I don't believe anyone when they say they are autistic.

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CharlesMabe
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18 Apr 2015, 1:59 am

I'm 26 years old and I am autistic. I don't say "Asperger's" because I don't believe in using the term. I tend to believe that various instances of autism don't differ so highly between each other that giving high-functioning autism its own label is helpful to the understanding of autism in general. Autism is confusing enough to most people as it is. But I digress.

First, I want to give some background. I lived a miserable first twenty years of my life full of heavy neglect, child abuse, reform schools, botched diagnoses, failure to obtain therapy and any form of useful intervention, and countless other problems. I find my self-worth in life by thinking, writing, and talking about my experiences with child abuse and neglect, autism, and various sciences that contribute to various forms of world progress. I have read about and personally seen a lot of terrible crimes, terrible opinions, and terrible lack of caring. And after all that's happened in my life, I don't trust people.

That is, I don't trust people to make educated or objective opinions. I am an optimist concerning the character and kindness of people and I have many friends. But I don't trust people to be smart and responsible. And after all I've seen and studied, I tend to have a lot of opinions that differ from the most popular ones.

. . .

Now that that's aside, let's talk about autism itself. I have observed that tons of people are diagnosed with autism. Many people are diagnosed as young as two or three, which I find absolutely ridiculous that people think they can come to a reliable conclusion about what developmental problem a child may or may not have when they're that young. I firmly believe that the majority of people diagnosed with autism simply do not have it. In fact, one of the things I've very commonly seen when talking to teenagers and adults who think they have autism is that they "were diagnosed when they were three", "they don't know much (or anything) about autism", and "nobody's made any kind of a deal about it in years". These people don't even have life-complicating cognitive and sensory walls, and both they and I know it. That description is a dead ringer for someone who doesn't have a developmental disorder or anomaly of any kind, let alone the super-overdiagnosed "autism". And I get this description from people all the time.

Furthermore, I'm tired of people not knowing the difference between mental retardation and autism. I even find often that people use "autism" as a euphemism for mental retardation itself, or confuse it with fetal alcohol syndrome, down's syndrome, or tourette's. How many people actually know what autism is? Almost nobody, it seems. It's really not hard to define autism (as I've done so clearly on my blog several times) or to describe the very specific and unique challenges autistic people have. But with everyone having a different definition and all these people narrowing it down to the ridiculously uninformed and useless "social impairment and repetitive tasks"-- and with the money-grubbing psychiatry department loosening the definition in order to diagnose every child they can-- how are you going to get everyone in the same unconfusing boat?

You know, whenever I read a blog written by some parent about their child with autism, the first thing I do is roll my eyes and say "Prove it!" I have seen a lot of things and I have long come to the conclusion that most people are ignorant and irresponsible. The last thing most people are going to know how to do is tell some doctor or psychiatric foundation, "No! My child does not have autism and there are so many things wrong with how and when you are diagnosing him!" And if nobody says "no" about having autism, then when do they know that they do have autism? And by extension, how can they know what autism is?

Does anybody share any of my concerns or gripes? Even if you don't agree completely, do you understand where I'm coming from?


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18 Apr 2015, 5:03 am

CharlesMabe wrote:
I'm 26 years old and I am autistic. I don't say "Asperger's" because I don't believe in using the term. I tend to believe that various instances of autism don't differ so highly between each other that giving high-functioning autism its own label is helpful to the understanding of autism in general. Autism is confusing enough to most people as it is. But I digress.

First, I want to give some background. I lived a miserable first twenty years of my life full of heavy neglect, child abuse, reform schools, botched diagnoses, failure to obtain therapy and any form of useful intervention, and countless other problems. I find my self-worth in life by thinking, writing, and talking about my experiences with child abuse and neglect, autism, and various sciences that contribute to various forms of world progress. I have read about and personally seen a lot of terrible crimes, terrible opinions, and terrible lack of caring. And after all that's happened in my life, I don't trust people.

That is, I don't trust people to make educated or objective opinions. I am an optimist concerning the character and kindness of people and I have many friends. But I don't trust people to be smart and responsible. And after all I've seen and studied, I tend to have a lot of opinions that differ from the most popular ones.

. . .

