You may be a Communist if . . .

Page 12 of 15 [ 238 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,668
Location: Right over your left shoulder

04 Aug 2023, 12:16 am

Nades wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Fnord wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

I know a communist who lives in China, who is deeply critical of China's "communism". I wonder where Nades thinks they should move.

They could move to the Philippines, where Communism is openly criticized for its violence and other abuses.

Sounds like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Also, why should they leave their homeland when they can work to improve it? Just because you fled your homeland rather than working to improve it, doesn't mean that's what most people desire.

Wouldn't it be insinuating that communism perhaps never works out all that well considering every single communist nation that has ever been around seems to be, or have been hell holes? I'm sure they started out with nobel intentions with many of them but those intentions soon became lost........just look at the comments on this thread as to what some members want to do to people who own capital while simultaneously disliking authoritarianism.

Making ones bed and sleeping in it comes to mind. If property seizing and jailing people for owning capital is OK with many communists, then what hang ups do they have about moving to an authoritarian country with dodgy human rights? It's a legitimate question and not a cop out. You said they have their own problems but fail to elaborate.

You seem to think that because someone rejects one portion of what you consider basic rights that they can't possibly consider other rights very important.

It all seems like bad faith attempts at dunking on your straw-communists, rather than to actually understand anything. It appears like you'd rather condescendingly lecture about what you feel your opponents ought to believe rather than actually try to understand different perspectives.

There's no value to seriously engaging with someone who's not participating in the discussion in good faith, which is to say I have no intentions of elaborating my positions significantly. I'm treating you like a troll.

_________________
there’s no both sidesing a genocide, either you're against it or you're condoning it
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う

Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1933
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,829
Location: wales

04 Aug 2023, 2:12 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Nades wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Fnord wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

I know a communist who lives in China, who is deeply critical of China's "communism". I wonder where Nades thinks they should move.

They could move to the Philippines, where Communism is openly criticized for its violence and other abuses.

You seem to think that because someone rejects one portion of what you consider basic rights that they can't possibly consider other rights very important.

I object to people being jailed without bond for making a profit and also property seizing. These are not what I "consider" basic rights, they are basic rights.

As I mentioned many pages ago with a short list of what communists often are, human rights breachers are one of them. If communists as a whole are happy to moot out very heavy handed punishments just for the "crime" of profiting, then chances are they will be inclined to abuse people in other ways via beatings, shootings, family disappearances and the usual stuff that pans out in communist nations. These other problems you mention current communists countries have is actually just communists doing what they do best and have a long track record of doing.

I still don't understand why such places are not appealing as places of residence for westernised Communists.

.

nominalist
Supporting Member

Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,740
Location: Lower Rio Grande Valley of Texas (born in NYC)

05 Aug 2023, 7:00 pm

Nades wrote:

If communists as a whole are happy to moot out very heavy handed punishments just for the "crime" of profiting, then chances are they will be inclined to abuse people in other ways via beatings, shootings, family disappearances and the usual stuff that pans out in communist nations.

That is an illogical statement. The point of eliminating capitalism, and enforcing that elimination, is to protect the vulnerable.

_________________
Mark A. Foster, Ph.D. (retired tenured sociology professor)
36 domains/24 books: http://www.markfoster.net
Emancipated Autism: http://www.neurelitism.com
Institute for Dialectical metaRealism: http://dmr.institute

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,668
Location: Right over your left shoulder

05 Aug 2023, 8:00 pm

Nades wrote:

I object to people being jailed without bond for making a profit and also property seizing. These are not what I "consider" basic rights, they are basic rights.

Muh rent-seeking.

_________________
there’s no both sidesing a genocide, either you're against it or you're condoning it
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,953
Location: Stendec

06 Aug 2023, 6:16 am

You may be a Communist if you believe...

... Anyone, even a complete stranger, who wins the lottery automatically owes you a "fair share" of the winnings.

... Anyone failing to share their lottery winnings with you is stealing from you.

... Anyone who succeeds in life has somehow cheated the system.

... Anyone who succeeds in life did so by oppressing and stealing from those who failed in life.

