How to choose between two girls?

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The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Apr 2015, 11:44 am

androbot01 wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

You and Androbot, I feel you got stung by my previous post; deal with it

This one?

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

The brain differences found (ie. white/grey matter ratios) between men and women so far are more significant and obvious than the brain differences between NTs and ASs of the same gender.

So no wonder you would relate to NT women more than to AS men.

So the difference between male and female brains is greater than the difference between female autistics and neurotypical females? That they don't share the same experience of autism as men do. So in essence you are saying that autistic women are less autistic than autistic men.

Oh sorry, I was referring to this post:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

I talked about it with a friend. He told me off for dating a fat girl. I told him she was trying her best to lose weight. I knew my friends would react like this. He asked me why I liked her. I had trouble answering. But she seems to like me. The reason I'd date her? I must have a relationship at all costs. I don't want to end up like those forever alones.

You know, taking friends' opinion about a partner is something I've never seen coming from guys, at least this what I've observed in real life so far, but you've just proved me wrong there, I basically laughed because your reminded me of a bunch of girls gossiping (Yeah, I witness female acquaintances all the time doing the evaluation of partner discussion. ie. "he's too fat/ugly/short/poor you can get someone better" - yuck ).

I find this very idiotic, and it shouldn't be anyone's business except you and her, really.

Quote:

The reason I'd date her? I must have a relationship at all costs. I don't want to end up like those forever alones.

I think your ex thinks the same way, return to her. lol.

As for what you said up there,

Quote:

So in essence you are saying that autistic women are less autistic than autistic men.

Lol what...no, how did you even come up with this interpretation?

I was simply saying that that the difference between male and female brains is greater than the difference between autistics and neurotypical of the same gender. That is applied to both genders.

How all this even turned into 'autistic women are less autistic than autistic men' ?

Quote:

I've seen this said here before. I think it is an attempt to once again cast women as "the other." We're really not that remarkable and I'm not sure why we are so resented on this forum.

Boohooo, more invented drama.

You're so creative.

Of course you're gonna hate this forum and hate us the men here if you keep wrongly interpret things that much, for example here you've just put words in my mouth "autistic women are less autistic than autistic men" (which is false and a total wrong interpretation of what I said) and you've deluded yourself to believe this what was really meant, and then you've even dramatized things further, without even waiting for my clarification to your entirely wrong interpretation, by accusing me of doing a conspiracy attempt to outcast a whole gender. Pathetic.

Antharis
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19 Apr 2015, 12:56 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

If a man here calls the stereotypical woman as starfish, you would line up calling him sexist.

I would've gone with Renaissance painting but I can relate to those a bit more.... even more so Surrealist paintings.
Is it an insult if I call someone an xbox console?
In either case, I was going for alien more than pejorative.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Why - I mean why - on WP is so ok for aspie women to complain about stereotypical women (and they are plenty) while when guys do you quickly jump in their throats?

Me? I honestly can't relate to them and I try to be as un-womanly as I can. But I can't say I've ever advocated lying to them, turning them into lists of physical or materialistic pros and cons or openly planning to manipulate or "outwit" them rather than negotiate with them. (some instances I've seen here can't be defined by any other word) .

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

You and Androbot, I feel you got stung by my previous post; deal with it :p:
- yes, steretypical women do gather and evaluate each other's dates, many times negatively; it's something that I have so seen them doing it countless of times, so nauseating; while I have never seen men doing it, - except the OP's nosy friend here.

So it's pretty normal for me to associate this particular behavior to the typical women based on life experience so far. Yes, a group of men may talk about some hot woman over there; but I have *never* hear them giving any opinion about some girl whom one of the present guys is dating.

I will not deny or lie about what I observe, like saying I have seen it done by both equally, just to be politically correct.

Boo, I'll just cut to the chase. Your post didn't bug me at all. I've seen women do that. I've seen them do it not only regarding dates but regarding other women (gossip) and often towards myself. I've seen my own sister approach men in this manner, and I have not had a proper conversation with her in over a decade. This is what I mean by unrelatable.
I've mentioned both genders are just as rotten before, I just happen to encounter more dudes here than women.

