Schizotypal similar to ASD ? What do you think

Post Reply New Topic

Hi folks,
haven't posted in a month or two :>

So I'll let you guys in on what's been happening.
Been going to this new psychologist (she's up on her MD's, Ph.D.'s, accolades, charity winner prize statues, and what not) and I came to her telling her that I suspect that I my have ASD (of some kind).
So I came in next time to do testing (did two major tests).

After a few appointments together with her, she comes up with a diagnosis:

Schizotypal

Which technically is on the schizophrenia spectrum (not too happy about that), but I also heard people say that schizotypal is also on the Austism spectrum.

My psychologist said I was barking up the RIGHT tree with all my symptoms (self-assessed).
And in that regard, she was impressed, because very few people of my type seek diagnosis, nor try to dianose themselves.

I'm still not sure Schizotypal is a "real" diagnosis.
If you look it up, it really seems very unscientific, and very silly.
Like, "if you're schizotypal, you have magical thinking" (without defining what magical thinking means)
and "if you're schizotypal, you're likely to believe in big foot and ufos"...... uh, .... really ?
What a stupid definition of "schizotypal".

I think the Neurotypicals made up that label to pigeon hole people they can cleanly classify as either clearly on the autism spectrum, or clearly on the schizophrenia spectrum.

So again ! !! I'm caught in meaningless metaphysical no-man's land.,

Thanks a lot.

No really.

I think my psychologist may have gotten it wrong.
Because I like conspiracy theories (don't even believe in most of them, but i love to learn about them :>) and I believe that UFOs exist, that doesn't mean I'm schizotypal, or whatever. Basically calling you "Schizo Lite". "Hey, what's up Schizo-Lite ? How's is hangin' ? " ....

Seriously though, I think I'm more autistic.

And she may have gotten it wrong.

What do you think ?
Do many actual ASD people get diagnosed as schizotypal first ?
Have you been diagnosed schizotypal before your current diagnosis ?

Seems like a grab-bag for wizards, warlocks, and other strange people.
Schizotypal

A lot of people (including, surely, some professionals) misunderstand what it means to have "unusual beliefs" in the context of schizotypal disorder. They think certain mainstream religious beliefs, like Christianity, are normative and anything outside of mainstream is a sign of being delusional. That's not how it works. Beliefs that are unusual can still be normative for a social group. Like if you visited a tribe halfway around the world somewhere, they might have spiritual practices that seem unusual and delusional to Westerners, but it would be normative within the context of their culture. A belief in UFOs, conspiracy theories, etc. similarly can be normative within certain subcultures.

Having unusual beliefs is just one symptom of schizotypal. It doesn't just coincide with the other symptoms, it is interwoven with them as a pattern. What I mean is a person evaluating you shouldn't make your beliefs the focus of the diagnosis. Schizotypal disorder is driven by fear and avoidance of other people. The unusual beliefs are applied to that purpose, and lead to distorted perceptions that cause difficulty in social interactions.

And to qualify as a personality disorder, the traits have to have been acquired developmentally. It would have come on gradually throughout your adolescence and led to a pervasive pattern in how your personality was formed and how you relate to other people. It would not have been acquired simply as a response to an event that made you question or change your old beliefs.

My point was if this psychologist is diagnosing you as schizotypal primarily on the basis of being interested in conspiracy theories, or UFOs, it sounds like she doesn't know what she's doing.

dianthus,

I hope she didn't base it solely on that.
Because I did tell her I believe in those things.
So does that mean every UFO researchers has schizotypalism ?
(I'm sure the cops, politicians, and other political organizations would salivate at the mouth for that to be true; because then they wouldn't have to call you a terrorist to destroy you or murder you; all they have to do is point a finger and say "UFOs" , and the pigs and the wardens in white lab suites will rush in, strap a funny-jacket on you, and haul your ass away ! ! )

I think she was taking all the evidence (and more of her own , you know, just watching me, how I act and how I answer her, etc.) into account.

schizotypalism explains some things I have (apparently) that I think many autistics don't have.

