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NTs thinking we are doing 'power moves'

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DuckHairback
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28 Nov 2023, 9:17 am

People in general are such a mish-mash of logic and emotional impulse that I have a hard time believing that any more than a tiny minority are playing anything like 3D chess. Most people are barely playing Snap.

But I think we have a hard-wired suspicion of each other that convinces us that others are being strategic and devious. We see outcomes and we try to reverse engineer the steps that led to those outcomes and when you do that the outcome seems like an inevitable result of choices and intent. When often it's just random crap, or people chasing short-term dopamine hits, and some of them get lucky or they don't.

That's what I think.


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29 Nov 2023, 3:16 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Number 3 might be people who make themselves indispensable to their bosses by being everywhere and volunteering to do everything but don't actually do any work. They then get given leadership roles that they are not qualified to hold and promotions they don't deserve.


Oh yes, I've met people like that. A million times in various jobs. The schmoozers always get the best jobs and don't do any work. Those of us who quietly and efficiently get on with the job are ostracised and unpopular.

It's totally upside down.


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KitLily
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29 Nov 2023, 3:21 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
People in general are such a mish-mash of logic and emotional impulse that I have a hard time believing that any more than a tiny minority are playing anything like 3D chess. Most people are barely playing Snap.

But I think we have a hard-wired suspicion of each other that convinces us that others are being strategic and devious. We see outcomes and we try to reverse engineer the steps that led to those outcomes and when you do that the outcome seems like an inevitable result of choices and intent. When often it's just random crap, or people chasing short-term dopamine hits, and some of them get lucky or they don't.

That's what I think.


I agree up to a point but I think narcissism and psychopathy are increasing due to the modern world. People are getting rewarded for chasing power, influence and money so they are doing it more and more.

On a tangent, I found out a while ago that Dutch people don't play Snap and don't even understand the concept. A Dutch friend told me that his English wife had to explain it to him when he moved to England. That freaks me out. I wonder if there are any Dutch people on Wrong Planet to confirm or deny this?


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cyberdad
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29 Nov 2023, 3:31 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
It is said that Clemons Van Metternich (the famous Austrian diplomat of the 19th Century) suffered...a fit of depression... after he learned that "the Russian embassador had just died". Depression because Metternich couldnt figure out what the embassador's....motive...could be.

Motive for dying.

Obviously it was a "powerplay", but how? :lol:


In that era, chess was considered the game of military and political strategists. Thus sometimes you have to sacrifice a player in order to gain the upper hand, I am not 100% sure but I think that might even be the origin of the term "power move"

So in your scenario Metternich might see the death of the Russian ambassador as foul play whereby somebody else was making a power move to get the upper hand.



funeralxempire
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29 Nov 2023, 4:29 pm

KitLily wrote:
I agree up to a point but I think narcissism and psychopathy are increasing due to the modern world.


I suspect the real problem isn't an increase in those conditions, but rather an increase in the number of people labelling all the people they don't get along with as narcissists and psychopaths, largely based on their own poor understandings of the terms as gleaned from pop-psi.


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Benjamin the Donkey
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29 Nov 2023, 11:11 pm

KitLily wrote:
On a tangent, I found out a while ago that Dutch people don't play Snap and don't even understand the concept. A Dutch friend told me that his English wife had to explain it to him when he moved to England. That freaks me out. I wonder if there are any Dutch people on Wrong Planet to confirm or deny this?


What is "Snap"? I'm not Dutch, but I have no idea.


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KitLily
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30 Nov 2023, 7:34 am

funeralxempire wrote:
KitLily wrote:
I agree up to a point but I think narcissism and psychopathy are increasing due to the modern world.


I suspect the real problem isn't an increase in those conditions, but rather an increase in the number of people labelling all the people they don't get along with as narcissists and psychopaths, largely based on their own poor understandings of the terms as gleaned from pop-psi.


Maybe but the platforms given to people now via social media where they can broadcast their views without hindrance, clearly show who are the narcissists.

Plus:
The human population is increasing in leaps and bounds every year so there will be more of every type of person.
Humans have no natural predators anymore so they prey on each other.


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KitLily
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30 Nov 2023, 8:02 am

Benjamin the Donkey wrote:
KitLily wrote:
On a tangent, I found out a while ago that Dutch people don't play Snap and don't even understand the concept. A Dutch friend told me that his English wife had to explain it to him when he moved to England. That freaks me out. I wonder if there are any Dutch people on Wrong Planet to confirm or deny this?