The reason I made that post was because I've been trying to get an idea of who I can relate to the most by looking at thought processes because I keep hearing it's easier to find kindred minds within the spectrum, but all I've found is that I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of some of the thought processes I have read about in here, this thread contains some of the choicest examples.

androbot01
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19 Apr 2015, 2:04 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

I was simply saying that that the difference between male and female brains is greater than the difference between autistics and neurotypical of the same gender. That is applied to both genders.

So autistic men are more similar to NT men than to autistic women? That's interesting.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Of course you're gonna hate this forum and hate us the men here if you keep wrongly interpret things that much, for example here you've just put words in my mouth "autistic women are less autistic than autistic men" (which is false and a total wrong interpretation of what I said) and you've deluded yourself to believe this what was really meant, and then you've even dramatized things further, without even waiting for my clarification to your entirely wrong interpretation, by accusing me of doing a conspiracy attempt to outcast a whole gender. Pathetic.

Chill out, Boo. I don't hate you or anyone else on here. Thanks for the clarification. Something to think about.

The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Apr 2015, 2:47 pm

androbot01 wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

I was simply saying that that the difference between male and female brains is greater than the difference between autistics and neurotypical of the same gender. That is applied to both genders.

So autistic men are more similar to NT men than to autistic women? That's interesting.

Yes , and also autistic women more similar to NT women than to autistic men.

Look, the brain difference between women and men are more...."tangible", we talk about things like size (male brain is bigger)and condensation (female brain are more densely packed with neurons), going more deeply (ie.through fMRI scanning) even the manners of processing certain things differ.

While the differences between autistics and non-autistics of the same gender were so subtle that scientists had to use advanced fMRI scanning for detecting any differences, before that they never knew of any difference.

The gender brain difference had been refuted by some feminist researchers claiming that these differences were due to the 'drip drip' gender conditioning and brain elasticity only..... hmm, this can be partly true, brain elasticity had been proven, but that doesn't explain the differences seen in newborns - so differences can't be entirely due to socially construct and brain elasticity.

Then if we are going to adopt the brain elasticity theory at face value, then this can extend to autistm itself, why we should accept the brain sex differences are only due to brain elasticity while auistic-NT brain differences are inborn?
Makes no sense, and there's no strong evidence that any of that is exclusively due to elasticity. My point is, why should we accept one blindly and refute it on the other?

Some of the DSM psychiatrists claim that most of parents of autistics are geeks and nerds, then it's possible there's elasticity factor in autism as well, no?

The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Apr 2015, 3:06 pm

Antharis wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

If a man here calls the stereotypical woman as starfish, you would line up calling him sexist.

Quote:

I would've gone with Renaissance painting but I can relate to those a bit more.... even more so Surrealist paintings.
Is it an insult if I call someone an xbox console?

Yes, I am a PC gamer :lol:

Quote:

Me? I honestly can't relate to them and I try to be as un-womanly as I can. But I can't say I've ever advocated lying to them, turning them into lists of physical or materialistic pros and cons or openly planning to manipulate or "outwit" them rather than negotiate with them. (some instances I've seen here can't be defined by any other word) .

People of both gender do that when it comes to dating, sadly.

And it's pretty common, this doesn't exist only on this forum, it's everywhere.

Quote:

The Autism spectrum is generally a sausage fest.

And I don't believe much in the common belief that the sex ratio is due to 'many autistic girls passing under the radar' - because this
1) would imply that autistic girls have it milder than boys in general.
2) this should be true for low-functioning autistics as well, it's believable that pro clinicians may mistake a high-functioning autistic girl as normal or as having a different condition or that her parents may not notice, but it wouldn't be so believable that doctors would misdiagnose that much severe autistic girls as well or that their parents wouldn't notice....I mean come on - severe autism is a very obvious condition and can't goes under the radar, and yet severe autism is more common among boys, hence the 4:1 sex ratio.

Claiming that the true sex ratio of AS is 1:1 = refuting that AS and severe autism are genetically related and same spectrum.

