sort.

Battles in general: Due to Dota's "fire off a skill ONCE and you've used half your mana" design, battles are over VERY VERY QUICKLY. This, too, doesnt engage my mind much, because it happens, and then BAM, it's over. In other games, it's a more protracted fight... I'm constantly watching the flow of the fight, tracking tons of things at once as it keeps going, watching everyone's health (I'm often the support), and so on. But in Dota... I do this for MAYBE 10-15 very brief seconds, and I'll fire off skills MAYBE once or twice in most situations. The biggest team battles in Dota are often comparable to SMALL battles in.... literally all of the other mobas. They're just over FAR too fast.

Other thing about battles: NO SKILLSHOTS. This part. THIS PART. Of everything else about Dota, and moreso it's fanbase, this bothers me by far the most. Everyone goes on about "Oh Dota takes SO much more skill than all of those others!" when it's a game where you almost NEVER HAVE TO AIM. If your opponent is within your range, and you have the ability to use your mouse, you will hit your opponent with your spell most of the time in Dota; it's spells/skills are by far the easiest to hit with out of the genre. Now that's not to say the skillsets are bad or uninteresting, mind you, because they're not. But they never gave me all that much challenge to USE.


Support role: Uuuuuuugh. "Buy wards, place wards, buy wards, place wards, NEVER BUY ANYTHING ELSE". I just... I started hating wards and warding after that game. I'll still use the damn things in other games, so long as that other game doesnt force an absolute obsession with them. It's not interesting, it's not fun. There's no difficult choices of "which item is good right now?" because the answer is always "wards" in that game. There's a reason why LoL offers a single item that just keeps farting out more wards for you to use, and why other games have actually taken wards OUT of being items entirely and turned them into an ability that all characters can use (with a high-ish cooldown).


...you get the idea, I dont want to go into a full-blown rant here. It's just, to me, Dota never was what everyone always SAYS it was. I always got this bizarre impression that most of it's fanbase was seeing it through some sort of wonky fogged goggles or something that prevents them from seeing the game's issues.

A friend was almost making me to try this one, but I'm still not sure.
First of all I'm really bad at games that I need to keep clicking to where I want my character to move (maybe lack of practice on playing on PC, I don't know), so when the action starts it gets really hard for me to control a character this way (this is the main reason I play Diablo 3 on console).
Also the looong matches that I can't escape...

Yeah, if you want to try a game of this genre, DONT start with this one. It's the hardest one to learn, with a bunch of mechanics that outright dont make sense ("denying", for instance, which is the act of shooting your own troops in the back of the head... CLEARLY, that'll sure teach your opponent a thing or two! MAKES PERFECT SENSE), and possibly the most toxic/annoying community I've ever seen. And yes, you cannot get out of a match even if you are getting snowballed into oblivion. Matches that go that way get just a TAD boring fast, and then go for like 40 freaking minutes. It's not a bad game, mind you, but even alot of people that love it often tell new players to start with absolutely anything else.

There's also LoL, but it has very long matches as well, though it DOES have a surrender mechanic. Still has the hyper-toxic community.

Let's see... now, I'd suggest Dawngate, if #)%R&-ing EA hadnt gone "Okay, this isnt printing infinite money yet, time to cancel it" DURING THE FREAKING BETA. I hate them so much.

Infinite Crisis is pretty nice, fairly basic and traditional in how it does things (without a last hit obsession though) and it has a unique map to it. Strife is also good, and possibly the best one to start with for a new player, but that one is still in beta, though you can get into it easily if you want. There's also Smite, the one and only moba that doesnt control with mouse clicks; instead you get a third-person view behind your character, and you use WASD + mouse movement, though you do have the awkward number keys for firing spells. It has numerous modes. And there's Heroes of the Storm, which is by Blizzard, and another one that's easy to learn; it has the most variety of any of these... I think it's got, what, 7 maps now? ... and is designed for shorter match times (20-25 minutes) which are filled more with combat and actual movement instead of too much time doing the grindy parts. I've been playing that myself, it's pretty great so far. The AI in it is actually really good (I cant say that about ANY of the other games), which just makes it even easier to get into, because you can get some pretty good practice in with them and get used to things and experiment as you see fit.


The clicking bit though, it really just takes a bit of practice, that's all. I think you'd find you get used to it pretty fast.

If you want to try a different game that uses that sort of control, to see if you can get the hang of it, look for Path of Exile on Steam; it's a Diablo-style game, a very good one, and is free-to-play without being one of those annoying restricted types. The stuff you buy for real money is mostly cosmetic items and things of that nature. I can definitely recommend that one.

Yes yes, I wasn't even thinking about the bad community that some of those games have. But that wouldn't affect me too much I think, since I probably would only be playing with those friends that invited me unless I really get excited with any of the games (what I strongly doubt will happen) and start to play competitively.
I laughed at that "denying" thing lol
Strife and Heroes of the Storm actually did looks nice and okay for me to start. Do you know how do I join the beta?
Smite looks... Intestersing but I'm not sure. Though playing with WASD is a huge yes for me I think I would need to feel how this one play because I had mixed feelings while watching the gameplay video.
Oh, and Path of Exile have been on my list for a while! I only haven't played it yet because... Well, clicking. But I think that now that I decided to try something among those lines I might pick it.