... Robbing from the rich and keeping it for yourself is a perfectly logical and moral thing to do.

_________________

No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.

Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1933
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,829
Location: wales

06 Aug 2023, 8:14 am

nominalist wrote:

Nades wrote:

That is an illogical statement. The point of eliminating capitalism, and enforcing that elimination, is to protect the vulnerable.

You are still alluding to doing so with force and intimidation though. Many have a novel idea of who the "vulnerable" are too.

Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1933
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,829
Location: wales

06 Aug 2023, 10:59 am

Fnord wrote:

They also hate it when other people make "unearned income" but also want it themelves.

nominalist
Supporting Member

Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,740
Location: Lower Rio Grande Valley of Texas (born in NYC)

06 Aug 2023, 3:55 pm

Nades wrote:

You are still alluding to doing so with force and intimidation though. Many have a novel idea of who the "vulnerable" are too.

That is your interpretation of what I am saying. I said nothing about force and intimidation. The closest I came to that was arresting capitalists. That is logical action in a communist society.

nominalist
Supporting Member

Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,740
Location: Lower Rio Grande Valley of Texas (born in NYC)

06 Aug 2023, 3:57 pm

Fnord wrote:

You may be a Communist if you believe...

... Anyone, even a complete stranger, who wins the lottery automatically owes you a "fair share" of the winnings.

Not true. You are confusing personal property (lottery winnings) with private property (capitalism).

Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1933
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,829
Location: wales

07 Aug 2023, 4:13 am

nominalist wrote:

Fnord wrote:

You may be a Communist if you believe...

... Anyone, even a complete stranger, who wins the lottery automatically owes you a "fair share" of the winnings.

Not true. You are confusing personal property (lottery winnings) with private property (capitalism).

Both are personal.

Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1933
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,829
Location: wales

07 Aug 2023, 4:14 am

nominalist wrote:

Nades wrote:

You are still alluding to doing so with force and intimidation though. Many have a novel idea of who the "vulnerable" are too.

That is your interpretation of what I am saying. I said nothing about force and intimidation. The closest I came to that was arresting capitalists. That is logical action in a communist society.

To arrest people for owning capital, you would often have to use force and intimidation.

It's incredibly idealistic to assume people will just hand over life savings in shares, property and businesses. It's not going to happen peacefully.

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,668
Location: Right over your left shoulder

07 Aug 2023, 11:39 am

Nades wrote:

How is that different from now? Do you think liberal states don't feel entitled to use force (if need be) against tax cheats and other financial criminals?

The state also uses violence/threat of violence to protect private property.

All that really changes is how much of a cut of the wealth the state feels entitled to.

Landleeches when they're treated like everyday criminals:

_________________
there’s no both sidesing a genocide, either you're against it or you're condoning it
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う

Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1933
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,829
Location: wales

07 Aug 2023, 11:42 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Nades wrote:

But those are criminals tip toeing their way around the law. What I'm on about is private property being taken completely when nothing illegal has been done.

That is very different.

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,668
Location: Right over your left shoulder

07 Aug 2023, 11:45 am

Nades wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Nades wrote:

But those are criminals tip toeing their way around the law. What I'm on about is private property being taken completely when nothing illegal has been done.

That is very different.

You're aware that laws can be changed, right?

_________________
there’s no both sidesing a genocide, either you're against it or you're condoning it
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う

Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1933
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,829
Location: wales

07 Aug 2023, 11:53 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Nades wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Nades wrote:

But those are criminals tip toeing their way around the law. What I'm on about is private property being taken completely when nothing illegal has been done.

That is very different.

You're aware that laws can be changed, right?

To take private property, shares and so on?

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,668
Location: Right over your left shoulder

07 Aug 2023, 12:03 pm

Nades wrote:

To take private property, shares and so on?

Yes. Have you never heard of expropriation? It's already a thing in liberal economies.

An example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Berlin_referendum

_________________
there’s no both sidesing a genocide, either you're against it or you're condoning it
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う

Page 12 of 15 [ 238 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 Next

Jump to:

You may be a Communist if . . . Post Reply New Topic

You may be a Communist if . . .