Liar's Paradox

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thinkinginpictures
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18 Feb 2022, 8:27 am

This sentence is false.

Discuss.

txfz1
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18 Feb 2022, 10:39 am

It goes well with the “all humans are liars” paradox. Circular logic as if the sentence is false then it would be contradiction and true. The aspie in me breaks down the sentence structure and the noun is a thing and does not have a conveyance of truth as a word but does when used as reference. When used as a noun for law it makes the paradox even more fun, as it put the onus on the word false, can a term of punishment be false? Unjust or inhumane? Context come into play as a noun for law. When used aa a noun for music, it seems to lose the logic unless you apply falsetto to the adjective.

Aspiegaming
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18 Feb 2022, 12:30 pm

Um, true. I'll go with true. There, that was easy. To be honest, I might have heard that one before.

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thinkinginpictures
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18 Feb 2022, 2:28 pm

txfz1 wrote:

Kurt Gödel made a substantial amount of work on this one, using purely math to "solve" it.
It's known as Gödels Incompleteness Theorem.

It turns out, using math, that you can predict there will always be certain statements that are true, but which you can never prove. They are undecidable.

This behavior shows up in physics as well.
It makes the spectral gap for electrons unsolvable.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.18983

Quote:

For a finite chunk of 2D lattice, however, the computation always ends in a finite time, leading to a definite answer. At first sight, therefore, the result would seem to have little relation to the real world. Real materials are always finite, and their properties can be measured experimentally or simulated by computer.

But the undecidability ‘at infinity’ means that even if the spectral gap is known for a certain finite-size lattice, it could change abruptly — from gapless to gapped or vice versa — when the size increases, even by just a single extra atom. And because it is “provably impossible” to predict when — or if — it will do so, Cubitt says, it will be difficult to draw general conclusions from experiments or simulations.

naturalplastic
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18 Feb 2022, 2:50 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:

Um, true. I'll go with true. There, that was easy. To be honest, I might have heard that one before.

It's true...about the fact that it is ...false?

So therefore it must be false.

So it cant be true!

ToughDiamond
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21 Feb 2022, 2:24 am

I'm with Arthur Prior on this one. Every statement implicitly asserts itself to be true, so if the statement explicitly asserts itself to be false, then it's contradicting itself by saying it's both true and false.

kraftiekortie
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21 Feb 2022, 2:30 am

It’s totally ambiguous. Has no meaning without context.

thinkinginpictures
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21 Feb 2022, 6:35 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

It’s totally ambiguous. Has no meaning without context.

It does have a meaning and it does have a context. You clearly haven't read about Gödels Incompleteness Theorem or Quantum Physics.

HighLlama
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21 Feb 2022, 6:46 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:

You clearly haven't read about Gödels Incompleteness Theorem or Quantum Physics.

True!

HighLlama
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21 Feb 2022, 6:48 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:

This sentence is false.

Discuss.

Hard to say, because it doesn't say anything except that it's false. It seems the mind wants to say, "True," because the sentence has no real content...it is false because it is meaningless. Not a "real" or useful sentence.

kraftiekortie
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21 Feb 2022, 7:04 am

So what if I haven’t read quantum physics or Godel’s Theorem. There’s no context which would determine truth or untruth.

ToughDiamond
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21 Feb 2022, 12:30 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

So what if I haven’t read quantum physics or Godel’s Theorem. There’s no context which would determine truth or untruth.

[sarcasm]Shame on all of us here who have presented an opinion on the Liar's Paradox without first figuring out quantum physics and Godel's Theorem.[/sarcasm]
Really, if anybody thinks there's anything in that stuff to definitively refute the view that the Liar's Paradox is ambiguous or self-contradictory, let them have the courtesy to explain the proof simply and clearly. Why should we do all that hard work for them?

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21 Feb 2022, 1:23 pm

Yawn, Skip All the HiStory
From Before And Understand
That At Essence All Symbols

Humans Create Never
Fully Reflect, Alone,
'The Essence,'

Those Symbols
Co-Created Are
Intended to Portray;

So In ThiS Way; Yes, Every
Human Symbol That Attempts
To Express Essence Is Incomplete And
A Lie ThiS Way; Yes, Every Language, Every Story,
Every Word, Letter; Yes, And Overall Symbol Is Only

An Approximation

of Essence Therefore

At Least in Part All Abstract
Human Constructs Are Idol
Lies This Way As Truly What We
Individually Feel and Sense is Our
Own Multi-Uni-Verse Truths That

No One Else, Alone, Has the Power to
Change if We Do Master The Truth iN LiGHT
of How We Feel and Sense For Real Within Now Eternally So

Yes Let's 'Turn The Beat Around' As See How Human Abstract
Constructs Advantage Us This Way As Well; While It's True 'The Flesh'
Never Completely Becomes 'The Word' As Far as All Human Abstract Constructs/
Symbols We Co-Create Come and Go; What We Are Able to Do is At Least Partially

Upload

Part of
Our Living
Organic Souls
Into Those Abstract
Constructs We Co-Create

And Send Them Around the
World Where 'Beam me Up Scotty'

Is No Longer Just A Myth in A Science
Fiction Show; Where We Become Avatars
And As Long As "Servers" Continue to Serve Us
in Some Way As "KC And The Sunshine Band" Dances

And Sings, Still On Vinyl Albums And Picture Covers;
We aRe Still Able at Least in Some Way Able to "Get Down Tonight"

And Still Get Up
And Touch

Humankind

in Some way

After Our Physical

Bodies Are Dead; Of Course
Unless Someone Isn't An Empath;

And Cares About Other Folks As Much
or More Than 'They'; This Whole Monologue/

Diatribe Is Still Dead, And Meaningless to Them
As Selfish Does What Selfish Is Naturally too; It Just

Dies Alone

With Love
LiVinG on For Real
Yep Still iNHaLinG Peace
THiS Way Exhaling Love

With Still Nude Pics of 'Madonna'
Online Sure the Modern 'Mary Magdalene' Version too...

THere Are So Many Ways to LiVE ON Now if Ya Really Wanna
Add A Verse to Someone Else's MuLTi-UNiVeRSE For Real Again

As Long
As 'Servers'
Serve 'This New Agey Way'...

And at Least in ParT, THiS iS No Lie...

As It's True, 'Donald Trump' With Little
to No Organic Soul; Not Much Different Than Old
Pharaohs May Hire Artisans to Stamp the Initials
Of His Given Abstract Construct Name on Golden Towers

Yet What Goes Is the
Same As What Is

A Dude Who is
So Far From

Naked, Enough,
Whole, Complete to

Give Anything of Lasting
Value to Build Another Mountain of Human Love...

Caring, Healing, Giving, Sharing, Does As Love Does
or Does Not, Now and Then...

Keeping in Mind
And R E A LitY
NoW All i am FoR NOW
HeaR is LetterS oN A Page...

And Another Paradox is Will
'You' See More of My Soul in
These Symbols Than FlesH and Blood me...

It's True That's Never Up to ONLY me; Yet
i Am What i Am;
These Words For

Real too...

Hmm...

Interesting
Paradox of
Truth iN DarK
And Lies iN LiGHT iNDeeD..

-Rod Serling

~Yet Not A
Fictional
Character From Before;

Metaphors Are Neither All True
or False; Yes, Words, All Words
And Other Symbols Relating Essence
Are Only Vehicles and Vessels of TRuTH And

Lies iN DarK Thru LiGHT;

Navigating, The
Great Unknown
of Known Indeed..

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