So most of you folks are atheist/agnostic/anti theist?

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Sure, I try to be accurate with information, but I also don't consider it to be a good idea to be over-reliant on Wiki-Pedia.

Now to display™ my pride™ of having a simple-mind™ from my simple-pleasure™ of being amused by the results of the poll now suddenly being for some reason evenly-distributed™ ! (Not counting the last option of course)

Like they say, simple-minds™, simple-pleasures™, and man do I find these current poll-results™ amusing !

Certain branches/sources of Quantum-Science™ (some might prefer to call them "Purveyors of Woo-Woo"™) say that the Earth™ is actually more of some kind of Hyper-Quantum-Computer-Simulation™ rather than being Flat™ or Round™ (several of the underlying Evidences™/Philosophy™/Theories™ having been published by NASA-Physicist Tom Campbell in his book: "My Big TOE" [Theory of Everything]).

You. You I like.




Common sense is a terrible way to do science.



You keep calling things metaphors. These are not metaphors. The placebo effect (it's effect, not affect) is an observable phenomenon, and prayer is a religious practice that exists. A metaphor would be you calling praying "being on the phone with God", where there is no literal phone involved, but the same idea "carries over", which is the literal translation of "metaphor".




Yes, and what possible reason for that could there be? Might it have something to do with this new thing called "italian" not being the same as english? My point still stands; by your reasoning, Malaria isn't a virus, it's bad air, because that's what the word means.

The point I was making was that your reasoning demands that what we call a thing determines its properties. You said that "pantheism" containing the word "theism" by default makes it theistic. Does that mean that "atheism" is a theistic belief, too?




With proof, no faith is required, which is how science operates. With faith, no proof is required, which is how religion operates. Do you see where these are contradictory by definition?





I probably don't have enough faith, but my friends girlfriend is training to be a deacon. So, does this mean that if I ask her to pray for the sun to stop (say, for an hour) three times, there's a 99% chance that it will?




"Moving mountains" would be another example of a metaphor. I did check that out, and while that is impressive, what relevance does it have to this discussion? I'm sure you attribute your strength to your faith, but I think that's selling yourself short: God didn't do that, you did. I'm sure there are people with just as much faith as you who can't do that, so why is that? And do we now determine questions on who can leg press the most? There's a guy about your age on YT that leg presses 2710 lbs, does that mean that his thoughts on the matter are more than twice as good as yours? Or is that idea perhaps somewhat silly? How much do you think Stephen Hawking leg presses?

First of all; I guess you didn't see the thumbs down and comments on Bobby Chiafullo's, so-called 2710 'attempted' world record, as it is half a rep using his elbows on a vertical leg press machine, with sled mechanism, per this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_VSYN8uZaU

Even Pat Robertson; noted evangelist, can do a half rep of 2000 LBS on a vertical leg press machine; not impressive at all.

Well, I am Health Science degree holder; and one of my many hats working for federal service for a quarter of a century is Athletic Director of a military installation; I am well versed on the science of exercise, as well AS verse as a free verse poet.

Oh, and free verse poets can make metaphors out of any word they like to get A POINT ACROSS.

And speaking of language; the modern science of language suggests that all human
language is metaphor at core.

OH, and speaking of vertical leg press machines that provide bio-mechanical leverage
using a vertical sled:

The machine I leg press 930LBS slowly and surely with my arms raised in the air; 14 Reps, putting
all the force of gravity on my legs, instead of upper body accommodation and vertical
sled, is much much harder than a vertical leg press machine; it is a parallel (straight) leg
press machine that I use.

I'll let these twins explain that to you; in 'body builder' language, if you're interested in
how they DO it in real muscle head language, per the following link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtGC3ueHfWk

The noted strongest man to leg press on YouTube is former Mr. Universe Ronnie Coleman
doped up on anabolic steroids to the max; by his own admission.