Quote:

The reason I made that post was because I've been trying to get an idea of who I can relate to the most by looking at thought processes because I keep hearing it's easier to find kindred minds within the spectrum, but all I've found is that I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of some of the thought processes I have read about in here, this thread contains some of the choicest examples.

What about the aspie women here, are you finding it easier to relate to them than to the general population?

androbot01
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19 Apr 2015, 3:34 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Well it's impossible to know another person's experience of autism. I'm high functioning. I think I slipped under the radar because my Mom taught me to pass.

I don't think I would describe the spectrum as a "sausage fest" though. And I'm still not sure why there needs to be differentiation between the genders.

It feels like there is an attempt being made to exclude women from the autistic community based on supposed lesser numbers or severity of autism. I can't fathom why this would be relevant.

RetroGamer87
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19 Apr 2015, 5:05 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Some of the DSM psychiatrists claim that most of parents of autistics are geeks and nerds, then it's possible there's elasticity factor in autism as well, no?

Mine weren't. Far from it.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

And I don't believe much in the common belief that the sex ratio is due to 'many autistic girls passing under the radar' - because this
1) would imply that autistic girls have it milder than boys in general.
2) this should be true for low-functioning autistics as well, it's believable that pro clinicians may mistake a high-functioning autistic girl as normal or as having a different condition or that her parents may not notice, but it wouldn't be so believable that doctors would misdiagnose that much severe autistic girls as well or that their parents wouldn't notice....I mean come on - severe autism is a very obvious condition and can't goes under the radar, and yet severe autism is more common among boys, hence the 4:1 sex ratio.

Claiming that the true sex ratio of AS is 1:1 = refuting that AS and severe autism are genetically related and same spectrum.

Fascinating. That answers a question I've had for a long time.

androbot01 wrote:

It feels like there is an attempt being made to exclude women from the autistic community based on supposed lesser numbers or severity of autism.

Who did that?

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androbot01
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19 Apr 2015, 6:53 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

It feels like there is an attempt being made to exclude women from the autistic community based on supposed lesser numbers or severity of autism.

Who did that?

I guess you don't notice it then.

I know what you mean about not wanting to be alone. I'm finding it quite tiresome. Not because of lack of sex (I have a friend with whom I get together,) but it would be nice to have someone to share my life with too.

Antharis
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19 Apr 2015, 9:00 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

People of both gender do that when it comes to dating, sadly.

And it's pretty common, this doesn't exist only on this forum, it's everywhere.

Yeah and I've always either distanced myself from that behaviour or just outright denounced it no matter what. I'd rather be alone than to surround myself with the sort of people that have that mentality.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

The way I see it is simply this:
AS starts at childhood, ultimately the onus on getting a diagnosis is on the parents, and the parents won't be alerted to anything being wrong if they aren't closely involved with their children (double income families for example) or if the teachers don't see anything. In order to get to the clinically trained eye there's a bunch of untrained eyes the AS kid needs to get through. Maybe the image caretakers have in their minds of autistic boys comes closer to the mark than what they have for autistic girls, who knows?
What I do know is that a huge part of smuggling ourselves as normal women happens to be tied to our physical appearance so maybe that acts as camo? Appearance in women is a pretty good decoy.

Or you could have what happened to me and be born in a place where psychiatry is a joke and AS is pretty much a hipster label. You can even see it online, people use AS to justify being dicks, and without even realizing it's autism (which is a pejorative in normal land). I was not diagnosed until september last year and the psychiatrist in question was amazed that this was the case (I'm an ambulant bird sign to normals pretty much) . For me it was like getting some sort of permission to see the sky as blue or 2+2 as 2^2.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

What about the aspie women here, are you finding it easier to relate to them than to the general population?

With Aspie women, I'm getting a full sense of why it's called neurodiversity. I see idiosyncrasies in others that I only found in myself up until recently, yet I still can only relate to them partially. But then again, I've only seen less than a handful.

Maybe all I really want is a clone and if I get it we'll both have a blast at the fact we don't get a sense of being kindred minds either.

