Page 1 of 2 [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Texasmoneyman300
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,319
Location: Texas

11 Jun 2023, 11:19 pm

I heard that Christian Scientists dont have to send proof to the government to get social security disability benefits. Also I heard that Christian Science Practitioners can write sick notes to get people out of work and prolly school too despite having no medical education. I read that Mary Baker Eddy who was the founder of the Christian Science church instructed Practitioners to charge the same for their treatment as actual medical doctors. Also the Christian Scientists have their own nursing homes that get paid with taxpayer dollars through medicare.

I dont think these nursing homes have any actual doctors and real nurses in them.I learned that Christian Scientists can get medical care if it does not offend their conscious. Christian Science was a hip religion in Hollywood in the early part of the 20th Century much like Scientology was in the 80's and 90's and 2000's. I learned a lot of this information on youtube and other sites. It was quite interesting.

Note:I dont mean scientists like geologists who happen to be Christian....this is a actual religion called Christian Science.I am upset that they dont have to prove they are disabled to get on disability.This is just what I heard.I tried researching it but I was not able to confirm it.I dont understand why a few religions get even more protection and benefits under federal law than what all the other religions get.
Also Christian Science Practitioners dont have to pay into Social Security and Medicare with their income from their religious
medical treatments.Christian Scientists have their own nursing school but Christian Science nurses are nowhere near the level of regular nurses. I hear they dont even take anatomy classes.



kitesandtrainsandcats
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2016
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,965
Location: Missouri

11 Jun 2023, 11:37 pm

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Also Christian Science Practitioners dont have to pay into Social Security and Medicare with their income from their religious medical treatments.

Quote:
I tried researching it but I was not able to confirm it.


As a 60 year old (this month) adult with experience dealing with Social Security I knew how to find references in mere moments:

https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/ha ... -1130.html
and
https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/ha ... -1131.html


_________________
"There are a thousand things that can happen when you go light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good."
Tom Mueller of SpaceX, in Air and Space, Jan. 2011


Texasmoneyman300
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,319
Location: Texas

11 Jun 2023, 11:46 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Also Christian Science Practitioners dont have to pay into Social Security and Medicare with their income from their religious medical treatments.

Quote:
I tried researching it but I was not able to confirm it.


As a 60 year old (this month) adult with experience dealing with Social Security I knew how to find references in mere moments:

https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/ha ... -1130.html
and
https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/ha ... -1131.html

Oh the references you are talking about dont talk about how Christian Scientists dont have to prove their disabled to get SSI or SSDI or whatever its called.Or at least I did not see it mentioned.However I was able to find how they are exempt from FICA taxes on their practice income through google but not about getting on disability benefits by claiming going to the doctor is against your religion as a Christian Scientist.



kitesandtrainsandcats
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2016
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,965
Location: Missouri

11 Jun 2023, 11:50 pm

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Oh the references you are talking about dont talk about how Christian Scientists dont have to prove their disabled to get SSI or SSDI or whatever its called.


I was just dealing with the income thing. Thanks to my own disability I'm only good for one detail at a time tonight.


_________________
"There are a thousand things that can happen when you go light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good."
Tom Mueller of SpaceX, in Air and Space, Jan. 2011


Texasmoneyman300
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,319
Location: Texas

11 Jun 2023, 11:51 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Oh the references you are talking about dont talk about how Christian Scientists dont have to prove their disabled to get SSI or SSDI or whatever its called.


I was just dealing with the income thing. Thanks to my own disability I'm only good for one detail at a time tonight.

Okay I see.I gotcha.



Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,257
Location: Llareggub

12 Jun 2023, 10:09 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
I heard that Christian Scientists dont have to send proof to the government to get social security disability benefits.


That would surprise me. Qualifying for SSDI is an arduous process, and the burden of proof is on the applicant, to demonstrate that he is incapable of any kind of work. If the applicant doesn't have any doctors or psychologists on his side to write convincing reports, then he isn't going to win. Plus, you need to have paid into social security for a certain number of years to qualify.

Perhaps SSI (Supplemental Security Income), which is managed by the Social Security Administration, and for which one only has to be desperately poor.


Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
I hear they dont even take anatomy classes.


Such classes might lead one into sin.


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,257
Location: Llareggub

12 Jun 2023, 10:18 am

It looks like the Christian Scientists have one loop-hole--they may refuse medical treatments that might make them able to work

https://www.disabilitybenefitscenter.or ... y-benefits

Quote:

When submitting an application for disability benefits it is important to seek a doctor’s assessment and follow his or her treatment recommendations. This includes accepting surgery if that helps to eliminate your medical condition.