Now that that's aside, let's talk about autism itself. I have observed that tons of people are diagnosed with autism. Many people are diagnosed as young as two or three, which I find absolutely ridiculous that people think they can come to a reliable conclusion about what developmental problem a child may or may not have when they're that young. I firmly believe that the majority of people diagnosed with autism simply do not have it. In fact, one of the things I've very commonly seen when talking to teenagers and adults who think they have autism is that they "were diagnosed when they were three", "they don't know much (or anything) about autism", and "nobody's made any kind of a deal about it in years". These people don't even have life-complicating cognitive and sensory walls, and both they and I know it. That description is a dead ringer for someone who doesn't have a developmental disorder or anomaly of any kind, let alone the super-overdiagnosed "autism". And I get this description from people all the time.

Furthermore, I'm tired of people not knowing the difference between mental retardation and autism. I even find often that people use "autism" as a euphemism for mental retardation itself, or confuse it with fetal alcohol syndrome, down's syndrome, or tourette's. How many people actually know what autism is? Almost nobody, it seems. It's really not hard to define autism (as I've done so clearly on my blog several times) or to describe the very specific and unique challenges autistic people have. But with everyone having a different definition and all these people narrowing it down to the ridiculously uninformed and useless "social impairment and repetitive tasks"-- and with the money-grubbing psychiatry department loosening the definition in order to diagnose every child they can-- how are you going to get everyone in the same unconfusing boat?

You know, whenever I read a blog written by some parent about their child with autism, the first thing I do is roll my eyes and say "Prove it!" I have seen a lot of things and I have long come to the conclusion that most people are ignorant and irresponsible. The last thing most people are going to know how to do is tell some doctor or psychiatric foundation, "No! My child does not have autism and there are so many things wrong with how and when you are diagnosing him!" And if nobody says "no" about having autism, then when do they know that they do have autism? And by extension, how can they know what autism is?

Does anybody share any of my concerns or gripes? Even if you don't agree completely, do you understand where I'm coming from?


I agree with everything in your first paragraph. After that, not so much.


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18 Apr 2015, 1:56 pm

I will never know for sure if a person is autistic. I can and often after some time suspect some people are and some people are not.

If I went by your attitude and assumed everybody I interact with is not autistic there would no reason to join Wrong Planet. Never mind every member, I would have assume my diagnosis is incorrect and I am not autistic also. That would not change my black and white, literal thinking so I would go back to believing my problems are the result character flaws that have to be solved by trying harder, and trying smarter. But trying smarter attempts would be greatly handicapped by the assumption it's not autism that I am just lazy or fooling myself and using my Asperger "fake syndrome" diagnosis as an excuse.


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CharlesMabe
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18 Apr 2015, 2:10 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I will never know for sure if a person is autistic. I can and often after some time suspect some people are and some people are not.

If I went by your attitude and assumed everybody I interact with is not autistic there would no reason to join Wrong Planet. Never mind every member, I would have assume my diagnosis is incorrect and I am not autistic also.


The forums didn't let me fix my title, so I'm sorry it was confusing. Anyway, I'm not saying that I don't think people are autistic. What I meant to say is that when people tell me they or their kid is autistic, then they are wrong to me until I see otherwise. I'm so used to people being wrong that it's easier to first assume that they're wrong than it is to first assume that they're right.

I know I am autistic though. I know what autism is and how it displays itself. I'm just tired of people always saying their mentally ret*d son has it, and tired of people saying that they have it when they're indistinguishable from the people around them. I've lived through a lot of terrible things because people didn't understand me, so every time your average Joe misunderstands autism, it just enrages me, making me think about how much less traumatic my life could have been if people would just stop abusing or neglecting the label.

I know that I'm not the only one suffering here, so I am ready to confront people about what autism is at a moment's notice. I know it makes me sound like a jerk, but somebody has to clarify autism to people.


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18 Apr 2015, 2:45 pm

CharlesMabe wrote:
It's really not hard to define autism


Agreed, it's not hard to define. It's an overabundance of sensory receptors in the brain, leading to hypersensitivity to sensory stimuli and an overwhelming of the nervous system, causing hyperanxiety, ADHD, poor eye contact, impairment in recognizing and responding to nonverbal social cues, repetitive full-body movements, strict adherence to routine (obsessive-compulsive behaviors) and obsession with subjects of specific personal interest. Oh, and there's the impaired performance in the Amygdala, restricting the range and expression of subtle emotional states, and the Frontal Lobe impairment in Executive Function.

Pretty simple, huh? The really hard part is getting people who have never experienced any of that to understand, much less care, what it all means and how difficult it is to navigate through life in that condition.

You can tell someone who's never heard music that a symphony is "a whole bunch of instruments all playing together," but that isn't really going to help them understand what you're talking about.