The_Face_of_Boo
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20 Apr 2015, 1:15 am

Antharis wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

People of both gender do that when it comes to dating, sadly.

And it's pretty common, this doesn't exist only on this forum, it's everywhere.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

What about the aspie women here, are you finding it easier to relate to them than to the general population?

Antharis, PLENTY of men here have been diagnosed as adults, so it's not only women who slip under the radar.

It makes no sense, what about the low-functioning/severe autism? Boys still outnumber girls across numerous varieties of ASD, as I said it's totally illogical to assume that severely-autistic girls are slipping under the radar and not been noticed by parents.

Nope, the logical explanation is:

Quote:

The study found that if a girl scored in the top 10% on autistic traits, the odds of her twin scoring in a similarly high range were 37% greater than those for a boy. That meant the girls came from families with significantly greater risk levels. Because the study looked at autistic traits in a sample from the general population, rather than from those who sought treatment, the results do not simply reflect the fact that girls are less likely to be diagnosed, even if they have the condition.

“It is a really interesting and generally well-done study,” says Marjorie Solomon, associate professor of clinical psychiatry at the University of California Davis MIND Institute, who was not associated with the research. She adds, “The differences in gender ratio in ASD have been a source of great curiosity, given their many implications.”

The study was only designed to test the theory that families of girls with ASDs might have higher than risk of the disorders, and was not structured to test for exactly what it is that seems to protect girls. But that knowledge could lead to potentially better treatment options for both genders. Based on earlier research, experts see genes, rather than social or environmental factors, as the most likely explanation for lower risk among girls.

(MORE: Studies: New Clues to the Genetic Roots of Autism)

What might some of those genetic factors be? It’s possible that they may involve the social bonding hormones, oxytocin and vasopressin. “The basic thought is that girls have less vasopressin and higher natural oxytocin,” says Solomon, “And oxytocin is a social hormone, so that would be protective.” The lower levels of vasopressin might also be helpful: while this hormone is thought to be involved in social connections—particularly for boys, who tend to have higher levels — in animals it is also linked to aggressive defense of territory and mates.

and LOL at comments below - like seriously:

Quote:

KuroiAmaterasu Sep 26, 2013
Like all gender differences, particularly when it comes to diagnoses, this is a product of the white male cisgendered patriarchal rape culture.

Just like how Borderine Personality disorder doesn't exist, and is merely a way of labeling innocent women who are acting rationally as mentally ill in order to silence them.

Lets go get a huge posse of bloggers to shout down anyone with facts!

Quote:

ibtlius Feb 24, 2013
The primary reason for autism or any other illness that usually didnt occur in such high level in earlier generations can be single-handedly traced back to age of the mother when she gets pregnant. Average women under the unreasonable, idiotic, influence from militant feminists propaganda have put themselves under extreme stress of trying/proving to 'have it all' without facing the due consequences.

Guess what?, Nature has a simple, effective way of reminding us all who the real boss of this planet is and always will be.

Each and every day, those feminists morons come with yet another way of 'proving' their crackpot concept of 'equality'. No amount of changes to public policy, laws or propaganda can save you sorry assess unless you cure yourselves of the disease of penis-envy that plagues your minds.

No amount of College degrees can guarantee you knowledge leave alone the most important one, wisdom.

lol do you hear that? It turned out that Autism is a patriarchal or feminist conspiracy.

How amazingly alike MRAs and radical feminists are, they should get married from each other.

sly279
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20 Apr 2015, 2:42 am

androbot01 wrote:

sly279 wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

...that will give me plenty of time to better get to know the girl from the lodge, who's nice in other ways, such as being thinner, cuter and best of all, she doesn't want kids

If you'd have wanted to get to know her you would have done so by now.

.

its about going at it without being creepy. theres a girl I've been wanting to get to know for 4 months now, its slow going but If i try to directly talk to her I'll just seem creepy and scare her away. so have to wait for sister to introduce us. which sister keeps putting off and off.