For Strife, just go to Strife.com and there's the open beta on the left, it's free.

For Heroes of the Storm, go here: https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/h ... ers-pack?-

Beta entry for that one requires that specific purchase; have a look at some videos of the game first, so you can see if it catches your interest.

Either game is quite easy to learn but has alot of depth. HotS is the one I"m most interested in right now, and I think it's tons of fun. It doesnt take that long to earn enough gold to unlock new heroes, which is good. Some games make it so it takes bloody forever to do that.

Heroes will also require use of the Battle.Net launcher, which is Blizzard's official... everything. All of their games launch collectively from that one launcher. It works out quite well, I'm just mentioning it so you're aware that it'll be there. Fortunately, it's quite harmless.

And one thing I like ALOT about both Strife and HotS: You can choose your hero/character BEFORE entering a game. In Dota, LoL, Smite, you enter a game lobby (usually through the matchmaker), and THEN you pick your character. The problem: Each character is good at specific roles, usually... tank, support, carry, and so on... and if you want to play, say, a support character, but someone else calls out that role first and locks onto a character of that type, well, you kinda got to pick a different one at that point. Strife doesnt do that at all from what I've seen, and HotS has seperate modes; one of them works the traditional way, one works with the "choose before" option.

I love that, because if I wanna play a certain specific character, it's really bloody frustrating to not get to do so for that reason. Though some players prefer it the traditional way, which is fine.

As for playing with friends VS with strangers... yeah, it's best to do it with friends if you can, but playing with randoms aint too bad either. That aspect can be BAD in Dota and LoL; Dota in particular is hyper-complicated, so if you get a player that doesnt already know enough, they'll screw you over, and LoL is very similar in this regard. The other mobas try to balance it out better so that one player being lower skilled than the rest of the team wont utterly drag them all to their doom. Which also honestly makes it less stressful. HotS seems to have done this the best with it's very unique levelling system, I love that aspect. Which also means that the other games tend to be WAY less... angry... than Dota or LoL. You'll be on the receiving end of less fury in those. Though, if you DO get a jerk in your team, dont even bother responding to them: Just mute them immediately, and enjoy the rest of the match. And then report them afterwards if you remember. That advice goes for every one of these games.

Aside from Dota and LoL though, really, the rest of these games dont have that many more jerks per square inch then your typical competitive game of any other sort.

The only thing that bugs me a little with HotS is that it doesnt have items to purchase and equip; but the talents system they use in place of that is still pretty neat.


And yeah, Path of Exile is quite good! Just be prepared for *alot* of complexity if you try that. Just wait till you see that skill tree. There's nothing else like that; I was just outright stunned the first time I looked at it. You can get lost in that crazy thing. Also it's currency system is like the greatest idea in the history of ever. I'm not even going to try to explain it, it'd give me a headache. You'll also see alot more items drop in that game than in Diablo, like, WAY more. Enemies in PoE are more like walking loot pinatas. Why exactly a zombie explodes into a barrage of swords and hats when killed, I have no idea, but that's what often happens.


EDIT: Oh, and if you try out HotS, I should point one thing out to you; the "practice" mode is a VS AI mode, but it's not really the one to get good practice against, because it sets the AI to "dumber than a sack of hammers", basically. They're SO bloody stupid that they'll barely do anything. Go to "custom match" instead, and there's a button in there that just fills all player slots other than yours with AI, and you can then set the level of each one.

Good to know. I'm gonna try Strife first since it's free and I don't think I'll play enough to justify buying the HotS pack, but this might change if I actually adapt to this playstyle and be able to have some fun. I have the battle.net launcher already because of WoW and Diablo, so that wouldn't be a problem.
I tried to talk with my friends about trying other game and found out that it looks like there are some stupid rivalry between the players of those games... Is that true? Oh God...
I've seen Dota players mocking LoL players before, I didn't knew it was actually true to every moba (or whatever), that's so silly. I'm gonna try the ones suggested here first anyway.
And I'm definitely gonna try Path of Exile, despite of the apparent complexity level. I like games with complex and smart ways to customize my combat style, if it works nicely I might get quite obsessed with it (as I still am with Diablo sometimes).
And it's good that it drops more items. Diablo actually drop way way more stuff at highest difficulties but that could and should happen earlier in the game. It's a blizzard trend it looks... Putting so much effort on end game content that they actually forget to give people fun while they are getting there.

I don't know at least on LOL you can just click a spot on the map and the character will go there unless you click somewhere else, its not actually nessisary to repeatedly click till the character gets to the point on the map...I imagine its similar with a lot of the PC games and is the case with most I've tried. Of course people still click a lot to move, I don't because that wears my hand out too much for when I need to click to get away from an enemy or something.