Refusal to undergo surgery, unless you have good reason, may mean you are no longer eligible to receive disability benefits. There are a number of acceptable reasons that may support your case for refusing surgery as a treatment option.

Refusing Surgery and Disability Benefits

Everyone has the right to refuse medical treatment and the SSA cannot force you to undergo surgery. However, if a doctor has recommended surgery because it could improve your medical condition and your ability to work and you refuse, the SSA does not have to pay you a disability benefit. The usual rule is that you are required to follow the treatment recommendations from your doctor, or you will not be eligible for a Social Security Disability (SSDI) benefit.

If the recommended treatment includes back surgery, which your orthopedic surgeon believes will treat your back condition successfully and will allow you to return to work, but you refuse to have this recommended surgery, you may find you are no longer eligible for a SSDI benefit. This is because the surgery should restore your health sufficiently that you are able to go back to work to earn an income.

Possible Exceptions for Refusing Surgery

There are some exceptions for not following the prescribed treatment rule which may be any of the following. These are listed below...

...The recommended surgery or the type of surgery is against your religion, such as being a Christian Scientist, so your non-compliance may be excused on that basis; ...


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


Texasmoneyman300
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,319
Location: Texas

14 Jun 2023, 4:58 am

Honey69 wrote:
It looks like the Christian Scientists have one loop-hole--they may refuse medical treatments that might make them able to work

https://www.disabilitybenefitscenter.or ... y-benefits

Quote:

When submitting an application for disability benefits it is important to seek a doctor’s assessment and follow his or her treatment recommendations. This includes accepting surgery if that helps to eliminate your medical condition.

Refusal to undergo surgery, unless you have good reason, may mean you are no longer eligible to receive disability benefits. There are a number of acceptable reasons that may support your case for refusing surgery as a treatment option.

Refusing Surgery and Disability Benefits

Everyone has the right to refuse medical treatment and the SSA cannot force you to undergo surgery. However, if a doctor has recommended surgery because it could improve your medical condition and your ability to work and you refuse, the SSA does not have to pay you a disability benefit. The usual rule is that you are required to follow the treatment recommendations from your doctor, or you will not be eligible for a Social Security Disability (SSDI) benefit.

If the recommended treatment includes back surgery, which your orthopedic surgeon believes will treat your back condition successfully and will allow you to return to work, but you refuse to have this recommended surgery, you may find you are no longer eligible for a SSDI benefit. This is because the surgery should restore your health sufficiently that you are able to go back to work to earn an income.

Possible Exceptions for Refusing Surgery

There are some exceptions for not following the prescribed treatment rule which may be any of the following. These are listed below...

...The recommended surgery or the type of surgery is against your religion, such as being a Christian Scientist, so your non-compliance may be excused on that basis; ...


Oh okay I see.That may be what I was thinking of.



msamilynne
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

Joined: 15 Apr 2024
Age: 51
Gender: Female
Posts: 1
Location: Colorado

15 Apr 2024, 1:47 pm

As a committed student of Christian Science and a cervical stroke survivor who is now quadriplegic, I can tell you without hesitation that Christian Scientists do not get a free pass for disability services or insurance (SSDI).

Yes - a Christian Science Practitioner CAN write a letter for school or work - but applicants for SSDI or other gov't services require the same thing as an atheist, jew, methodist, muslim, baha i, agnostic, presbyterian, pentacostal.

No one is gaming the system. If anything, respectfully, it is much harder as lengthy medical records to "prove" one suffers from one disability or another rarely exist and the cost to acquire them are astronomical.



ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,409

15 Apr 2024, 2:49 pm

So there's no favouritism when it comes to benefits certification, but there is in the special case of refusing medical interventions that would render a person capable of work?

If so, I'm against that morally, and my preferred solution is to universally ditch the requirement for accepting medical interventions. I can't imagine it'll encourage much benefit fraud, and on the rare occasion that a person is so desperate for benefits that they make themselves ill by refusing treatment, compassion dictates that you don't leave them to starve. My solution would also stop the practice of forcing potentially harmful medical interventions on people who are afraid of them. I'm against the practice of doing that just to prop people up so they can work for an employer. It might become more of an issue in future because methods for cheaply and regularly determining who's taking their tablets and who isn't are being developed. Currently I think a lot of people accept strong and dodgy psych meds but only take them if a blood test or whatever is coming up.



