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btbnnyr
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20 May 2015, 12:24 pm

Rocket123 wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
Neuropsych testing is useful for finding out some things about someone's brain and how they use it, but it is not particularly useful for autism diagnosis, in my opinion.

btbnnyr - Just curious, what does the latest research (which you believe is valid) say about the relationship between ASD and Short-Term Memory and Executive Functioning?


On working memory, the behavioral results are mixed, with some studies showing deficits in working memory and some showing no group differences between autism vs. normal. Discrepancies are probably due to small samples (<10 participants in each group in some studies) and sampling variation. The most consistent result so far is that regardless of performance, fMRI suggests less prefrontal activation on working memory tasks in autism, more posterior (visual areas) activation. In our lab, I am doing working memory project with collaborator (participants are normal people), but one thing I accidentally discovered while testing my task was my huge working memory that was visually operated. We used a n-back task in which you have to remember a certain number of numbers and match the current one with the one n-back, where n = 2, 3, 4, etc, as task difficulty increases. You have to keep updating new numbers and dropping old numbers as they become irrelevant and also keep the numbers in their correct slots. I found that my performance at 16-back was still better than other people's at 3-back, which they found difficult and I found absolutely trivial, easier than breathing. I told my professor that in order to do well on n-back at high n, you should use visual instead of verbal strategy. At first, he didn't believe me, but then he tried my visual strategy, and his performance suddenly improved a lot. Another thing about working memory task is that it generally drops sharply around middle age (~50). My current working memory is considered verbal (but can be solved visually instead), and I am working on a spatial working memory task from hell. Spatial tasks can ackshuly be verbally mediated instead.

EF is made of many components and notoriously difficult to test behaviorally, so it is too early to say much about EF in autism. When going through studies on google scholar, I would take most seriously the ones that measured behavior objectively or found brain (fMRI, EEG, NIRS, etc) differences instead of self-report, parent-report, other-report questionnaires only.


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btbnnyr
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20 May 2015, 12:57 pm

starkid wrote:
So I got the report in the mail today and I am so irritated with it that I scarcely know what to do. Lots of incorrect details, ignoring details, and then telling me that I overfocus on details in the report!

I was mistaken; I didn't take the WMS. I took:
starkid wrote:
Tawaki wrote:
Did you get any testing done?


Wechsler IV
Wisconsin Card Sorting Task
Tower of London
MMPI-2 and MMPI-RF
Millon Clinical Multiaxial Inventory
Gilliam Asperger's Disorder Scale
Rorschach

Wechsler IV - social Cognition
Wide Range Achievement Test - 4
California Verbal Learning Test - II
Trail Making Test Parts A & B

The basis of the evaluation seems to be

1. high verbal IQ and my average/high average scores on the WRAT - 4
2. my (supposedly) superior verbal memory on the CVLT - II (that's the test on which I used visualization).
3. average executive function on Wisconsin test (which was inaccurate due to repeat administration) and superior performance on ToL, on which she apparently ignored my moderately-severely impaired range of time scores and my 3 time violations
4. average scores on Social Perception, Affect Naming, and Faces on the WAIS-IV social cognition test, apparently ignoring my mildly-moderately impaired score on prosody and my moderately-severely impaired score on some called "Pairs" (another auditory social test). Also, some of the Faces scores were also probably inaccurate due to repeat administration.
5. I scored borderline-low probability of AS on GADS
6. they made big mistakes recording my childhood social experiences and perceptions
7. overestimating the role of childhood trauma (I almost wish I had never mentioned that)


For autism diagnosis, #1-3 are irrelevant, results in the opposite direction are not indicative of autism either.
#4 has been shown to correlate with IQ, e.g. reading mind in eyes task vs. FSIQ. None measure implicit social cognition (= fast, automatic social responses of NTs that autistic seem most likely to lack or reduced vs. explicit analysis of faces, affect, social conventions, etc).
#5 is relevant to childhood history, should not be used on adults during adulthood, but only in retrospect about childhood traits.
#6 can only be accurate based on parent report, not self-report. Childhood behaviors observed from other people's perspecitve are more relevant, own adulthood interpretations of childhood perceptions are least informative.
#7 no comment on this, I don't know much about it.