He does 2300LBS on the Vertical Leg Press Machine; with proper form. However, steroids
do make the difference; as he barely looks human anymore; or even Gorilla, for that matter.

He looks like an alien; and that's what steroids can do to a person.

I have 221 rated testosterone; that of a 75 year old man, off the charts of low;

But that doesn't stop me, as I have the power of the God of Nature working with
me as a domesticated human wild and free again. Yes, chimps and me
are super strong; our advantage is we are not; and no longer, in my case,
functionally disabled by a culture of sitting on one's butt.

The God of Nature is mighty cool stuff; live by innate instinct and intuition
and one can be as strong as a gorilla and still attract young women; closing in
on age 55, on June 6th as such, per me.

Seriously; you don't think I get that strong just to see the weights move; do you;
I am noted by my metro area audience, as a legend of dance; freely dancing a
unique martial arts and ballet style dance; all created innately instinctually through
intuition of the God of Nature manifest in me; and as obviously you are not shy to do
research; which I commend you; as some folks here are too lazy to do a google search;
you can find the evidence of that with me and over 200 gorgeous young females of college
age, grinning ear to ear, with the muse of dance I bring to them, at one of the Top Hundred
FUN dance clubs in the U.S.; Old Seville Quarter in Pensacola, FL, by googling 'God's Muse
of Dance' and there is a new one, '666 months of dance', with over a 100, in a couple of
months. I go there once a week. And yes, I also do this dance everywhere I go in public
stores with my shopaholic wife; now for over 3600 miles, in 21 months, as measured
and documented, by Nike Sports Watch.

Now this might not be all that impressive; and I do appreciate you being man enough here
to at least say the 930LBS press is impressive without all these technical details. That's impressive
enough for this place. Yes, what makes it truly impressive and PROOF of the benefits of working with
the God of Nature, manifest as human nature is that 22 months ago, I cure myself
of 19 documented medical disorders, all in recovery or remission, including the worst pain
known to mankind, type two Trigeminal Neuralgia, which is like having one's teeth drilled
without novocaine, except in my case, the pain is in my right eye and ear; making effective
use of hearing and seeing almost impossible without intolerable pain; for five long years.

Other challenges include Dysautonomia, where my blood pressure and heart rate are no longer
properly synched by my central nervous system, in this autonomic nervous system disorder;
Sjogren's Syndrome, where my eyes quit making tears, like swimming in salt water with one's
eyes open; Severe Degenerative Arthritis in my neck; congenitally fused vertebra in my
neck precipitating early onset arthritis; Fibromyalgia; Anhedonia, PTSD, Severe Anxiety; yes
the list goes on. But the bottom line is there is no drugs doctors can find to even provide
a relief from the pain of Trigeminal Neuralgia during all waking hours of my life; and nothing
they or modern science can do for my other disorders; so they basically just send me home;
to wait to die.

Well, I didn't give up; I looked to nature and within my own innate instinctual and intuitive
eyes of Mother Nature aka GOD manifest in me and healed myself.

So now I ask you; what has your 'GOD of Science done for you lately'.

Science sucks compared to the power of human nature set free as a wolf
or chimp in the wild. I have no limitations friend; as I now know that
limitations can be human killers. And yes, If I believe modern
medical science, instead of the God of Nature that lives in me;
I will still be a 'Hunch Back of Notre Dame', in my underwear
and T-Shirt in my bedroom; instead of a dude in the real
Kingdom of Heaven named a Super Hero and Legend of
dance by both male and female onlookers, and dance
partners, per the extremely diverse; yes, variety
laden female type; evidenced in those links.

When You say GOD is not Nature;
you are either foolish or blind
with little real eyes
of
the God
of Nature;
manifest as
Human Nature
through natural
instinct and intuition,

Trust me; or NOT;
the God of Mother
Nature is your Master;
if you even know
'her' or
NOT.

And yes; I too, am once
functionally disabled
by this culturally
induced myth
come true
of Autism.

But no longer, for
me; I've graduated
from my cultural
produced diapers..