I will also agree with you on this point - I think it's a condescending disservice to autistic individuals with sophisticated coping mechanisms to differentiate their condition as "High Functioning" or "Mild Autism," as though it isn't as serious or difficult. As far as I'm concerned, autism is autism, and being able to mask it and pretend to be normal for brief periods of time is not necessarily a blessing, as nobody takes you seriously when you tell them you're having a problem. They always say things like: "Oh, you aren't handicapped, you act too normal to have a disability."

But wait - that's exactly what you're saying about anyone who doesn't fit your expectations of what autism looks like. 8O


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18 Apr 2015, 5:22 pm

If you expect all autistic individuals to express themselves or behave similarly to yourself, then you're doing a great disservice. There's as much diversity within the autistic community as in neurotypical people. There are autistic people of color, autistic people with and without different disabilities, queer and straight autistic people, etc. That's not to say that you're completely wrong. To be sure, neurotypical people aren't very understanding of our needs, our strengths, and our weaknesses. But I don't think I'd trust you to determine whether or not I'm autistic enough to meet your standards, because I already know that I differ a lot from most straight autistic people I've met, in my interests, my coping mechanisms, my appearance, et cetera.



CharlesMabe
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18 Apr 2015, 7:44 pm

halleluhwah wrote:
If you expect all autistic individuals to express themselves or behave similarly to yourself, then you're doing a great disservice. There's as much diversity within the autistic community as in neurotypical people. There are autistic people of color, autistic people with and without different disabilities, queer and straight autistic people, etc. That's not to say that you're completely wrong. To be sure, neurotypical people aren't very understanding of our needs, our strengths, and our weaknesses. But I don't think I'd trust you to determine whether or not I'm autistic enough to meet your standards, because I already know that I differ a lot from most straight autistic people I've met, in my interests, my coping mechanisms, my appearance, et cetera.


Because, you know, traits like race, other disabilities, and sexual orientation are totally relevant to autism itself. People need to stop *over-stating* the diversity of autistic people, because all I'm hearing when that happens is "There is no definition of autism because autistic people have nothing in common between them." People need to understand the difference between "autistic people are individuals" and "autism has no shared traits between its members".


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18 Apr 2015, 8:24 pm

CharlesMabe wrote:
halleluhwah wrote:
If you expect all autistic individuals to express themselves or behave similarly to yourself, then you're doing a great disservice. There's as much diversity within the autistic community as in neurotypical people. There are autistic people of color, autistic people with and without different disabilities, queer and straight autistic people, etc. That's not to say that you're completely wrong. To be sure, neurotypical people aren't very understanding of our needs, our strengths, and our weaknesses. But I don't think I'd trust you to determine whether or not I'm autistic enough to meet your standards, because I already know that I differ a lot from most straight autistic people I've met, in my interests, my coping mechanisms, my appearance, et cetera.


Because, you know, traits like race, other disabilities, and sexual orientation are totally relevant to autism itself. People need to stop *over-stating* the diversity of autistic people, because all I'm hearing when that happens is "There is no definition of autism because autistic people have nothing in common between them." People need to understand the difference between "autistic people are individuals" and "autism has no shared traits between its members".


Race, other disabilities, and sexual orientation will affect the way you're treated by others and condition the way you express yourself. Since autistic symptoms are objective behavioral traits, they're absolutely going to differ between people.

I'm not saying that there are no shared traits between autistic people. Of course there are, or else it would be completely meaningless to talk about autism as a diagnostic category. However, considering that (as an example) autistic women are largely misdiagnosed or altogether undiagnosed, maybe we shouldn't narrow down our definition of autism so much that a f**kton of people will be left out who actually ought to fit under the umbrella, and whose livelihoods depend on understanding their condition.

People understate the diversity of autism as much as they overstate it. The real problem is that autism is very poorly understood even by professionals, let alone by lay neurotypical people.

You're not just saying that we should focus more on what autistic people have in common. I would agree 100% with that sentiment. What you're saying is that you alone are in a position to evaluate who counts as autistic and who doesn't, no matter what the diagnosis by people who've studied autism for years, written books and dissertations, and worked with autistic people during the entirety of their careers. While their understanding of autism may not be perfect, I certainly wouldn't trust your judgment more than theirs.