I hadn't thought of it in quite this way, but it actually is rather strange, isn't it, that believing that an invisible object in the sky created talking snakes, giants and huge winged beings that were never born and therefore can never die, punishes people invisibly and sent its child down to earth without the benefit of sperm to perform magic, die and, posthumously, stand up, walk around and talk, later to be lifted into the sky on a giant cloud as an undead being, is not only entirely mentally healthy but can and should be encouraged...but belief that, based on the fact that there's intelligent life on this planet that travels in space, there might be a similar situation on another similar planet, or belief that there may be as yet unidentified animals on the planet, supports a schizophrenia subset DX.

Also, is not the idea that if one closes one's eyes and speaks to an invisible immortal creature one will experience magical healing, get a better job, find a mate, etc. magical thinking?

Let me be clear, I am not putting down and am not minimizing religious belief in general nor specific (i.e. Biblical) dogma; for all I know, that's all 100% true and I just somehow don't have the capacity to believe it, I am open to that possibility among many. I just am not getting where that invisible cutoff is between "that's just crazy" and "you are inspired, pious and very, very mentally healthy" when ALL of these possibilities, including the accepted religious ones, rely on absolute belief that something which can not be seen nor verified in any scientific way is an intelligent agent that exists and even may influence, indeed control, one's daily life and in some cases, is even "talking to" the believing individual and giving the belieiver instructions on things s/he must go forward and do, without anyone else being able to hear it, see it, or even verify that it exists anywhere but inside the person's head. (Whew, epic run on sentence, that may be a record!)

One is pious, beautiful and something to actively strive for, including in groups.

The other is "quick, grab the tranquilizers."

Ironic...and very, very illogical.

Just my view, nobody is required to a free with this or anything.

What things do you think it explains?

IIRC, personality disorders occur in about 10% of the population, which makes them 10 times more frequent than ASD. So, the doctor may have seen lots of PD patients and zero ASD patients. In that case, IMO, they'd tend to lean toward the diagnosis they're more familiar with.

Also, IME, a doctor being a good in the eyes of other doctors (credentials, awards, etc.) doesn't necessarily mean that they're good in the eyes of their patients. I.e. a policeman can be under investigation for multiple excessive force complaints while simultaneously winning awards from policeman's associations. And again, with ASD being compartively rare a doctor, even with lots of credentials, may not know much about it.

I have the impression that medical training is pretty pragmatic. There is a very rare condition called adrenal insufficiency where about half of the diagnoses are made at autopsy, because the average GP (think ER doc, let alone EMT's) get between 0 and half of one lecture on the subject in medical school about it.

For me schizotypal and Asperger diagnostic criteria seem very alike.

Schizotypal traits:
Being a loner and lacking close friends outside of the immediate family
Incorrect interpretation of events, including feeling that external events have personal meaning
Peculiar, eccentric or unusual thinking, beliefs or behavior
Dressing in peculiar ways
Belief in special powers, such as telepathy
Perceptual alterations, in some cases bodily illusions, including phantom pains or other distortions in the sense of touch
Persistent and excessive social anxiety
Peculiar style of speech, such as loose or vague patterns of speaking or rambling oddly and endlessly during conversations
Suspicious or paranoid ideas, hypersensitivity, and constant doubts about the loyalty and fidelity of others
Flat emotions, or limited or inappropriate emotional responses

Most of those could be easily interpreted as Asperger traits. Especially if someone happen to have special interest in the paranormal (I did for a while).

From what I see the only clear difference is that schizotypal disorder "starts in adolescence" and Asperger traits are visible since childhood (although "may not become problematic till adolescence").

However I heard that there is a huge difference of how someone schizotypal and how someone with Asperger appear to NTs.
Schizotypal is discribed "like the haunted old lady that lives with bunch of cats, wears weird symbols and says the apocalypse is coming because her dead grandma appeared in her dream and said so and as she woke up a politic in TV said something suspicious".
Asperger seem more "like robots or aliens" and even if someone with Asperger gets interested in paranormal they study it in scientific way rather than simply believe it.