Faith, Hope and
Belief are all
REAL Human
Emotions that
emote human
ACTION;
'JUST DO IT';
IS THE difference
between myth OR
reality; Behind a
screen of scream;
or FULLY ALIVE..

Take it as a grain
of sand or not;
your choice;
but regardless
of what you do;
you never escape
the God of Nature;
and who knows
perhaps in death.
But only Mother
Nature with her
MUCH BIGGER
EYES THAN human
has a 'real' clue
about that;
my friend.
I for one
focus on what I know is
real with 100 faith, hope
and belief in the God of Nature,
and that is simply
NOW
my friend
with GOD.

Why do you think there is a connection? What does collectivism have to do with it, and why attribute to them? A cross section of this forum, shows a mixture of theistic and not theistic views.

The main collectivist non-theistic ideology was Marxism/Stalinist, and that is pretty old news, and most to the Marxist are no longer strictly anti-religious. I think they gave up that idea when they realized they couldn't suppress it. Mao and Pol Pot tried too.

I'm an agnostic atheist too. Even at a child going through religious ritual it never meant anything more to me than some kind of game or play acting.

I do think they could be neurological connection to magical thinking. However I think schizotypal spectrum is more relevant to that. I had this hypothesis for a some time before I learnt that Robert Sapolsky posited the same idea.

These are not completely mutually exclusive neurotypes. So some ASD folk will more likely to present magical thinking, than others.

Some of us, like myself are hyperanlytical types, and don't have a magical thinking mentality at all. That doen't mean we don't have our own neurosis.

^^^

Personality Disorders (PD's) are common in ASD's.

Schizoid and Schizotypal PD's, along with
Obsessive, Avoidant, and Paranoid Personality
Disorders are common.

Narcissism and Anti-social PD's are
almost nonexistent,
per references below.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4145657/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2705351/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2705351/table/T4/

Among folks with Asperger's syndrome; 68% are assessed with 1 PD;
40% with 2 PD's; and 18% with 3 PD's.

PD's are highly co-morbid with Asperger's Syndrome; when
the disorder is assessed separate from Autistic and PDD-
NOS disorder.

And PD's overall, are rare in the old classification
of Autistic disorder, per the linked research;
only 20% are assessed with only
one PD of Obsessive PD;
the only PD; with zero
percent for all other
PD's assessed,
in the research.

I'd just say careful what you wish for - anything could happen as hyperanalysis will still try to square anything novel. I thought I was a pretty hard-line reductive materialist, falling over the line into occultism happened easier than I would have ever guessed.

Yes, change is possible. People describe the way my brain works as a computer that makes no mistakes in my work career.

And until my creative mind blooms; people pejoratively call me a computer with no feelings; in the bigger online world; as my communication is so dry and analytical.

And honestly; looking back, I am dead then compared to now; literally the difference is like death and life.

I do not have a clue what I am missing most of my life; as to why folks live their life for art; with little material reward.

And yes; so nice to start BACK WITH ART; after financially independent; as money is no object for me now, of concern.

And truly that must be most every young artist's dream to have this complete creative freedom;
as so many folks today attempt to even make art into a rigid controlled science of human
behavior. Making a living is nice. But living for art is truly Divine, in all the colors
that comes in, including entertaining the occult and other mysteries of
THE ART OF EXISTENCE AND so much more that can be pArt
of human intelligence, in mind and body balance..

Well, I saw the comments, but I chalked that up to youtube being youtube. I honestly assumed the non-rep was simply discounted. I will, however, defer to you, and accept that his attempt failed. But that really has no bearing on my point: the point I was making was that how much a person leg presses is irrelevant to how valid their reasoning about the nature of the world is.




Yeah, the less said about Ronnie Coleman, the better. The man is the Bob Sapp of lifting; a walking embarrassment with no regard for rules or conduct.



Randomly declaring words to be metaphors in a topical discussion is an excellent way not to get a point across. As is RANDOM CAPITALIZATION!