This is coming from someone who was diagnosed with an ASD by a neurologist in the 8th grade and then remained in denial about it for almost 8 years. Living with autism and not knowing what's "wrong" with you, why you don't fit into society, and why you have the interests, urges, and quirks you do is pretty much hell. Plenty of neurotypical people have told me that I don't "seem" autistic, which is a very invalidating thing to be told, and which has created a lot of anxiety. I just don't think we should be putting ourselves in the position of doing that to other autistic people, just because we don't think they seem like us.



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18 Apr 2015, 9:57 pm

I lived undiagnosed through a several decades when there was a very strict definition of what was autism. The strict definition was not the result of cynicism but lack of knowledge. While living without the diagnosis had it's good points it was all the negative assumptions about myself I mentioned above. In the last couple of decades knowledge and diagnosis increased. Now due the cynicism we are going backwards and losing the gains achieved. Some days I am so frustrated by this trend I think to myself why doesn't the DSM just get it over with go back to the original 1980 infantile autism diagnosis and undiagnosed 85% of the people diagnosed. Money will be saved. All the Autistics that are convinced that there are hoards of wannabees usurping there real autism will be happy. The diagnoses are so not believed it is pretty much useless at this point either there is no help if you are older and the help you are given when young is counterproductive then cut off. Then I remember what it was like and I don't want to go back there and remember many of those cynical "real autistics" will be undiagnosed also and be institutionalized or out in the street.

I know I have said this this often before by why is autism so different that unlike many things in life sub categories are offensive?


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CharlesMabe
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18 Apr 2015, 10:27 pm

halleluhwah wrote:
CharlesMabe wrote:
halleluhwah wrote:
What you're saying is that you alone are in a position to evaluate who counts as autistic and who doesn't, no matter what the diagnosis by people who've studied autism for years, written books and dissertations, and worked with autistic people during the entirety of their careers. While their understanding of autism may not be perfect, I certainly wouldn't trust your judgment more than theirs.


I think you are underestimating how dumb people still are in general about mental health. We all know it's bad, so why do we use the "they're professionals, so trust their opinion" argument at all? You think we're that much more intelligent about mental health now than we were 60 years ago? I don't think so, and I think we all know that when we think about it. Mental health has made little progress over the years. At least we don't electrocute people or send them off to camps, right? Oh wait, some people still do that. And we may not be calling people "mentally ret*d" anymore, but we're still sending thousands of innocent and mentally-well teens and adults to the psych ward whenever we can and then not doing anything but drugging them up and refusing to let them leave until their insurance money runs out. We haven't come that far.

I mean, come on. Statistically speaking, we all know that most mental health professionals don't actually know what autism is. We all know that there are way too many diagnoses of it. We all know that the average layman isn't that much more ignorant than the average doctor. So then why am I the only goddamn person who thinks it's okay to stand against the popular opinion? The argument that "you (meaning me) have no right to say that you are right and that everyone else is wrong" doesn't make any sense from a logical or statistical standpoint. Don't push this "it's just your opinion against the doctors" crap, because statistically, some people have to be right sometimes when most people are wrong.

We all like to give credit to progressive scientists and thinkers in retrospect, but until they take the world by storm, they are just the nut with the unpopular opinion that everyone hates. So when it's us people who understand autism verses the psychiatry department, Autism speaks, and the average Joe, do you really think our opinion is going to be liked? I don't have to be nice to these people who don't agree with me, no matter what degree they may have. I only care that progress is made.


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18 Apr 2015, 11:20 pm

Most of the diagnosed autistic people I know appear to be autistic, whether they were diagnosed as adults, teenagers, or children.

I do think that the diversity of the spectrum of overstated.
Autistic people are not as diverse as people say.
There are many commonalities amongst people on the spectrum.


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CharlesMabe
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19 Apr 2015, 2:38 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
I do think that the diversity of the spectrum of overstated.
Autistic people are not as diverse as people say.
There are many commonalities amongst people on the spectrum.


Thanks for understanding.

I want to make it very, very clear that I do not believe that all autistic people have the same intelligence, notice the same patterns, feel all the same things, or stim the same way. But autistic people DO have a finite set of pattern-recognition differences and sensory issues and they virtually all stim.

I read some cool stuff on the forum the other month where people asked each other how they stim. While I do or used to stim in some ways that I've never heard of other autistic people doing, those stimming behaviors were really just a different way of dealing with the same feelings that many autistic people share. Also I learned that shirt-sucking was a common thing, being reminded that I used to do it too.