I am diagnosed with both Asperger's and schizotypal disorder (and also OCD). My "otherness" started in childhood, was well visible when I started attending to elementary school. Paranormal things were interesting for me since childhood. I have not as much schizotypal symptoms when I was younger (to about 16th year of life).

For me my PDD fits better to "schizotypal continuum" than to one spectrum with childhood autism (which is associated with idiosyncratic sensory processing, need of sameness and predictability, rigid and concrete thinking, prosopagnosia, hand flapping or body rocking, deficit of theory of mind, weak central coherence, concentration on details and problems with generalizing, sometimes also serious problems with speech development, echolalia, pronoun reversal). I rather do not see traits of Kanner's syndrome in me. My condition is significantly different than "typical" autism spectrum conditions.

My mentality is not interested in socialisation and in being loved by other people and likes "one-sided" interactions and conversations. I have marked problems with nonverbal communication (for example I do not remember thinking about eye contact so much when I was below 16) and was bullied in school when I was about 6 - 15 years old. I have "fixated" interests (in childhood for example road signs), like maps, statistics and doing simple, repetitive activities like handwriting and fruit picking, was few times described as "hyperactive" in school, I like to walk without purpose, to fidget. I significantly do not like physical contact too cold or too hot water, being needled, hairdo making, I have quite narrow menu. I was poor in Physical Education (for example volleyball was very problematic), rather can't bow a tie and learned how to tie shoes quite lately.

Guys, I think I did something wrong. I got "your post has been successfully reported," so I think instead of submitting, I accidentally reported my own post or someone else's.

Anyway, here's what I wrote: I see belief in the paranormal listed twice more here as part of supporting evidence for a schizotypal DX. I am still not fully understanding this. How is belief in one or more aspects of the paranormal - belief in the possibility of certain beings that has not been confirmed scientifically nor definitively - support for a schizotypal DX while religion, which is belief in a supernatural being (or beings) that are not able to be seen or heard by others, have magical powers, are immortal (a concept never yet supported scientifically in any living creature), have control over and a vested interest in a person's daily life and speak non-audibly to people in order to direct them in what they should and should not do, not support for a schizotypal DX?

I'm not being sarcastic or facetious nor am I trying to be a dog with a bone; rather, I think I'm missing a nuance here.

A few examples of what I've heard people say of religion/God (these are all paraphrasing):

* God speaks to me. I don't care that nobody else can hear Him. I know for certain that He's speaking to me.
* God tells me what to do. If I don't do as He says, I fear I will be punished severely.
* If I pray correctly, God will send me rewards magically. (The person doesn't typically say "magically" but that's the assumption. If the need/want were obtainable in a practical way, it would already be happening and/or would be attainable for the person without the need for supernatural intervention.)
* I realize there's no scientific evidence for God. That doesn't matter. In fact, were I to require evidence, that would be bad and would be evidence that I'm not special (have not attained "grace") in some supernatural way. I simply KNOW there is a God, and I don't care what anyone else says. Even if scientific evidence were somehow to suggest the contrary - that there is no God - I would continue to believe.
* I asked God for a sign that He heard me. A few minutes later, I heard a certain song on the radio. That is proof that God exists. That specific song occurred at that specific time because God wished to send me a secret message that He's real.
* God watches everything I do, from morning until night. He is aware of all that I do, good and bad. If I do good, He will reward me. If I do bad, He will punish me eternally.
* God can bypass any and all physical and natural laws. If God wants to make the earth stand still, He can do that.

These aren't considered schizotypal but "I believe there may be animals science hasn't yet discovered" or "since there's life on this planet and since we can travel through space, I believe there could be life on other planets and intelligent life forms similar to us could travel through space" are?

I can tell you with 100% certainty that I've never heard a person say s/he believes Bigfoot can perform magic, watches his/her every move and is immortal. (I don't believe in Bigfoot, BTW. I'm just bringing that one up because it was mentioned.)

Somebody help me "get" this.

Last edited by NowhereWoman on 21 Sep 2015, 10:57 am, edited 3 times in total.