Texasmoneyman300
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,319
Location: Texas

16 Apr 2024, 8:32 pm

msamilynne wrote:
As a committed student of Christian Science and a cervical stroke survivor who is now quadriplegic, I can tell you without hesitation that Christian Scientists do not get a free pass for disability services or insurance (SSDI).

Yes - a Christian Science Practitioner CAN write a letter for school or work - but applicants for SSDI or other gov't services require the same thing as an atheist, jew, methodist, muslim, baha i, agnostic, presbyterian, pentacostal.

No one is gaming the system. If anything, respectfully, it is much harder as lengthy medical records to "prove" one suffers from one disability or another rarely exist and the cost to acquire them are astronomical.

One thing I do know is that Christian Science students dont have to pay FICA taxes for social security and medicare out of their practice income.I think this is due to conscious objection.Its even on the social security website that yall can be exempt from FICA taxes for religious reasons.



Texasmoneyman300
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,319
Location: Texas

16 Apr 2024, 10:43 pm

msamilynne wrote:
As a committed student of Christian Science and a cervical stroke survivor who is now quadriplegic, I can tell you without hesitation that Christian Scientists do not get a free pass for disability services or insurance (SSDI).

Yes - a Christian Science Practitioner CAN write a letter for school or work - but applicants for SSDI or other gov't services require the same thing as an atheist, jew, methodist, muslim, baha i, agnostic, presbyterian, pentacostal.

No one is gaming the system. If anything, respectfully, it is much harder as lengthy medical records to "prove" one suffers from one disability or another rarely exist and the cost to acquire them are astronomical.

I read from the link that yall can opt out of medical procedures that would make yall healthy enough to work if the medical actions are against yalls religion.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,912
Location: Stendec

17 Apr 2024, 8:00 pm

msamilynne wrote:
No one is gaming the system.
And wealthy people have blue blood.


:roll:


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 15,462
Location: United Kingdom

18 Apr 2024, 5:49 am

Fnord wrote:
msamilynne wrote:
No one is gaming the system.
And wealthy people have blue blood.


:roll:


Why would somebody healthy game the system in most cases?

Disability benefits usually correlate to a life of relative poverty. The benefits are usually worth a lot less than even a paid, full-time job at minimum wage, at least in Europe.

That might be a bit different in certain US states, I would imagine?

In any case, I don't think many people would choose such a life, unless they genuinely had health issues affecting their ability to work.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,912
Location: Stendec

18 Apr 2024, 6:04 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
Fnord wrote:
msamilynne wrote:
No one is gaming the system.
And wealthy people have blue blood.
Why would somebody healthy game the system in most cases?
For the money, of course.  Sure, it isn't enough to raise a family on, but it is still 'free' money.  Same for any collateral services the government might provide.  And if you can present yourself as a different identity in different jurisdictions, the cash and bennies increase.

I learned how to 'game' the system while I was homeless (not that I would ever scam the government . . . nosireebob!), so working as a day laborer kept me going long enough to get things straightened out before I enlisted in the military.

Gaming the system happens; but I guess some people have to experience it first-hand before they can believe it.


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


Texasmoneyman300
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,319
Location: Texas

20 Apr 2024, 12:01 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
So there's no favouritism when it comes to benefits certification, but there is in the special case of refusing medical interventions that would render a person capable of work?

If so, I'm against that morally, and my preferred solution is to universally ditch the requirement for accepting medical interventions. I can't imagine it'll encourage much benefit fraud, and on the rare occasion that a person is so desperate for benefits that they make themselves ill by refusing treatment, compassion dictates that you don't leave them to starve. My solution would also stop the practice of forcing potentially harmful medical interventions on people who are afraid of them. I'm against the practice of doing that just to prop people up so they can work for an employer. It might become more of an issue in future because methods for cheaply and regularly determining who's taking their tablets and who isn't are being developed. Currently I think a lot of people accept strong and dodgy psych meds but only take them if a blood test or whatever is coming up.

I just heard that the Christian Scientists have carved out a loophole in federal law saying a practitioner can write a disability certificate for someone and that it would carry the same weight as a doctor and the Christian Scientist would get benefits.I heard that in a video so just be sure to take it with a grain of salt.I heard a lot of times they dont even believe the medical conditions exist but that seems outlandish to me.