As for all language being metaphorical, there are theories to that effect, yes. But they don't mean that words can change to mean what you want them to mean at any time you want them to mean that. You are not Humpty Dumpty.

The scribbled lines that make up the word "cow" have no relation at all to the actual animal, as opposed to earlier writing that was based on pictograms. In order to talk about a cow succinctly, we have a set of symbols in a particular order that describe the concept of a cow. So the meaning of the animal "cow" has "carried over" into the symbols-in-specific-order making up the word that describes the concept of a "cow", and is in that sense a metaphor.


I have no way to evaluate this information.




I'll concede the benefit of working out. The connection to God, I don't see. All this shows is that the human mind is a very powerful thing, far more so than people give it credit for, which I think rests at the core of the problem. You speak of superhuman feats, but how do you claim that and get out of declaring yourself "not human"?

I'm very glad you're well and/or better now, but this proves nothing of what you're asserting. I can recognize your impressive achievements without conceding your conclusion, which does not follow.

Stephen Hawking was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's Disease at age 21 and given 2 years to live. 52 years, at least one space flight, two wives and three children later, the man is still alive, aged 73. The man who has been called the most brilliant scientific mind of our time isn't one to give up. Also, he's an atheist.

Bruce Lee severely damaged his 4th sacral nerve lifting weights, bringing into question whether or not he would ever kick or even walk again. He resumed both training and instructing despite chronic pain, until his death three years later. Also atheist.

So you see, by deduction, we can confirm that belief in God has no bearing on whether or not a person has extraordinary willpower. Some theists don't, some atheists do, and vice versa.




Tried checking that out, found video of woman singing and cat pictures.

Tried googling "666 months of dance", found every D-list "satanic" metal band ever.

Also, I'm sure you'll forgive my being unimpressed by a married man pointing out how many random young girls may or may not be attracted to him. Especially since I would consider a man of 55 to still be in his prime.

But I digress; being a great dancer/martial artist is also not proof of the validity of your beliefs.




Now, I don't deny for a second that you were in a bad way, but I know for a fact that there are medications and treatments for more than one of those, so "being sent home to die" sounds a little melodramatic, except in the sense that we all are. Also, "congenital" means you were born with it, so that's not a thing you came down with recently. Also, there's more than one of those that seem like they might be interelated (Severe Anxiety, PTSD) or otherwhise related (Neuralgia and Fibromyalgia are both pain disorders), but I'm no expert, so don't take what I think on the matter too seriously. I do, however, know that there have been some interesting developments in using MDMA in treating both pain disorders and PTSD as well as the anxiety related to autism, so if that's interesting, check that out.

(link: http://www.mdmaptsd.org/)

As for your recovery, I still deem the spontaneous remission of 19 possibly unrelated conditions to be a more likely scenario than magic.


No. When you say that nature is god, you are saying that none of this works on its own accord. It's all held together by the brand of magic you like to imagine. You say that nothing is worth discovering, just marvel at the magic, don't ask how it works. You speak so highly of intuition, instinct and "common sense", tell me; when you cross a street, do you look both ways, or do you just imagine not getting hit by a car, and expect it to be so?

Also, why do you keep going back to the Gospel of Thomas, while ignoring the other gospels? Is the god you imagine nature to be the christian god? If god is pantheistic, why does he care about sin, impregnate virgins and hate gays and lobsters? Nature simply is, and you ignore its workings at your peril. Why would it care about you worshipping it?



Emotions are real, but not everything you imagine is. A paranoid person may be convinced that everyone is plotting against them. That has no bearing on everyone else. As for belief, we have overactive imaginations, a sense of our own vulnerability and grossly oversized adrenal glands. It's no wonder we imagine monsters in the dark.

Also, why do you go crazy with the enter key at the end of all your posts? Is this more of that "free verse poetry" you spoke of earlier? If so, I recommend saving it for the poetry slam. It's not helping your readability.