Ugh dagnab it, what is wrong with my computer this morning...or my head, LOL...sorry...DP

What would make the difference is whether the person giving the diagnosis has a personal bias against certain beliefs. A professional could have a bias against paranormal beliefs, and misread this as an indicator of schizotypal or even schizophrenia when it's not. Or, a professional could just as well have a bias against conventional religious beliefs, and likewise misread this as an indicator of schizotypal disorder. Some professionals are very science-minded and have a bias against ANY type of religious or spiritual beliefs.

What would support an accurate diagnosis of schizotypal, is if the person's beliefs are incorporated within a larger pattern of traits that involve paranoid avoidance and suspicion of other people. Schizotypal is one of the cluster A personality disorders...the other two in cluster A are schizoid and paranoid. All 3 of these share some similar traits. To understand schizotypal, it might be easier to think about the traits of paranoid PD first...a person who is pathologically suspicious and distrustful of other people. Then imagine that paranoia being filtered through a set of "odd" beliefs, and the beliefs are used to reinforce and justify the paranoia.

A person with conventional religious beliefs could be schizotypal just as well as someone with very unusual beliefs. The type of beliefs the person has isn't really the issue...it only becomes an issue if the person making the diagnosis has a bias for or against certain beliefs. But it's not what the beliefs are that makes a person schizotypal, it's how those beliefs are used by the personality.

A good example in the movies of a schizotypal character is Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver.

This makes so much sense, thank you.

You're welcome

Some of you are going WAY off the deep end here in this thread.

You don't have to quote every NeuroDiverse Abuser's fantasies about what they think schizotypalism means, or what symptoms they should have.

Through my researches, I've seen 2 articles admitting that the schizotypal label is really just "schizo lite" , since the idiot professionals can't seem to pigeon hole you into a solid psychological category.

Yes, we're human beings, some of us are odd, some of us consider greater things in the world, some of us are curious what's really going on here on this planet (and if you look into it, the more confused you will get, until you shed the normative cloak your parents and society handed down to you), however that doesn't mean there's something pathologically wrong with you if you have beliefs that are different from the mainstream, and it doesn't mean you are a danger to society. Mainstreamers love that. Seeking out "the monsters" of society , and guess what, then they go to their home and murder them, or imprison them, even though they have commited NO crime.

I'm telling you, to those who will listen, there's ample evidence (besides what you hear from me) that human beings are pathologically violent, and they carry out their violence (at all levels) with great adept skill. They even admire to what heights of insanity they have taken their subtle violence to. Astounding. I never liked it. I never appreciated it. Therefore I pay the price. Homelessness, bankruptcy, unending persecution, being revialed all the time (when I express my feelings), being shut down when I question things, non-transparency, and just basic human corruption.

Just think outside the mainstream box and consider that these lables (schizotypalism) may be just a grab-bag to label people with. Indeed, criminalize them.

Funny thing, with all my symptoms that are clearly autistic, I subconsciously subscribed to the popular movie image of the Rainman. Which I'm sure you're familiar with. However because I believe in certain things, ufos, conspiracy theories, etc. all of a sudden I'm compared to Robert DeNiro in Taxi. Not something I relish. Consider that this is just a Disney/Hollywood characterization. Many psych videos online compare schizotypalism to the crazy guy in Taxi. Which is sad, and frankly is just a way of criminalizing people who are non-mainstream.

Be aware of the fact that you are indirectly criminalizing innocent people by subscribing to this stupid label.
Not to mention, repeating all the stupid "symptoms" of schizotypalism that you somehow got hold of. Vast majority of you don't even question the source of these characterizations, especially if that person or channel touts a lofty degree of some kind. Talk about brainwashing.

Never forget. Nobody can brainwash you more than an empty suit with a degree can. That includes women.
Women wear suits too, here in the 21st century. Don't be fooled by this propaganda that "if you're male, then you're guilty of something, and if you're female, you're chaste as the fresh fallen snow." Funny how the ones yelling "we need equality" all the time are the most biased, most corrupt and the ones who have the most to lose in this upside-down system.