But yes, I know I sound negative all the time, but that's because I feel overwhelmed and disappointed by people. I'm sorry. I want you guys to know that many of us probably agree on this subject; and if we're arguing, it's because I presented my argument poorly or sounded like a jerk.

I wish I could edit my original post in this thread more than I did, but oh well.


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19 Apr 2015, 2:57 pm

CharlesMabe wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
I do think that the diversity of the spectrum of overstated.
Autistic people are not as diverse as people say.
There are many commonalities amongst people on the spectrum.


Thanks for understanding.

I want to make it very, very clear that I do not believe that all autistic people have the same intelligence, notice the same patterns, feel all the same things, or stim the same way. But autistic people DO have a finite set of pattern-recognition differences and sensory issues and they virtually all stim.

I read some cool stuff on the forum the other month where people asked each other how they stim. While I do or used to stim in some ways that I've never heard of other autistic people doing, those stimming behaviors were really just a different way of dealing with the same feelings that many autistic people share. Also I learned that shirt-sucking was a common thing, being reminded that I used to do it too.

But yes, I know I sound negative all the time, but that's because I feel overwhelmed and disappointed by people. I'm sorry. I want you guys to know that many of us probably agree on this subject; and if we're arguing, it's because I presented my argument poorly or sounded like a jerk.

I wish I could edit my original post in this thread more than I did, but oh well.

I don't think you're a jerk, and I understand where you're coming from. I just feel like autistic people in general have so much trouble fitting into mainstream society and feeling like a person. It would really suck for somebody to be told that they don't qualify as "autistic" enough to fit into that segment of society either, when maybe their stims and their outward expression of their autism are really different from yours.

And I think this forum itself demonstrates how much autistic people can differ. People argue over whether or not autistic people have empathy (I know I do). Some of us are really into a certain TV show or something, while others are really into the Western literary canon as a whole. Some people here have never had sex and aren't interested; personally, I'm relatively promiscuous, as an extension of my generally poor impulse control.

Of course, deep down we all have a lot in common, and we can work through our differences to show that many are manifestations of similar (if not identical) feelings/thoughts/impulses/worldviews. But I don't know if any one of us is in a position to reliably see past those superficial, outward differences in every case.



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19 Apr 2015, 3:04 pm

halleluhwah wrote:
Of course, deep down we all have a lot in common, and we can work through our differences to show that many are manifestations of similar (if not identical) feelings/thoughts/impulses/worldviews. But I don't know if any one of us is in a position to reliably see past those superficial, outward differences in every case.


Oh, definitely not every case. Not even close. But you can usually easily tell the difference between a person with mental retardation and no autism and a lower-functioning autistic person. And you can almost always tell when a person isn't autistic if they have no autistic traits-- learning and feeling "normally" their whole life (don't take that word too seriously) and being indistinguishable from their peers.

Yet tons of people diagnosed with autism are in both of those groups. Can you judge each individual in those groups as not having autism? No-- you're bound to be wrong often. But you do know that statistically most of those people aren't autistic, even if you can't always pinpoint which ones-- and therefore you know something is wrong with how people diagnose. That's what irks me.


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23 Apr 2015, 6:12 pm

It's a tricky issue.

On one hand, it does seem that "Autism" is slowly becoming a catch-all for any sort of negative impairments, rather than seen as co-morbid. ID and/or muscle problems, does not make an AS person. Nor does tourette's, or brain damage, or whatever other nonsense they want to lump in.

On the other hand, you have a situation, where you can become so proficient at NT mimicry, that your experiences and knowledge becomes invalid. People might say things like you've "overcome Autism", or that you're not an AS person, "you don't have "it"" or even the more offensive version "cured of Autism".

This will be solved once the vile stigmas are no longer being spread, when the majority correctly views AS as the person.



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23 Apr 2015, 7:58 pm

I agree its a tricky.
In the us they lump other neurological conditions like dyspepsia as autism and ADHD can also be misdiagnosed because ADHD is hard to diagnose before age 6. Some schools will also label kids autistic to get the kid services.
They are also better at diagnosing younger because there are better tools. Even if autistic children are one in 55that is less than 3% of the population. I believe its more like 2% The rates of autism aren't as high as people think its just how they choose to look at the math.

Also autism is family of neurological differences its not just one thing. Its a related family of learning differences.
A child can have mild autism and an intellectual disability or they have severe autism.
Some with severe autism have normal to high IQS and have lower IQs.

Doctors have better diagnostic tools. My child who was nearly 3 when autism was first suspected would have probably been diagnosed at 18 months now.