In my opinion, your assessment seemed to have been low on the testing for current autistic traits and reliable childhood history, while your average to superior cognitive performance played too big a role in rejecting autism.


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btbnnyr
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20 May 2015, 1:21 pm

starkid wrote:
Raziel wrote:
I've to say, I don't care much anymore with what I'm dx officially with.

I think that is a healthy attitude to have, perhaps one that fellow WP members could make use of. Some of the things people post on this site make me wonder if they are too caught up in the idea of Asperger's or autism as an identity, so caught up that they are either afraid to pursue a diagnosis because the doctor might "invalidate" their identity, or they can't or won't accept the results of the assessment(s) they've already had. I don't accuse anyone, I just wonder.

Personally, I have come to the same attitude as you've come to (I don't disagree with the diagnoses I was given, by the way). I've had what seemed like some half-assed diagnoses handed to me, and I was frustrated that the doctors seemed to have missed or discounted symptoms, given me shady tests (or no tests, in one case), and misinterpreted results, and so I was on the warpath to get another assessment, a "real" assessment, and so forth; and this was exacerbated by my endless feelings of being misunderstood, which are far and away my most troubling pet peeve (and a large reason for the schizoid presentation, ironically). But now I know that it is foolhardy to expect anyone to see who I "really am" over the course of a few hours worth of assessment, and that diagnoses based on these assessments will necessarily be approximate. They will never be fully-assed, even if made by a psychologist whom I saw regularly.

In addition, reading posts from some of these "identity Aspies" put the idea in my mind that certain kinds of antagonism or distrust towards mental health professionals (or unprofessionals) is a toxic, unrealistic, and fruitless state of mind for me, and that I must accept their mistakes and oversights as part of the nature of humans and the state of contemporary psychology and simply account for it in my expectations.

So now I look at diagnoses in a more practical matter, although neuropsychological tests have become a new interest of mine and I am burning a bit to share with the person who examined me my insights concerning the WMS. :lol: :nerdy:
I'm kind of unsatisfied with this post, but I can't pinpoint why and I'm tired of editing it, so here it is.


I am also disturbed by the autism as identity perspective, I don't relate to it.


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Rocket123
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20 May 2015, 10:24 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
On working memory, the behavioral results are mixed, with some studies showing deficits in working memory and some showing no group differences between autism vs. normal. Discrepancies are probably due to small samples (<10 participants in each group in some studies) and sampling variation. The most consistent result so far is that regardless of performance, fMRI suggests less prefrontal activation on working memory tasks in autism, more posterior (visual areas) activation. In our lab, I am doing working memory project with collaborator (participants are normal people), but one thing I accidentally discovered while testing my task was my huge working memory that was visually operated. We used a n-back task in which you have to remember a certain number of numbers and match the current one with the one n-back, where n = 2, 3, 4, etc, as task difficulty increases. You have to keep updating new numbers and dropping old numbers as they become irrelevant and also keep the numbers in their correct slots. I found that my performance at 16-back was still better than other people's at 3-back, which they found difficult and I found absolutely trivial, easier than breathing. I told my professor that in order to do well on n-back at high n, you should use visual instead of verbal strategy. At first, he didn't believe me, but then he tried my visual strategy, and his performance suddenly improved a lot.

btbnnyr – Thanks for the reply. The n-back test is interesting. I found one at http://cognitivefun.net/test/4, but it uses pictures instead of numbers. Just curious, is there a difference between using numbers or pictures in tests such as these? I know, for me, I am really good with numbers (but not so good with pictures). Though, I am not altogether certain why.

btbnnyr wrote:
Another thing about working memory task is that it generally drops sharply around middle age (~50).

Drats. Well, that explains a lot. LOL.

btbnnyr wrote:
My current working memory is considered verbal (but can be solved visually instead), and I am working on a spatial working memory task from hell. Spatial tasks can ackshuly be verbally mediated instead.

Just curious – are you familiar with the Wechsler Memory Scale (WMS)?