When a person's behaviour is a result of planning and strategy and is not spontaneous, He or she is creepy.
I think autistic people all too often lose the ability to behave naturally when we are made aware of the expectations of others.

well I'd just message her saying I like her but apparently a random guy messaging you on fb is creepy. shes a friend of my sister, so have no common group or place where we'd meet randomly. I guess I could buy a lot of pizza and talk to here but theres still the overwhelming problem that I'm too shy to do that and freeze up. and as women have said here they don't want to be asked out at work, on street, out and about, shopping, etc.

androbot01 wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

It feels like there is an attempt being made to exclude women from the autistic community based on supposed lesser numbers or severity of autism.

Who did that?

theres a few people who seem to feel this way, it seems. hardly a big thing though, they'll probably leave except the one.
I want sex and share my life with. if and unlikely if I ever do get gf it'll probably be super old and lack a sex drive by then

then she'll hate me cause I no need sex. but I won't have to deal with any of that.

RetroGamer87
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23 Apr 2015, 8:39 am

Well, I met the shy girl again tonight and she's still shy. I had been thinking I might ask her out to see a movie but I decided to play it slow based on her reactions to our conversation. She's not that into me yet. She may never be. At very least I should get to know her better.

Her body language was not reassuring. Like I said, she's a shy girl. Her shoulders were hunched forward. More-so when she laughed. I wasn't sure if she was scared of me or just scared of how she might appear. Maybe she has low self-esteem. She talked about how she's a perfectionist yet she knows she can never attain perfection.

Also, her eyes were wide open, pupils dilated. What was worse was that most of the time she didn't look directly at me most of the time. She usually glanced off to my right. She would only make eye contact when she wanted to make a point, at the end of sentences, etc. She could be one of those people who don't like to make eye contact with people.

Some of the things she said, I wondered if she was hinting at stuff. She said something about how we can't always have what we want and we mustn't hinge our hopes on just one plan. Then she said that she didn't cope with rejection very well. Wait, who was being rejected? Her or me? Then when they started packing up the tables she said it was a subtle hint that they were closing. Was she hinting that she was hinting?

Maybe she was never hinting at anything. Maybe everything she said she meant literally. But I have met some girls who speak almost entirely in riddles. Since that stuff she said about coping with rejection, etc came when she was talking about her career plans and how she's having trouble getting a job. She could have just meant she doesn't like getting rejected by employers.

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RetroGamer87
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23 Apr 2015, 8:54 am

I don't know. Maybe she's just to reserved to be compatible with me... or with anyone. I just find it hard o imagine her bieng in a relationship with anyone.

She's intelligent but maybe she's well adjusted than I first thought. She mentioned that she suffered from depression. I don't hate people who suffer from depression but I wonder, which is more difficult to deal with, a depressed girl or a bipolar girl? She said her perfectionism was a part of her depression.

She doesn't seem to like herself very much. I would like to help her feel better about herself but I might just end up making things worse. It's not that I dislike her but I don't know if she would like me.

Maybe I would be better off trying to convince the other girl to come back to Adelaide. She's a lot more liberal. She's not charismatic but she's not so reserved.

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RetroGamer87
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23 Apr 2015, 9:12 am

Or maybe I should have just asked her out. All the guys on Yahoo said I should have just manned up and asked her out already.

It seems to me that my problem is I overthink these things and most of the time I end up not actually asking the girl out. If I haven't been rejected too many times it's because I usually only ask a girl out when I'm almost absolutely certain she'll say yes, which occurs rarely.

With most of the girls I like, the reason I don't end up with them is not because they reject me but because I overthink things and decide they wouldn't like me. So then I don't ask them out. The problem with that is it's like I've given up before I've actually tried.

At least the other dateless wonders here have actually been rejected a lot of times, which means they must have asked girls out a lot of times. I think those who have success with women are those who ask girls out with little certainty. They can accept that they just have a chance. As they ask more girls out their probability of getting a date approaches one, even if none of the girls show any sign of being a guaranteed yes.

I guess I have to overcome my own shyness before I start worrying about someone else's. I fear rejection because I somehow feel like asking out a girl who was going to have rejected me is a sin. Like instead of just saying no she'll be offended that I asked her out in the first place. Maybe this is a delusion.

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