Do you have to 'play the game' esp. as a teen?

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I'm a 16 (turning 17) year old Aspie male.

So, I use to have a crush on this nice girl and went on 3 dates with her before she let me down easy, told me she is interested in women, and we both agreed to be friends.

For the full backstory there is this other post I made in the forums some time ago here: http://www.wrongplanet.net/forums/viewt ... p?t=278545

And now I have feelings for a new girl...

My new female friend has agreed to actually help me try and get to know and date the new girl I like.

Of course I have agreed to help her back in any way if she wants it but it is much harder to meet any nice single women for her unfortunately...

Anyway, the thing is, she's been trying to give me advice on how to talk and get to know this new girl, but it has all only caused disagreements and arguments (not hateful arguments, but just back-and-forth debate). We're basically debating on how you should go about talking to someone and getting to know someone. Do you really HAVE to conform to social norms and dating conventions, or can you do things your OWN way? The past few weeks have given me a lot of time to think and I have undergone a lot of personal development. Honestly, I feel confident. I feel like I CAN do it, that I can talk to the girl I like, get to know her better, ask her out, do all of those things. It's 'the dating game' that messes me up, though. It makes me feel doubtful and unconfident.

It's best I copy and paste some recent messages:

"Her: Oh also. Don't seperate her from her friends. If you go up to talk to them at a lunch break, don't just talk to her, talk to them all. Be casual. If you don't, her friends will see your intentions and will probably ruin your chances. I've seen it happen a billion times.

Me: I wouldn't separate her from her friends, just wait for the moment when I can actually talk to her and only her.
It's HER I want to talk to.
Same thing with just normal friends, too. It's them I want to talk to, not my friend of a friend's.

I'm sorry but I see a girl's friends as little more than an obstacle.
Same with other guys chasing after her, etc.

Her: If you don't meet them, the only oppinions they will have of you are from vague rumors and friends of friends. Girls ask thier friends if they should date someone. Even I do.

Me: Well, what the heck do I do then??? I'm actually feeling a bit miserable now, to be honest. Great job.
I've got Aspergers, I just have...so little interest in social interaction and all that.
I've always said this, and I still think it: I'm not shy, I'm quiet. I simply choose not to talk to other's.
In fact, I PREFER talking to other people first, than other people speaking to me first.
When other people talk to me first I mentally panic and have to quickly think of a reply, and often it's an awkward one or one that comes across as rude or cold.
So yeah.
Do I have to do it then?
Go out of my way to be extra social just to avoid being mysterious?
What's bad about being mysterious to a girl? It makes her want to get to know you better because she knows so little about you, doesn't it?

(Later on after long conversations)

Me: Idk. I really dont. Why am i even talking about all this? Why did I even send that message? Must have been tired because it was at 1am.
F*ck it all. I have to play the stupid 'game' don't I? Because i have to find some way to talk to her more and during the break is the best way to do that and get to know her and force myself to socialize with her friends.
Can't just be mysterious and get to know her and only her.
But now Im just saying the same things from last night then arent i."

I don't want to have to play the game or do things like that. To have to socialize with her friends and be open about myself. It's THE GIRL I want to talk to, not her friends. I feel like there's no way around it, no way I can just be myself...I have to change myself just to satisfy the N.T way.

What have your thoughts on this been?

Should I do things my OWN way with confidence and dedication, or betray my own morals?

I've always done what I've wanted to and do not play any games. I'm pretty socially awkward, don't make eye contact regularly, and am in the habit of making others uncomfortable and yet I've gotten myself in a relationship. I'm a teen, so I'm going to say no, you don't *have* to play "the game". I will say that I've never sought out or been terribly interested in getting into a relationship and things just kind of happened for me, so maybe it's not applicable. My issue with changing the way you act/behave just to get into a relationship is that it's a front that will have to eventually go away and potentially create further issues, so what's the point?

Just a BTW, I'm nowhere close to living a typical life (high school, HS friend group, etc) for somebody my age, so I'm pretty far out of the loop of the expectations and social construct that goes along with it.

On one hand this is possibly about the only time that most of your peers will be as clueless about "the rules" as you are. As well as 'experimenting' being socially acceptable. (Even with people a little older this can no longer be the case.)

On the other hand this also tends to be a time when young people are pressured by teachers and parents to concentrate on academic studies.

It's also a time where social anxieties can be heightened. Partly due to hormonal changes but also due to it being more likely that an AS/ND person will find that they simply don't fit into the rather narrow box which most societies consider the only 'correct' way to have a 'relationship' than their NT peers. (There are now plenty of resources available to help with this on The Internet, which simply didn't exist 30 years ago.)

No, and I'm afraid I'll be of little help since my entire high school and university existence was a giant friendzone (I'm a female).

Life, and relationships are not about eye contact, friends groups and stuff like that but relating to that *person* on an individual level and connecting, deeply, and shallowly, as friends and then as lovers.

I don't know this girl nor your exact circumstances so I can't tell you what to do, but I do know stuff you should probably avoid.

I'd say framing this entire thing as "The dating game" is a dangerous path.



If this isn't your natural inclination, just don't force yourself, or find a way to make it into a more organic situation. Otherwise you might as well go up to them and go "Hey! So how's them bidets?" It'd have the same result with less agony and would save you some time.



You could try chatting online. Is this not an option? At least for the first few conversations up until you're comfortable just hanging out.
Is she surrounded by friends that constantly? (Some women even go to the washroom together), if not, there's no harm in waiting. Talk to her, if her friends come along, just let it happen. Pushy/impatient types really get annoying fast.



You can learn about people by seeing the kind of people they surround themselves with. Take it as a chance to learn more about her.



I understand where you're coming from, but don't become the needy possessive constrictor type please.




In all honesty, they would still abide by gossip unless you actually talk to them consistently (Accept them in conversations where it's you and her, take a genuine interest in them, etc).

But even then, the weight of the opinions of friends in one's decisions varies from person to person. It's not uncommon to take into consideration friends' opinions but I'm not sure how often they predominate over a person's own view and impressions, my guess is not very unless the girl is particularly shallow.



I 100% identify with this.



This gets better with age/exposure.



The line between mysterious and creepy is fine, and it varies depending on how inherently attractive you may be to someone. Unless you are David Bowie , assume what you think is mysterious will come across as creepy.
You become interested in learning about someone through your interactions/interpersonal chemistry. If there are no indications that what's behind the curtains is something you want to see, you won't really care about what's behind it. That being said, it's a terrible idea to give indications of stuff that isn't really there, or to try to "say what they want to hear". You want to establish a connection as yourself, on your own terms, to form an authentic relationship (one that isn't built on BS) You either find each other easy/enjoyable to be around on natural/organic terms, or you don't.

A safe bet is that the more forced the interaction, the worse it'll come across.



Here's the thing about what you seem to call "the game": It is really stupid! If you approach her with a mask, and then remove it, you will come across as dishonest/conniving to both her AND her friends. Not only that, but masks are very exhausting to maintain, no one can hold them up for long without being taxed in some way. I gave up that stuff ages ago.

I think "being yourself" is the best approach.

You can't expect to win if you don't even try to play the game.

Regardless of age, IMO you'll have the greatest chance of success by learning to play the game. Take the girl's advice, IMO.

Seeing it as playing the game carries a notion of "I am going through artificial motions to get to a reward". It's practically a core ingredient for disillusion/resentment.