That adds up to 126%. Or do you mean that those that have AS+1PD are also counted in AS+2PD etc.?




I'll be nice and ignore the God part of this question (science is a method, not a deity.), and ask you in return; are you seriously posing this question while using a device that 200 years ago would probably have resulted in you being burnt at the stake, and the marketing of which was begun in your living memory?

You ask what science has done for me lately? I'll extend the question to include more people and a longer time span. What has science done for us? Well, there's Norman Borlaug, father of the green revolution, and a man who saved one billion people from death by starvation. Then there's Alexander Fleming, discoverer of penicillin, and if you've ever needed that, you should probably be grateful. Then there's John Tomes, who developed the procedure for removing impacted wisdom teeth (which I had one recently), a condition that is extremely common, very painful, and if infected, potentially fatal. Nikola Tesla, Alfred Nobel, Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin, Luis Pasteur, Gregor Mendel, These are the people to whom you owe thanks for the standard of living to which you are accustomed. You, sir, are standing on the shoulders of giants and praising the ghost in your mind for letting you fly so high.

eeeek. Malaria is caused by a parasitic protozoan, not a virus.

Your post is great and I agree with your stance but that was just giving me the twitches and I couldn't relax until I corrected it. carry on....

I stand corrected again, and this one I should have caught. Thank you. I was actually thinking about something I read about the HIV, and then misremembered it it as having been about malaria because it involved mosquitoes.

I would edit, but it seems I am unable.

Also, the current percentages in the poll add up to 101%. I smell shenanigans.

Using Caps in lieu of a buggy software platform is certainly not random. Many folks use that method for precisely the same reason, on this very website; in case YOU haven't noticed; smiles, IN terms of BOLD.

And in terms of walls of text and a new 'Twitter World' of science measured folks with average attention spans of 'Gold Fish'; putting walls of text in bite size chunks is extremely effective compared to the alternative of a GASP OF TL;DR FROM the start.

While my style of communication may seem odd to you; it works in terms of 'gold fish', my friend; it is much better than walls of formidable text, as my mind works just a little 'faster' than most, if you get my drift.

I provide the table for the statistics by way of link. Of course, one does not add up the percentages; they are based on specifically percentages of 1, 2, or 3 disorders total; not percentage total. But anyway; the link makes that clear.

One has to use the quote marks to find the appropriate pages per what I provide in text;
while I use fairly original titles; they are not original enough to find without the quote marks.

And when you get that many photos of gorgeous girls with you; please let me know how you do that.

I just show folks single or not; HOW IT can be done; but my success is irrefutable in the FACTS of those links.

Please understand THERE IS NOTHING SUPERNATURAL about my GOD of Nature.
It is all real all the time. All ya gotta do is figure out your human nature
in relationship to the God of Nature; and you can do all REAL human
miracles too. But yes it takes the development and practice of all
real human innate instinct and intuition. Use that or lose that
does most definitely apply.

And OMG, common sense; of course the doctors did not literally tell me to
go home to die. Commonly doctors do not even tell folks their time
allotment to live with cancer; per the specific issue of the NOCEBO
EFFECT. AND to be clear, affect means emotion; and belief is
EMOTION, believe that or not, smiles..

I continue to use more and more cues; not to confuse or to confuse,
as that is a case I cannot control, per the perceptions in lives of others.

Metaphors are more complicated that cows friend. And I for one
have a much more complex mind than most; but never the less
I am what I am; and what I am, I am free to be; THANKS
TO the God of Nature provided Nature as me..

Have a great day; Try dance sometime; you
might not attract women; but mind and
body balance is mighty
cool all natural
GOD GIVEN
STUFF..

And as far as chronic human stress goes;
of course many disorders are related;
that's nothing new I am
aware of
friend.

And yes, the congenital issue is just
provided as relationship as yes it
does mean I was born with
that; however, I have absolutely
no pain now; to the utter amazement
of doctors; in fact they still will not release
me to go back to work; as their medical
science manuals say; no go; I'm still sick.