What is "Snap"? I'm not Dutch, but I have no idea.


The game where you match two identical picture cards to each other and yell 'snap!' I think Americans might call it Uno? It's the game parents teach their babies in Britain as their first card game, because it's so easy: you just match two identical picture cards.

It was a shock to me when I learned that about Dutch people, I wonder what their babies' first game is.


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blitzkrieg
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30 Nov 2023, 11:03 am

I think social media has definitely created a lot of narcissists who might not otherwise act so... narcissistic, were they not to use social media/were it not to exist.

I think psychopaths have always existed similarly in any age however. The punishments used to be harsher for criminals in ages gone by though, which might have deterred some psychopaths from committing violent crimes, for example.



MatchboxVagabond
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30 Nov 2023, 1:11 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
I think social media has definitely created a lot of narcissists who might not otherwise act so... narcissistic, were they not to use social media/were it not to exist.

I think psychopaths have always existed similarly in any age however. The punishments used to be harsher for criminals in ages gone by though, which might have deterred some psychopaths from committing violent crimes, for example.

I'm not sure if there's been an increase, but both personality disorders are encouraged by changes in American society in recent decades.



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30 Nov 2023, 1:59 pm

KitLily wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
KitLily wrote:
I agree up to a point but I think narcissism and psychopathy are increasing due to the modern world.


I suspect the real problem isn't an increase in those conditions, but rather an increase in the number of people labelling all the people they don't get along with as narcissists and psychopaths, largely based on their own poor understandings of the terms as gleaned from pop-psi.


Maybe but the platforms given to people now via social media where they can broadcast their views without hindrance, clearly show who are the narcissists.


Typically they're the ones labelling all the people they don't get along with as narcissists and psychopaths.

It's been a rule of thumb that has served me well.


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KitLily
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30 Nov 2023, 2:50 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
I think social media has definitely created a lot of narcissists who might not otherwise act so... narcissistic, were they not to use social media/were it not to exist.

I think psychopaths have always existed similarly in any age however. The punishments used to be harsher for criminals in ages gone by though, which might have deterred some psychopaths from committing violent crimes, for example.


Yes that is a good distinction and very likely.

I read that humans must have been generally co-operative since we evolved, rather than competitive and selfish, or we wouldn't still be here now. But it looks like competitiveness and selfishness are now increasing.


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KitLily
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30 Nov 2023, 2:51 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
KitLily wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
KitLily wrote:
I agree up to a point but I think narcissism and psychopathy are increasing due to the modern world.


I suspect the real problem isn't an increase in those conditions, but rather an increase in the number of people labelling all the people they don't get along with as narcissists and psychopaths, largely based on their own poor understandings of the terms as gleaned from pop-psi.


Maybe but the platforms given to people now via social media where they can broadcast their views without hindrance, clearly show who are the narcissists.


Typically they're the ones labelling all the people they don't get along with as narcissists and psychopaths.

It's been a rule of thumb that has served me well.


Sorry *who* is labelling? I've lost track. Do you mean those broadcasting their views are labelling?


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funeralxempire
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30 Nov 2023, 2:58 pm

KitLily wrote:
Sorry *who* is labelling? I've lost track. Do you mean those broadcasting their views are labelling?


One will encounter people who are quick to insist all the people they're incapable of getting along with are narcissists or psychopaths or similar.

Personally, I consider that trait to be a giant red flag about that person, not the people they insist are bad.


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DuckHairback
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30 Nov 2023, 3:04 pm

KitLily wrote:
I read that humans must have been generally co-operative since we evolved, rather than competitive and selfish, or we wouldn't still be here now. But it looks like competitiveness and selfishness are now increasing.


Increasing as a response to the way we've constructed our society, I'd say. I doubt we're actually any less co-operatives when we need to be. The trouble is that we don't need to be. In fact, we're encouraged to be competitive and selfish.

But I agree with funeralxempire that it's a mistake to label people as narcissists or psychopaths because it's like drawing a line under them - you don't need to know anything else about them at point, you can just write them off. Competitive and selfish behaviour can make people appear that way, if you don't care to look deeper.


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30 Nov 2023, 6:17 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Personally, I consider that trait to be a giant red flag about that person, not the people they insist are bad.


I don't. That said, I think today's society doesn't create more psychopaths or narcissists but reward these traits more. Especially when it comes to women by reframing it as "strong women", "powerful women" or "a woman with a strong will". People that are kind or empathic are seen as "weak".


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