Honestly, science in terms of human health;
not frigging tools, obviously derived,
as I love to use; but science in terms
of actual human well being is
truthfully light years from what
I for one, can do with all
innate instinct and intuition;
as already proven here with
the irrefutable evidence I do
provide; with smiles of course;
as that is part of my
WHOLE PACKAGE
OF WELL BEING,
friend.

There's nothing here,
particularly new, or special
per individual achievement
IT IS THE WHOLE PACKAGE;
that is just a 'little' different..

The fact is it works.

That's the bottom line
beyond any words....

The gnostic Gospel OF THOMAS just presents the reality
that God as nature is nothing new
under the SUN..

IT's FRIGGING COMMON SENSE. That any animal 'knows'
without even having human language.

And yeah; I can talk to the animals too;

but nah; not with words; with empathy
for Nature; a real deal; and a real type
of enhanced human all natural intelligence
EXPANDED, in my case, and the cases of many
others; who are gifted and practice it like 'WE' DO..

Excellent, you're conceding my point. Nature is real. Magic is not. A god is magical by definition.
Ergo Nature =/= God, and God =/=Real.

I win.




I don't think your mind works any faster than mine does, but I have no doubt that you type more than you think; you have a pronounced tendency to ramble, and much of what you write is indecipherable nonsense as a result. I don't mean to be rude, but you continually dismiss things I say as somehow being beneath you, with no thought for the possibility of the reverse being true.



See this? This is what I mean. I used the simple word "cow" to describe in what manner language is metaphorical (and how it's not the way you think it is), and you do the intellectual equivalent of hitting it with a club and saying it's stupid.

I've asked you a multitude of clarifying questions the last three or four posts, most of which you have blatantly ignored. I've challenged you on multiple points, elaborated on how your reasoning does not hold up, and you respond with assertions upon assertions without considering any of my responses, and shout "common sense" as though it was a foolproof counterargument even after you've had it explained to you how it is not. I can see I'm getting nowhere, because reason and logic are not your forte. Well, now I'm bored with you.

Consider this my mic drop.

Ha! No! A God is Not magical by definition.

Pantheism; is a real religion dude; It's not my religion; but never the less it is real and all real.

And yes, my free verse poetic words are assessed by veteran poets as in another strata, amazing, astounding; and just a lot of text by a few much narrower minded 'conservative' thinking others; Yes, I can prove that with links and quotes too..

To be clear 'conservatives' (narrower minded folks) are just another part of the god of Nature; they can be frustrating; but I love them all the same.. Different strokes for different folks, friend; just cause you cannot understand does not mean that others do not totally understand. And just 'cause you think that God is magic; does not change the fact that Pantheism is a theistic note religion and is totally real and not magical.

That is an irrefutable fact; and of course you are welcome to your individual opinion.. In fact, I will die for your freedom of expression. That's how much it means to me; with BIGGEST SMILES..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism



Mod edit: removed line breaks and excessive capitalisation

Last edited by The_Walrus on 03 Jun 2015, 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.: Disruptive formatting removed (post originally had ~40 line breaks)

Monotheist here (Christian; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit reign as one triune God both now and forever, and unto ages of ages).

Some excerpts from pantheism.net, home of the world's largest pantheist organization

Ask us what we believe.

If someone doesn't believe in consciousness extending beyond the human nervous system or the nervous systems of other highly evolved animals (of if their lenient anything we recognize as living with a neurochemical cascade at all) then it's really difficult to call their belief set anything other than reductive materialism.

The word 'supernatural' also has the suggestion of 'fictitious bollocks' compressed into the relationship between it's prefix and suffix. If it's not natural it can't exist so there's no point in us worrying about a supernatural thing or event, but then the definitions of what's natural or supernatural are also quite likely to be a very flawed and arbitrary at this point in time.